Preview RND 17 - Carlton v Geelong Sat Jul 10th 4.35PM @ MCG - Team Post #419

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*The numbers referenced below are all from Footywire in the AFL stats app for 21 season up to round 15

Geelong are pushing for a top4 finish and Carlton is a mathematical chance of making 8 OR finishing bottom 4. Despite the difference in ladder positions across a majority of statistics captured by footywire both sides are remarkably similar.

eg: marks, scoring shots, tackles, (Carlton 53 V Geelong 56) frees for and against, contested possessions (G139 V C135), marks inside 50, stoppage clearances, disposals per goal disposals per scoring shot, turnovers, intercepts and even tackles inside 50….so there is ample evidence to suggest that the teams match up fairly evenly in most measures which may or may not come as a surprise to people…

There is no doubt though that Geelong seek to play a higher possession game and this is one difference between the team’s game style.

In possession, Geelong average 225 kicks per game V Carlton 224 looks similar until we see that Geelong have a kick to handball ratio of 1.4 versus 1.7 for Carlton – so no surprises to see that Geelong handball more 164 V 130 which leads to them also averaging 40 more disposals power game ( 390 V 353) Geelong look for players in space and find these players more often than Carlton does uncontested possession numbers ( 244 V 210) and those uncontested possessions hurt opposition over the course of 4 quarters because they are effective – they go into next weeks game with 16% better effective disposal score ( 290 V 250)

How can teams that measure fairly evenly across the majority of statistics achieve remarkably different ladder positions? The answer should come as no surprise to anyone.

Geelong are amongst only 5 teams that have had less than 1000 points scored against them sp far this year, Geelong are #5 ( 989) in the 14 games of the ’21 season – and the other teams are all in the top5 in ladder position. Meanwhile, Carlton have had 1274 scored against them after the same number of games – placing Carlton’s defensive capability at #17 in the competition. As for total points scored Geelong are ranked #3 so far this season and Carlton is ranked #10.

I’m guessing that making finals is going to be pretty difficult if you are neither top 8 in scoring ( despite attacking game plan) and bottom two for defensive outcomes. However, the fact that Carlton is still in the race for a finals spot – shows how close so many (non real contenders) are, in terms of on field performance goes. I think it is becoming more clear each week that any team on any day can beat any other. The clear difference between the sides so far this year is in defensive performance – in fact the clearest differentiator between any top side(s) and any non top4-6 side in the competition is points scored against.

Teague announced to the AFL world (back in Feb ‘20) that he planned to make Carlton into an attacking force in the competition and a delight to watch – supporters would be enjoying an entertaining brand of football and com to games expecting to be entertained.

Well, the evidence this year (and every year) shows that defence wins games and to the extent that supporters prefer to enjoy a win as opposed to an entertaining game the whole coaching/game plan/ player motivation and mind set has delivered predictable results so far…

All that said, it seems that the coach and team are aware of the defensive issue(s) at Carlton and we have heard for months now that both coaches and players are working as hard as they can to improve this aspect of the game. Perhaps the Football review currently under way is testament to the inability of the coaching group to implement a more competitive each way balanced game style – ther eis improvement to be made in both areas attack and defence.

The game is certainly winnable for Carlton – but only if the defensive effort lifts considerably over 4 quarters – about 4-5 goals worth – Geelong are no longer the unbeatable side they were years ago. What they are is predictable, hardworking and above average in execution of basic skills.

Go Blues.
 

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Out: Casboult, Martin and Newnes
In: Williams, Honey and Ramsey

Can't see why Newnes survives over Williamson and Fog. Both have more up side and contributed about the same vs Freo.

We don't need a back up Ruckman. Especially vs Geelong.

Martin isn't near AFL ready at the moment.

Honey and Ramsey deserve a run
 
Out: Casboult, Martin and Newnes
In: Williams, Honey and Ramsey

Can't see why Newnes survives over Williamson and Fog. Both have more up side and contributed about the same vs Freo.

