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Roger Federer is not the GOAT

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In one claim you say graf, evert and Navratilova won their slams in a weaker era, then claim Federer has had an easier era to Serena. I just can't cop that.

Federer 42 slam semis to Serena 34.
Weeks at #1 319 Serena to 302 federer
Titles fed at 92 Serena with 72
 
caesar88 said:
It has nothing to do with gender or rule changes. They have two different fields but they still play the same sport, and Serena has been more winning-est at it than Federer. It’s like saying whose the greater athlete Bolt or Phelps? One’s a beast in water, the other a beast on the track. You can’t compare them so the only measure you can go by is how much they have won. Just like you can’t compare Serena and Federer as they’ve played completely different oppositions their whole careers. But the thing about tennis is it doesn’t matter how you play. If you’re good enough you will win, and Serena’s done that over and over (four more times than Federer.)
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An alien arrives on earth and asks you who the best tennis player on earth is? Your reply?
 

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caesar88 said:
It has nothing to do with gender or rule changes. They have two different fields but they still play the same sport, and Serena has been more winning-est at it than Federer. It’s like saying whose the greater athlete Bolt or Phelps? One’s a beast in water, the other a beast on the track. You can’t compare them so the only measure you can go by is how much they have won. Just like you can’t compare Serena and Federer as they’ve played completely different oppositions their whole careers. But the thing about tennis is it doesn’t matter how you play. If you’re good enough you will win, and Serena’s done that over and over (four more times than Federer.)
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Having played a bit, I watch minimal women’s tennis, frankly bc I find it boring and the range of shot and contrasting styles non existent. It’s basically baseline rallies with minimal touch, court craft, variety of shot or imagination with serve volleying a fossilised form of the game. Serena is a legend no doubt who has over powered her rivals and will be remembered forever but she hasn’t had all time greats pinching slams off her for a decade. She simply can’t play the range of spin and touch Fed and the guys can off either side.

Fed has brought the game and his peers to a new level. Rafa and Novak wouldn’t be what they are without him and they acknowledge it. Fed set a new high bar for an all court , all shot game (he plays the complete range of shots with more skill than anyone before him) and with massively underrated athleticism.

And as much I loved Steffi, she had a wicked slice backhand yes but ran around it 4/5 times to club a forehand. She avoided hitting flat /top spin backhands. Imagine trying to get away with that in the same men’s era of Lendl, Becker, Edberg, courier, Agassi and Sampras etc and you’d win zero slams.

Are we going to say she’s better than Fed based on slams won?
 
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LuckyHawk said:
Why do strong, athletic men need 2 hands to swing a racquet that weighs like a feather? Answer - they haven't got the will or the ability
to develop a decent one handed backhand so they take the easy way out. Play like real men and use one hand for God's sake. Swinging
a racquet one handed should be a rule in tennis. Federer would never have lost to Nadal, Djoker and Murray.
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“I wouldn’t teach my kids a one handed backhand, two hander is more consistent” - Federer; about 6 minutes ago being interviewed by Courier.

Thoughts?
 
Flameboy said:
“I wouldn’t teach my kids a one handed backhand, two hander is more consistent” - Federer; about 6 minutes ago being interviewed by Courier.

Thoughts?
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Yep that’s the practicality of it. It just gives more control, And after him playing against the 2 best double backhands ever in Rafa and Novak it makes sense.

I remember growing up there was resistance, well lack of support or encouragement from parents/ coaches re using 2 hands, even though Borg had just finished his career. Not sure why, just old school thought. I still switch between the two sometimes but predominantly use a double esp when the ball is bouncing high. Though I reckon the single hander is better to hit down the line or as an off return from the deuce court.
 
Flameboy said:
“I wouldn’t teach my kids a one handed backhand, two hander is more consistent” - Federer; about 6 minutes ago being interviewed by Courier.

Thoughts?
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Fed's gone soft! Seriously, he's just looking after his kids. He's right about the two hander being more consistent let alone the power and
ridiculous angles you can get from it. Who knows, his kids might want to play like dad and use one hand, l hope so. The rule needs to be
changed so you can only swing the racquet with one hand and another rule to stop the grunting. Using a two hander requires less footwork,
less precise stroke development and therefore less talent which is why for me Fed is the standout.
Case in point - during the mid 80s pro golfers started anchoring the putter to their chin, chest or even belly to improve their putting and
improve they did. Peter Senior turned into a world beater (at least in Australia) and probably saved himself 6 to 8 shots per tournament
which is huge. Adam Scott won the masters and so on. Last year anchoring was finally banned, took 30 years but the right decision was
made. Tennis authorities need to make a rule change otherwise players will continue to be forced to use a two hander to stay competitive.
l'd much rather go the other way and force players by rule to use the one hander. As it stands now the one hander is nearing extinction
with only a handful of players left using it and that for me is a tragedy.
 
