Robert Muir

[steelebottom22]

He is using the new visa platinum victim card

 

[jackcass]

Yes they are one of the more racist and non-inclusive cultures going around. I like your point though, there are so many inconsistencies on how we scrutinise racism and how we hold people and cultures to account. We are a hypocritical society on most topics of importance.

I think racism towards our indigenous people is an issue worth focussing on, it is a fundamental issue and probably our most pressing.

The non-inclusive nature of the Jewish peoples has absolutely zero to do with race or colour. If you're of the Jewish faith it doesn't matter where you're from or the colour of your skin. Hardly surprising that they are so non-inclusive given their persecution over centuries, and the attempted genocide at the hands of the Nazis, and the animosity toward them that continues till this very day.

 

[magpies42]

The non-inclusive nature of the Jewish peoples has absolutely zero to do with race or colour. If you're of the Jewish faith it doesn't matter where you're from or the colour of your skin. Hardly surprising that they are so non-inclusive given their persecution over centuries, and the attempted genocide at the hands of the Nazis, and the animosity toward them that continues till this very day.

It is quite an horrific history. There are however many other people, races and cultures that have been persecuted and discriminated against...in some cases I’d argue worse circumstances.

I think irrespective of the reasons for being non-inclusive, whether its religion or the colour of ones skin segregation and isolating yourself is not the right answer. And it shouldn’t be an approach that Australia as a secular country actively encourages and supports. Could you imagine a society where every aggrieved culture and community sought segregation. It doesn’t help with building understanding, empathy and acceptance of differences. It is divisive, and reinforces racial prejudice. But I do agree culture is history and those scars are carried from generation to generation, albeit reinforced by segregation and focussing too much on the past.

The issues we see within our indigenous communities are analogous to those above, with the exception that segregation is driven by a multitude of factors.

The original post on this topic sought to highlight that we focus on specific challenges but not others, I think the Jewish culture has done a lot of unhelpful things over the last half century...segregation and abuse along racial lines being one of those. I think we should have consistent on this issue across the board.

 

[jackcass]

It is quite an horrific history. There are however many other people, races and cultures that have been persecuted and discriminated against...in some cases I’d argue worse circumstances.

I think irrespective of the reasons for being non-inclusive, whether its religion or the colour of ones skin segregation and isolating yourself is not the right answer. And it shouldn’t be an approach that Australia as a secular country actively encourages and supports. Could you imagine a society where every aggrieved culture and community sought segregation. It doesn’t help with building understanding, empathy and acceptance of differences. It is divisive, and reinforces racial prejudice. But I do agree culture is history and those scars are carried from generation to generation, albeit reinforced by segregation and focussing too much on the past.

The issues we see within our indigenous communities are analogous to those above, with the exception that segregation is driven by a multitude of factors.

The original post on this topic sought to highlight that we focus on specific challenges but not others, I think the Jewish culture has done a lot of unhelpful things over the last half century...segregation and abuse along racial lines being one of those. I think we should have consistent on this issue across the board.

Hmmmm, not sure why you need to run off on tangents. You specifically said that Jews are one of the more racist cultures which is clearly not true. I'm certainly generalising and I'm not saying that every person of Jewish faith is pure. They'd no doubt count racists among their flock. But there are no barriers to joining the Jewish faith based on colour or place of origin. It's a religion. Same for Catholics.

 

[Chameleon75]

Hmmmm, not sure why you need to run off on tangents. You specifically said that Jews are one of the more racist cultures which is clearly not true. I'm certainly generalising and I'm not saying that every person of Jewish faith is pure. They'd no doubt count racists among their flock. But there are no barriers to joining the Jewish faith based on colour or place of origin. It's a religion. Same for Catholics.

Jews do claim to be an ethnoreligous people and have had their issues with racism before. When Ethiopian Jews migrated to Israel under the right of return law, the state administered contraception without their consent as their Jewishness was brought into question.

Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Xxxx66]

I wandered over and had a quick read through this post and just wanted to say how impressed I was with most of the commentary. I think the pies apology was classy and showed their afl leadership.
It' a simple message, acknowledging the sins of the past and getting on with it. No ifs buts or excuses. Classy and did your club proud. The crickets from the other clubs is damming in my view. Well done

 

[76woodenspooners]

I wandered over and had a quick read through this post and just wanted to say how impressed I was with most of the commentary. I think the pies apology was classy and showed their afl leadership.
It' a simple message, acknowledging the sins of the past and getting on with it. No ifs buts or excuses. Classy and did your club proud. The crickets from the other clubs is damming in my view. Well done

To be fair, Woodville West Torrens also issued an unreserved apology ...

... although I guess your point is that it’s only the clubs that were explicitly referenced in the article that have acknowledged it and apologised.

In this age of PR and protecting the brand, it’s easy to be cynical ... which is why I’m holding judgement until I see the outcome of CFC’s investigation (which has much wider scope than Robert Muir)

 

[Xxxx66]

To be fair, Woodville West Torrens also issued an unreserved apology ...

