Ross Lyon

[Rors]

My only beef with Ross Lyon is this:

If you're crying poor, please do NOT pose for photos in front of your tennis court! It makes you look like yuppy douchebag!

 

[SaintLex]

His contract worked the other way, it didn't stop him from quitting.
IF a coach wants to leave prior to being sacked, how do you suggest they do it?
While I'm not sure Lyon had his heart in the finals that year, It would have completely destabilised the club to announce it earlier.
He waited until the last game, then gave the club the maximum possible time to find someone else.

Not really. The club and his management were in talks throughout the year, which led to an agreement between the two parties. All we were waiting for was Ross' signature. He should have at least let his management and the club know that he was looking elsewhere so we could suss out other arangements if need be as well.

We were well behind the 8-ball when it came to picking a new coach as it was left to the last minute. A few other teams were also in the market for coaches. Turns out I prefer Watters over Neeld anyway, but we didn't even have a chance to interview him.

It was selfish by Ross. This shit happens though.

 

[sammm]

Ross wanted a 4 year deal (?) earlier in the year and the club procrastinated.

and no wonder we were 0 and 7 would you give a coach a 4 year deal based on that?

 

[Defacto]

Why do people take it so personally?

How many on here have ever gone to their boss and said I am leaving because I need money or have a better offer... before they talked to another employee?

People do it all the time, but just because it happened to us, we all have to have a sook about it. For centuries, people have lined up another job and then resigned. at least he has been consistent. Always said he was a career coach. This may not make some supporters feel all warm and fuzzy, but heck me, the players were behind him 100% and that's all that matters.

Had it been the other way around and he came to us from Freo, we'd be saying what a top bloke he is etc etc.

PS: Had the club not stuffed him around at the start of 2011 we wouldn't be having this discussion. He just took us to 2 years of GF's and the club still had doubts... seriously? That's what happens when admins lose their spine and worry moer about who the coach might be pissing off. Lyon was ready for a rebuild and flagged his intentions to stay by asking for a longer deal. The club blinked and the rest is history.

Even if he doesn't win on Saturday, he will have still proved what a bunch of dicks our club can be.

agree with everything up to the PS part. ross was in debt, not just small debt, but debt to the point of selling your home and then moving in the family, all whilst still having too pay back money the equivalent of very very large home loans. reports are that hey needed 1.5 million up front to pay back money he just borrowed from a st kilda director

he needed the type of coin we would have been reckless to give him after a 0 and 7 start or what ever it was

freo had that coin. the rest if history.

i dont hate him because he left us. i hate him because he joined freo. freo are a soulless franchise. there is so many things wrong with them as a club that i wouldnt know where to begin

 

[sammm]

i don't hate him becuase he left us, i hate him for the sneaky way he left us aand the sh!t of a list he left it in.

 

[VDS66]

and no wonder we were 0 and 7 would you give a coach a 4 year deal based on that?

It seems some supporters make judgements based on short term results.

Let's be logical for a moment...

Yes we were 0-7. Fair enough call. On the flip side we had just played of in the big one the 2 previous years. so do we consider the 0-7 or where we had been over 2009 and 2010? Short term or long term?

As we gained momentum in 2011, Lyon went back his tried and true warriors for one last crack. I doubt he was that stupid to know that the list was ageing and that a rebuild was imminent.

So on that basis, Lyon was correct to want a 4 year deal to ensure that he had the time to rebuild etc and not get sacked during the rebuild (see how Watters is being caned because of said rebuild).

Now here are the 2 unkonwns and anyone who does know is welcome to answer these questions...

Firstly, if the club had said yes to a 4 year deal in April, would Lyon have put pen to paper based on what the club was offering?

Secondly, even if we gave him 4 years, was the money offered by the club to his satisfaction? IE would he have walked anyway?

Now my understanding is that he put talks on hold a few months later. why? Was it because the club stuffed him around? Or did Freo throw an offer to him early in the piece?

Also, when he asked for a new contract, did he sit down with the club and talk through all the forthcoming issues and the rebuild? Did he give them a plan? Because if he was up front about what needed to be done, and the club did not want to face facts, then the club stuffed up big time.

Did Lyon look long term? Did the club look short term and 0-7?

These are answers we need to know.

 

[SaintLex]

To be honest, I've kind of let it go. I just don't want Freo to win next week because of the inevitable Freo/St Kilda comparisons that will occur - we get enough shit as it is. It's stupid and childish and probably irrational, but whatever.

Other than that, i'd like Freo to win their first and it would be good to have a winner that hasn't already won it recently. If i'm being completely rational right now, Ross deserves a premiership. He's a genius coach and probably the best in the league right now.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

My opinion on Lyon is that he has a short shelf-life as a coach and that this will always be the case because:

1. His game-plan is extremely physically and, most importantly, mentally draining on the players. Yes it is really effective but if you don't win it within a short window, good luck because the playing list and coaches will be really drained.