We don't need a back up Ruckman. Especially vs Geelong.

Martin isn't near AFL ready at the moment.

Honey and Ramsey deserve a run

Is Fisher a chance to come back in next week?

If so, barring any injuries, I’d like to see ins as Williams and Fisher.

I believe Cas will not be dropped, but that’s only because we have no one to replace him with. A reasonable 5 minute patch in the last quarter would otherwise not be enough to keep your spot in the team.
 
Out: Casboult, Martin and Newnes
In: Williams, Honey and Ramsey

Can't see why Newnes survives over Williamson and Fog. Both have more up side and contributed about the same vs Freo.

We don't need a back up Ruckman. Especially vs Geelong.

Martin isn't near AFL ready at the moment.

Honey and Ramsey deserve a run
TDK needs a back up ruckman vs everyone atm.

We cannot play without Casboult at CHF to compete otherwise Henderson, Stewart, Henry etc will have a field day intercept marking everything.
 
*The numbers referenced below are all from Footywire in the AFL stats app for 21 season up to round 15

Geelong are pushing for a top4 finish and Carlton is a mathematical chance of making 8 OR finishing bottom 4. Despite the difference in ladder positions across a majority of statistics captured by footywire both sides are remarkably similar.

eg: marks, scoring shots, tackles, (Carlton 53 V Geelong 56) frees for and against, contested possessions (G139 V C135), marks inside 50, stoppage clearances, disposals per goal disposals per scoring shot, turnovers, intercepts and even tackles inside 50….so there is ample evidence to suggest that the teams match up fairly evenly in most measures which may or may not come as a surprise to people…

There is no doubt though that Geelong seek to play a higher possession game and this is one difference between the team’s game style.

In possession, Geelong average 225 kicks per game V Carlton 224 looks similar until we see that Geelong have a kick to handball ratio of 1.4 versus 1.7 for Carlton – so no surprises to see that Geelong handball more 164 V 130 which leads to them also averaging 40 more disposals power game ( 390 V 353) Geelong look for players in space and find these players more often than Carlton does uncontested possession numbers ( 244 V 210) and those uncontested possessions hurt opposition over the course of 4 quarters because they are effective – they go into next weeks game with 16% better effective disposal score ( 290 V 250)

How can teams that measure fairly evenly across the majority of statistics achieve remarkably different ladder positions? The answer should come as no surprise to anyone.

Geelong are amongst only 5 teams that have had less than 1000 points scored against them sp far this year, Geelong are #5 ( 989) in the 14 games of the ’21 season – and the other teams are all in the top5 in ladder position. Meanwhile, Carlton have had 1274 scored against them after the same number of games – placing Carlton’s defensive capability at #17 in the competition. As for total points scored Geelong are ranked #3 so far this season and Carlton is ranked #10.

I’m guessing that making finals is going to be pretty difficult if you are neither top 8 in scoring ( despite attacking game plan) and bottom two for defensive outcomes. However, the fact that Carlton is still in the race for a finals spot – shows how close so many (non real contenders) are, in terms of on field performance goes. I think it is becoming more clear each week that any team on any day can beat any other. The clear difference between the sides so far this year is in defensive performance – in fact the clearest differentiator between any top side(s) and any non top4-6 side in the competition is points scored against.

Teague announced to the AFL world (back in Feb ‘20) that he planned to make Carlton into an attacking force in the competition and a delight to watch – supporters would be enjoying an entertaining brand of football and com to games expecting to be entertained.

Well, the evidence this year (and every year) shows that defence wins games and to the extent that supporters prefer to enjoy a win as opposed to an entertaining game the whole coaching/game plan/ player motivation and mind set has delivered predictable results so far…

All that said, it seems that the coach and team are aware of the defensive issue(s) at Carlton and we have heard for months now that both coaches and players are working as hard as they can to improve this aspect of the game. Perhaps the Football review currently under way is testament to the inability of the coaching group to implement a more competitive each way balanced game style – ther eis improvement to be made in both areas attack and defence.