... although I guess your point is that it’s only the clubs that were explicitly referenced in the article that have acknowledged it and apologised.

In this age of PR and protecting the brand, it’s easy to be cynical ... which is why I’m holding judgement until I see the outcome of CFC’s investigation (which has much wider scope than Robert Muir)

I understand your comment, but my view is that the topic is about more than r. Muir. The footy community let down all indigenous players at all clubs including north, richmond etc.
Just a simple acknowledgment would do, no big over compensating gestures required. Just a commitment to get better. The CFC example and leadership cant be faulted here. I will leave your other stuff for you and the members to sort out

 

[76woodenspooners]

... I will leave your other stuff for you and the members to sort out

Appreciate you bringing the thread back on topic

 

[Ricmel]

Moorabbin in the 80s was shocking. There were no saints there at that time. The animal enclosure was a cesspit.

I find it disappointing that its only collingwood which is labeled with a race this issue when it was rife through all clubs during that time.

It is a shame that individual clubs become part of this story.

I was a regular in the animal enclosure at Moorabbin and it was certainly not for the faint hearted and was as good as giving it to opposition players, including indigenous players, as anywhere in the country. Fact is, this sort of abuse was rampant everywhere at every club, Victoria Park simply got called out of a big pack of possibilities.

For me, Pies supporters should not feel this is any sort of commentary on Collingwood. The story is it is just a really powerful statement that crowds need to be aware of the impact they can have on the lives of players and that racial abuse in particular can have extreme outcomes. The fact that the Goodes "thing" happened 40 years later says we still have some way to go.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It is a shame that individual clubs become part of this story.

I was a regular in the animal enclosure at Moorabbin and it was certainly not for the faint hearted and was as good as giving it to opposition players, including indigenous players, as anywhere in the country. Fact is, this sort of abuse was rampant everywhere at every club, Victoria Park simply got called out of a big pack of possibilities.

For me, Pies supporters should not feel this is any sort of commentary on Collingwood. The story is it is just a really powerful statement that crowds need to be aware of the impact they can have on the lives of players and that racial abuse in particular can have extreme outcomes. The fact that the Goodes "thing" happened 40 years later says we still have some way to go.

IMO it’s a shame for society that individual clubs become part of the story.

It’s all too easy for people to turn on their tribalism and write it all off as “Collingwood supporters are this” or “Carlton supporters are that” and so roughly 17 / 18th’s of tribal folks end up missing the point.

But the corollary of that is that 1 / 18th of tribal folks are generally forced to confront the issue and then become better for it. In this case the club is Collingwood (and St Kilda)

If anything good can come out of these things, the Robert Muir episode has had a silver lining for Collingwood. Us supporters got to see our club act swiftly and decisively (and IMO appropriately and with true leadership) in a way that wouldn’t have happened before.

No doubt that was the handiwork of Jodie Sizer, one of our newer board members.

 

[piesaregreat]

A good response by the club
Collingwoods and fans behavior back then was a disgrace the outer at Victoria Park in the eighties was not for the SJW types other clubs were as bad and Moorabin far worse.
Hopefully some other clubs step forward

 

[Scodog10]

Syd Jackson also says he was racially abused as well as discriminated against in society, including some golf courses where “they didn’t let blackfellas on some courses, fair dinkum”. I imagine every indigenous player copped racial abuse from opposition players. Do we apologise to every indigenous player who played against us? Perhaps we could request a public apology from Carlton for the accusations against Lee Adamson by Syd Jackson in 1970. Where does it stop? Or alternatively, where does the club start?

Robert Muir wouldn't be top of my list of indigenous players deserving an apology from the club.

I agree with the general sentiment, but an apology and acknowledgement of past wrongs costs us nothing.

I think though that as a club a more conciliatory gesture should take place to right the multitude of past wrongs. That means that when the next ex footballer steps forward instead of issuing a further apology we point toward whatever that gesture is as our acknowledgment of what we have done and are continuing to do as a club.

As an example we have strong ties with the Chargers and there are a number of private schools in that area so perhaps a non football scholarship program could be established. From that perhaps an internship program could also be setup.

I won’t pretend for a moment that the above example is appropriate or otherwise and we have to look to involve indigenous elders, IMO, but the main thing for me is that I’d like us to for once be ahead of the curve on this issue rather than scrambling to catch up (so long as it doesn’t in any way compromise what we do on field).

 

[mocamagic]

Syd Jackson also says he was racially abused as well as discriminated against in society, including some golf courses where “they didn’t let blackfellas on some courses, fair dinkum”. I imagine every indigenous player copped racial abuse from opposition players. Do we apologise to every indigenous player who played against us? Perhaps we could request a public apology from Carlton for the accusations against Lee Adamson by Syd Jackson in 1970. Where does it stop? Or alternatively, where does the club start?

Robert Muir wouldn't be top of my list of indigenous players deserving an apology from the club.

Agree there should have been an apology from Carlton years ago to Adamson

 

[jackcass]

I agree with the general sentiment, but an apology and acknowledgement of past wrongs costs us nothing.