2. As effective as the game plan is, it is not really nuanced. It is prone to being picked apart over a season, or even within a game. Sure you might have a big lead but the players will be stuffed meaning the are susceptible to giving up leads.

Fremantle had better hope they win one this year and maybe next based on the above. I'm sure their fans, like ours were are thinking, "who cares as long as it delivers the ultimate prize." But if it doesn't, and there is every chance it doesn't linked to my two points above, your team will inevitably suffer a nasty fallout with the players losing motivation to carry out their "orders" and coaching staff leaving because they are drained, as well as potentially players acting up when they are outside this regimented structure.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not really. The club and his management were in talks throughout the year, which led to an agreement between the two parties. All we were waiting for was Ross' signature. He should have at least let his management and the club know that he was looking elsewhere so we could suss out other arangements if need be as well.

We were well behind the 8-ball when it came to picking a new coach as it was left to the last minute. A few other teams were also in the market for coaches. Turns out I prefer Watters over Neeld anyway, but we didn't even have a chance to interview him.

It was selfish by Ross. This shit happens though.

Do you really think it wouldn't have leaked out if he'd told them. Right in the middle of the Saints finals ...... though maybe they would have had a coach is leaving win if that had happened.

 

[tbarker]

My opinion on Lyon is that he has a short shelf-life as a coach and that this will always be the case because:

1. His game-plan is extremely physically and, most importantly, mentally draining on the players. Yes it is really effective but if you don't win it within a short window, good luck because the playing list and coaches will be really drained.

2. As effective as the game plan is, it is not really nuanced. It is prone to being picked apart over a season, or even within a game. Sure you might have a big lead but the players will be stuffed meaning the are susceptible to giving up leads.

Fremantle had better hope they win one this year and maybe next based on the above. I'm sure their fans, like ours were are thinking, "who cares as long as it delivers the ultimate prize." But if it doesn't, and there is every chance it doesn't linked to my two points above, your team will inevitably suffer a nasty fallout with the players losing motivation to carry out their "orders" and coaching staff leaving because they are drained, as well as potentially players acting up when they are outside this regimented structure.

Well put Knarks. It is mercenary stuff but if it delivers the ultimate then I would have been happy.

 

[SaintLex]

Do you really think it wouldn't have leaked out if he'd told them. Right in the middle of the Saints finals ...... though maybe they would have had a coach is leaving win if that had happened.

It probably would have leaked, no doubt. But the club would have been in a better position to deal with it.

2011 was a year to forget anyway, despite making the finals. The way I remember it, we weren't really in a position to challenge for a flag and added speculation wouldn't have made that much of a difference. There was speculation anyway, as there always is when a coach/player is yet to re-sign.

Do you really think Ross kept his intentions quiet for the good of the players/club?

 

[Cardio Carl]

End of the day Nettlefold stuffed up, don't blame Ross.

The club i.e. Nettlefold should have locked him away early in season and we would be in a far better place than now. Yes Nettlefold was young and new in the job but other wiser heads should have jumped in.

Good luck Ross and commiseration on such an disgraceful management decision Nettlefold, cant believe your still in that position.

 

[sammm]

End of the day Nettlefold stuffed up, don't blame Ross.

The club i.e. Nettlefold should have locked him away early in season and we would be in a far better place than now. Yes Nettlefold was young and new in the job but other wiser heads should have jumped in.

Good luck Ross and commiseration on such an disgraceful management decision Nettlefold, cant believe your still in that position.

end of the day, ross was sneaky. i keep saying and will always believe that if the team is 0 and 7 and the coach still has 1.5 years left on his contract why in the hell would you offer him another 4 years. wait until the end of the yearthen extend. What would have happened if we had extended his contract and he was 0 & 12 we would look like fools.

 

[VDS66]

And how many games did we win this year?

If you extend based on the fact that you need time to rebuild the list, then no stress IMO. Lyon had a walk out clause so the extra year wasn't really concrete anyway.

I am sure we can go around in circles for the next 10 years about this.

 

[sammm]

And how many games did we win this year?

If you extend based on the fact that you need time to rebuild the list, then no stress IMO. Lyon had a walk out clause so the extra year wasn't really concrete anyway.

I am sure we can go around in circles for the next 10 years about this.

don't worry, everyone will. especialy when lyon wins the grandfinal

 

[Cardio Carl]

end of the day, ross was sneaky. i keep saying and will always believe that if the team is 0 and 7 and the coach still has 1.5 years left on his contract why in the hell would you offer him another 4 years. wait until the end of the yearthen extend. What would have happened if we had extended his contract and he was 0 & 12 we would look like fools.