The game is certainly winnable for Carlton – but only if the defensive effort lifts considerably over 4 quarters – about 4-5 goals worth – Geelong are no longer the unbeatable side they were years ago. What they are is predictable, hardworking and above average in execution of basic skills.

Go Blues.
I don’t know what the stats say but we seem to be using handball a lot more in the last two games great Wright up 👍
 
Fog should stay in, given we are playing the Cats

Out: Martin (probably stays in), Newnes ( Neck and neck with Willo, but we need the height back there)

In: Williams, Fisher

Sub Newnes
I thought Newnes had one of his better games took some good marks and was decisive by foot solid mature body in the contest I haven’t been his biggest fan but thought he had a good game
 

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Fog should stay in, given we are playing the Cats

Out: Martin (probably stays in), Newnes ( Neck and neck with Willo, but we need the height back there)

In: Williams, Fisher

Sub Newnes

If we’re going with Weitering, Jones, Plowman, Newman, Williams and Saad in the backline, it might finally be time to unleash Stocker in the middle. Especially if Cripps doesn’t get up from the ankle.
 
Out: Casboult, Martin and Newnes
In: Williams, Honey and Ramsey

Can't see why Newnes survives over Williamson and Fog. Both have more up side and contributed about the same vs Freo.

We don't need a back up Ruckman. Especially vs Geelong.
We do as they got Blicavs and Stanley. But we do not have a back up ruckman right now. Mirkov would have played most likely if he was not injured.
Yeah, Martin has not been fully right to play but the clowns have still played him. By next week maybe he another 15% up to where he needs to be, so would not take him out just when he probably will actually be ready.
 
I am going into this game with the expectation and mindset that we will win.

Hope the players and coaching staff think likewise.

We need for the sake of our credibility in the wider footy community at least that we have to take a hig scalp, especially if we to play finals.

Something Something Yoda, Do or do not. There is no try applies here. No more honourable losses or other patronising efforts if we fall just short.

A win is non-negotiable for me against The Handbags. Been a staunch (some may say too much so) supporter of Coach Teague, I have no doubt we have the cattle to beat The Cats, esp at the G.

Hopefully Kids like Stocker and Dow can build on their very encouraging vein of form.

Cometh the Hour, Cometh the Blues

Carlton by 22 points
 
Wouldn’t bother with guessing changes… there’s always a surprise injury or two late in the week.

Williamson did his job fine. Didn’t look out of place at AFL level unlike earlier in the year.

Might make way for Williams though purely for balance. However he’s the first defender picked next injury… until Kemp’s ready. Aha

No other real changes. Honey, Ramsey and Carroll wouldn’t replace anyone at this stage if we’re trying to win. Still all raw and I’m sure are developing in the VFL.
 
Out: Williamson
In: Williams

Fogarty lucky, but playing against his old mob will lift.

SPS and Casboult also lucky but need Cas for structure and unless Fish is 100% or LOB is deemed ready SPS survives
Geelong are very weak in the ruck department and their backup ruck is a freak athlete

Casboult can’t get shoehorned in this week for structure for that reason and he gives us nothing up front anymore

We looked much more mobile playing with a smaller 2nd ruck last week, need to revert back to it or it’ll cost us IMO
 
7 games remaining

Cats and Port - Likely loses

Saints, GC (home), North, Collingwood, GWS (home)

I'd we go 5 and 2, could we make finals?
 
*The numbers referenced below are all from Footywire in the AFL stats app for 21 season up to round 15

Geelong are pushing for a top4 finish and Carlton is a mathematical chance of making 8 OR finishing bottom 4. Despite the difference in ladder positions across a majority of statistics captured by footywire both sides are remarkably similar.

eg: marks, scoring shots, tackles, (Carlton 53 V Geelong 56) frees for and against, contested possessions (G139 V C135), marks inside 50, stoppage clearances, disposals per goal disposals per scoring shot, turnovers, intercepts and even tackles inside 50….so there is ample evidence to suggest that the teams match up fairly evenly in most measures which may or may not come as a surprise to people…

There is no doubt though that Geelong seek to play a higher possession game and this is one difference between the team’s game style.