LuckyHawk said:
Thank you for explaining away why mastering a one handed backhand is a far superior achievement than using the ugly two handed
shovel shot. "Mummy, mummy l can't swing my 300 gram racquet properly on the backhand. You're only 6' 5" and 95 kgs son, you'll
need two hands for that one." And l have used both backhands playing junior tennis and naturally found the two hander much easier
to use hence my admiration for the one handers. Call me a traditionalist but the one handed backhand is an elegant and awesome
looking shot and a reminder why Fed and Laver are the greatest.
Pity half your reply focused on being a smart arse and ended up name calling. A lesson no doubt on
how to discredit yourself.
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You overlook the fact that when they start out they are not 6'5" and 95 kegs. For a lot of young kids it's far easier to generate power and accuracy with a two handed backhand. And having started out two handed around age 5 they are hardly likely to move from 10 or more years of development when they hit their mid to late teens.

For what it's worth I vastly prefer a single handed backhand. Few better feelings on the court than ripping a topspin backhand pass. But I can't hit a double hander to save myself.

And for whoever raised Henri Leconte's backhand I'll see your Leconte & raise you a Thomas Muster. A brilliant backhand who seems to be forgotten in these discussions
 
LuckyHawk said:
As it stands now the one hander is nearing extinction
with only a handful of players left using it and that for me is a tragedy.
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I'm a double hander, but absolutely love the single handed backhand. It's a magnificent shot. Hopefully with Dimitrov, thiem, shapovalov going strong the shot stays around. It is dropping off though if you look at players under 24
 

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Go the Biff said:
You overlook the fact that when they start out they are not 6'5" and 95 kegs. For a lot of young kids it's far easier to generate power and accuracy with a two handed backhand. And having started out two handed around age 5 they are hardly likely to move from 10 or more years of development when they hit their mid to late teens.

For what it's worth I vastly prefer a single handed backhand. Few better feelings on the court than ripping a topspin backhand pass. But I can't hit a double hander to save myself.

And for whoever raised Henri Leconte's backhand I'll see your Leconte & raise you a Thomas Muster. A brilliant backhand who seems to be forgotten in these discussions
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True enough for the juniors early on but they are not weened off the two hander by coaches because they don't have to be. Leconte could sizzle his
one hander but don't remember Muster's that well. Vilas had one of the best and Sampras, Edberg and Becker were really good too. l'm happy you
hit a one hander you dinosaur!
 
pepsi said:
I'm a double hander, but absolutely love the single handed backhand. It's a magnificent shot. Hopefully with Dimitrov, thiem, shapovalov going strong the shot stays around. It is dropping off though if you look at players under 24
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Nothing better than watching Stan, Dimitriv, Shapovalov or Fed crunch a backhand winner.
 
LuckyHawk said:
Its an insult to tennis lovers that players need two hands to swing a wand. l didn't realise 95% of tour players are all smarter
than Federer.
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They don't need anything, it provides more control and only a dead set stubborn idiot wouldn't take advantage of it.
 
caesar88 said:
As I said, the “lack of challenge” argument is irrelevant because we’ll never know how Serena and Federer would have gone if they faced different opposition. You can only go off their results which is all that matters in tennis. And Serena’s the most complete player I’ve seen. I don’t even like her really as I find her to be self-obsessed and overly dramatic on court, but there’s never been anything like her in tennis. Best power player I’ve seen, best precision player I’ve ever seen, best athletic player I’ve ever seen.
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Abso;ute no disrespect but nonsense. Utter nonsense. a talented 16 year old boy would beat her.

Take away the wins in a handicap division and what is she? an athlete who wouldn't get a place on the ATP tour.
 

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Funnily enough i played tennis juniors and sporadically play now. My one handed backhand I can dial in much quicker than my forehand which has gone to sh*t.

Thankfully mum hasn't seen me play... the money she spent on lessons...
 
Dhoni Dakurri said:
Federer wins - rinse and repeat. [emoji42].

He’s the closest the world has to God, but Id love to see for once a young gun get past him comprehensively. There is still no sign of regression from him. Its not human.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'd like to see him go on and on, but of course it won't happen, and Nadal looks very strong at present.
Would love to see those 2 repeat what they did on 17.
 
Vdubs said:
I'd like to see him go on and on, but of course it won't happen, and Nadal looks very strong at present.
Would love to see those 2 repeat what they did on 17.
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Totally agree. Whenever fans complain about Fed being around too long or Fed V Nadal being "boring" I often point out that very very soon - very soon - Fed will be gone so we should enjoy every match, every tournament and especially every Federer V Nadal because tennis will almost certainly never ever see such a talent and such a rivalry.

I hope he finals in every event he plays.....that way we get to see more of him before he goes which could be only months away.
 

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