I think though that as a club a more conciliatory gesture should take place to right the multitude of past wrongs. That means that when the next ex footballer steps forward instead of issuing a further apology we point toward whatever that gesture is as our acknowledgment of what we have done and are continuing to do as a club.

As an example we have strong ties with the Chargers and there are a number of private schools in that area so perhaps a non football scholarship program could be established. From that perhaps an internship program could also be setup.

I won’t pretend for a moment that the above example is appropriate or otherwise and we have to look to involve indigenous elders, IMO, but the main thing for me is that I’d like us to for once be ahead of the curve on this issue rather than scrambling to catch up (so long as it doesn’t in any way compromise what we do on field).

Instead of the Chargers, or perhaps even as well as, I’d like to see us continue our association with the Barkley region. Not as fussed whether they’re footy focused or not. While it might not ultimately deliver NGA players exclusively to Collingwood given the new rules, it does provide a demonstrable commitment. You’d imagine it wouldn’t cost any more than $100-200k a year and fits with the broader community programs we deliver.

 

[Quicky]

For me, this stuff is important, far more important than who is in or out at the selection table, or winning and losing games of footy, or who our senior coach is.

I’m very proud of the club for acknowledging the issue promptly. I reckon that not so long ago it would have been swept under the carpet. We’re better than that. Good to see times have changed.

The statement is good, but I’m very much looking forward to see where it goes. Will it just get acknowledged then forgotten about? Or will the independent report the club has commissioned lead somewhere? Will it acknowledge our sins of the past? I’m optimistic with Jodie Sizer on our board.

So far, so good, but I’m reserving judgement until I see where it leads ...

Where would you like the review to lead to?

 

[Quicky]

Muir was a very violent and angry man.

Having read about the brutality he experienced as a child, at the hands of his father, I can at least understand the anger.

When you think of the abuse he received on the field I can understand the violence he threw around. I could see myself throwing fists in the circumstances, at least a younger me would have.

 

[Quicky]

Really?

I don't think anyone disputes the horrific nature of what went on throughout his life, especially childhood.

But I'm not sure his interaction with Robbie Flower, for example, does anything to harm the 'violent thug' tag.

'Sorry Robbie, I've had a rough life, so I'm going to have to violently assault you without cause'

It's funny we don't perceive Leigh Matthews in the same way. Ones revered, the other villified. The difference is skin deep. It's a double standard.

 

[Pie eyed]

The only way Collingwood can "win" is to take ownership of, and the blame for, all racism, mysogony, sexual discrimination and any other social wrong.

As the club with the largest number of supporters, we obviously will have the largest number of "wrongdoers" and hence must be the most contrite.

 

[Dan Moody]

Robert Muir suffered disgraceful racism on the field, no doubt from Collingwood players and supporters as well.
However, he was a thug on the field that committed some very ordinary acts of violence. This is what he is infamous for, it is hard to deny this with so many acts caught on camera. St.Kilda in general were a fairly dirty club from the mid-late 60's through to the mid 70's, ironically a fair chunk of it during Allan Jeans tenure.
Muir embraced this image when appearing on the Footy Show but is now choosing to claim victim status. I have some sympathy for the disgraceful racism he endured but none at all for his image of a thug.

 

[Len Smith Medallist]

Not sure you can separate the behaviours that Muir exhibited from the treatment he received throughout his life. Collingwood's response is appropriate and the least they could do.

 

[Cyclops]

This stuff is awkward as it hurts to admit the club and society was doing something wrong, but indigenous people have been copping a massive hiding from all points of the compass for centuries. Bucks stand on Goodes, this response, we are doing stuff that's consistent with making good past wrongs. Its not perfect, and you cannot satisfy everyone but we are making sensible steps in the right direction.

The usual fragile snowflake Sam Newman dickhead types will gripe like their nappies are wet, good on them they will grow up one day.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

It's funny we don't perceive Leigh Matthews in the same way. Ones revered, the other villified. The difference is skin deep. It's a double standard.

Going back through the archives here, Quicky - but I think you'll find many perceive Matthews that way. My old man for one.

 

[Quicky]

Going back through the archives here, Quicky - but I think you'll find many perceive Matthews that way. My old man for one.

Yeah it's not going to be true for everyones perceptions. As a rule I reckon one gets perceived mostly as a thug the other a hard man.

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

Robert Muir suffered disgraceful racism on the field, no doubt from Collingwood players and supporters as well.
However, he was a thug on the field that committed some very ordinary acts of violence. This is what he is infamous for, it is hard to deny this with so many acts caught on camera. St.Kilda in general were a fairly dirty club from the mid-late 60's through to the mid 70's, ironically a fair chunk of it during Allan Jeans tenure.
Muir embraced this image when appearing on the Footy Show but is now choosing to claim victim status. I have some sympathy for the disgraceful racism he endured but none at all for his image of a thug.

“Muir embraced this image when appearing on the Footy Show but is now choosing to claim victim status.”

Bit different when you’re on the bones of your arse and your being offered a few thousand to do it.