In possession, Geelong average 225 kicks per game V Carlton 224 looks similar until we see that Geelong have a kick to handball ratio of 1.4 versus 1.7 for Carlton – so no surprises to see that Geelong handball more 164 V 130 which leads to them also averaging 40 more disposals power game ( 390 V 353) Geelong look for players in space and find these players more often than Carlton does uncontested possession numbers ( 244 V 210) and those uncontested possessions hurt opposition over the course of 4 quarters because they are effective – they go into next weeks game with 16% better effective disposal score ( 290 V 250)

How can teams that measure fairly evenly across the majority of statistics achieve remarkably different ladder positions? The answer should come as no surprise to anyone.

Geelong are amongst only 5 teams that have had less than 1000 points scored against them sp far this year, Geelong are #5 ( 989) in the 14 games of the ’21 season – and the other teams are all in the top5 in ladder position. Meanwhile, Carlton have had 1274 scored against them after the same number of games – placing Carlton’s defensive capability at #17 in the competition. As for total points scored Geelong are ranked #3 so far this season and Carlton is ranked #10.

I’m guessing that making finals is going to be pretty difficult if you are neither top 8 in scoring ( despite attacking game plan) and bottom two for defensive outcomes. However, the fact that Carlton is still in the race for a finals spot – shows how close so many (non real contenders) are, in terms of on field performance goes. I think it is becoming more clear each week that any team on any day can beat any other. The clear difference between the sides so far this year is in defensive performance – in fact the clearest differentiator between any top side(s) and any non top4-6 side in the competition is points scored against.

Teague announced to the AFL world (back in Feb ‘20) that he planned to make Carlton into an attacking force in the competition and a delight to watch – supporters would be enjoying an entertaining brand of football and com to games expecting to be entertained.

Well, the evidence this year (and every year) shows that defence wins games and to the extent that supporters prefer to enjoy a win as opposed to an entertaining game the whole coaching/game plan/ player motivation and mind set has delivered predictable results so far…

All that said, it seems that the coach and team are aware of the defensive issue(s) at Carlton and we have heard for months now that both coaches and players are working as hard as they can to improve this aspect of the game. Perhaps the Football review currently under way is testament to the inability of the coaching group to implement a more competitive each way balanced game style – ther eis improvement to be made in both areas attack and defence.

The game is certainly winnable for Carlton – but only if the defensive effort lifts considerably over 4 quarters – about 4-5 goals worth – Geelong are no longer the unbeatable side they were years ago. What they are is predictable, hardworking and above average in execution of basic skills.

Go Blues.
Perhaps our defence is good enough but can't keep up with the rebound attacks that an offensive game plan throws up.
Think the Adelaide team 2017. They were successful because they scored heavily and in so doing put scoreboard pressure on the opposition. Obviously when you are scoring your opponent are not.

We are simply not efficient enough at scoring yet. Our offensive game plan needs big scores and we rarely do this.
If CC returns to his best, MM acts as the dangerous decoy 3rd tall and players like owies Martin durdin keep improving under Eddie, we have the nucleus of a high scoring team.

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk
 
7 games remaining

Cats and Port - Likely loses

Saints, GC (home), North, Collingwood, GWS (home)

I'd we go 5 and 2, could we make finals?
Could but would be iffy, 6 and 1 yes.

Hearing 1.45 p.m. on Saturday arvo for time. If we keep getting donuts capacity might go up.

No one in reserves yesterday doing enough for a run (but plenty taking good small steps) so probably comes down to Williams and maybe Fisher in not sure who is out.

Will be interesting to see whether Charlie fronts back in the 2's. Would be exciting/nerve racking to see.
 
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