Yeah, you are right Sam, I mean when you look at his record why the Hell would you offer any 'credits' to a guy with such a pathetic record at our club....who is the fool???

Lyon is the most successful St Kilda coach by percentage of games won, with a 64.5% winning record


Lyon left St Kilda with the best winning percentage of any other Saints coach in the club's history and became the first person to coach the Saints to four consecutive finals series.

2007: 9th
2008: QF
2009: GF
2010: GF
2011: EF

Freo:
2012 : EF
2013 : GF

So in 7 years he has taken his team's to 6 finals and 3 GF (4 on the draw).

Yeah, you would be a fool to sign such a pathetic coach

Tell me a coach who has a better record???

Again, any CEO would have signed him for 4 years mid 2011, let him rebuild and take us to greater glory. Unfortunately Nettlefold was too inexperienced to do this - biggest mistake in our clubs history - sorry.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Lyon is the most successful St Kilda coach by percentage of games won, with a 64.5% winning record

2007: 9th
2008: QF
2009: GF
2010: GF
2011: EF

Freo:
2012 : EF
2013 : GF

Tell me a coach who has a better record???

Try these on for size then:

Norm Smith (Melbourne)

• 1954 2nd
• 1955 1st
• 1956 1st
• 1957 1st
• 1958 2nd
• 1959 1st
• 1960 1st
• 1961 3rd
• 1962 4th
• 1963 3rd
• 1964 1st

Allan Jeans (Hawthorn)

• 1981 6th
• 1982 3rd
• 1983 1st
• 1984 2nd
• 1985 2nd
• 1986 1st
• 1987 2nd
• 1989 1st
• 1990 5th

Or for a coach who was successful at two clubs
Ron Barassi (Carlton & North Melbourne)

• 1965 6th
• 1966 6th
• 1967 3rd
• 1968 1st
• 1969 2nd
• 1970 1st

• 1973 6th
• 1974 2nd
• 1975 1st
• 1976 2nd
• 1977 1st

Tom Hafey (Richmond & Collingwood)

• 1966 5th
• 1967 1st
• 1968 5th
• 1969 1st
• 1970 6th
• 1971 3rd
• 1972 2nd
• 1973 1st
• 1974 1st

• 1977 2nd
• 1978 3rd
• 1979 2nd
• 1980 2nd
• 1981 2nd

 

[VDS66]

I think he was referring to St Kilda coaches?

I am sure that Cahill would also be up there from Pt Adelaide Maggies.

reality is that based on his record alone, Nettlefold should have secured him. How the heck do you let a coach like that go?

 

[Sunshine Saint]

I think he was referring to St Kilda coaches?

I am sure that Cahill would also be up there from Pt Adelaide Maggies.

reality is that based on his record alone, Nettlefold should have secured him. How the heck do you let a coach like that go?

Got that, but thought it worth pointing out that Lyons record is good, but not earth shattering. Didn't hurt to put his coaching record into context. Also Leigh Matthews, David Parkin, Kevin Sheedy, Malthouse etc to join that list.

 

[thomas_m18]

Ross Lyon's journey to senior coaching was never a sure thing


http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-27/lyon-from-cub-to-king

ROSS Lyon will coach in his fourth Grand Final in five seasons on Saturday, but just seven years ago the then assistant coach was flying so far under the radar he was not among the 20 or so candidates initially shortlisted for the St Kilda coaching position.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-27/lyon-from-cub-to-king

Good read on the selection process.

 

[VDS66]

Good article in the Hun today. David Parkin reckons that Lyon did a massive job to get us into 2 GF's given the holes in the list at the time.

 

[Q TRAIN]

if Ross was still at StKilda.
just due to the age of our list we would still be going through a 'rebuilding phase' and may have only finished a couple of spots higher on the ladder anyway.
We wouldnt still be in top 4 contention.
He needed money, we needed to rebuild. Thanks for what you did for us Ross. Now lets all move on

 

[SaintsSeptember]

if Ross was still at StKilda.
just due to the age of our list we would still be going through a 'rebuilding phase' and may have only finished a couple of spots higher on the ladder anyway.
We wouldnt still be in top 4 contention.
He needed money, we needed to rebuild. Thanks for what you did for us Ross. Now lets all move on

He'd be chasing after Eddie Betts and Xavier Ellis we wouldn't have any spare talls and Kosi would be going round again.

 

[Cardio Carl]

Try these on for size then:

Norm Smith (Melbourne)

• 1954 2nd
• 1955 1st
• 1956 1st
• 1957 1st
• 1958 2nd
• 1959 1st
• 1960 1st
• 1961 3rd
• 1962 4th
• 1963 3rd
• 1964 1st

Allan Jeans (Hawthorn)

• 1981 6th
• 1982 3rd
• 1983 1st
• 1984 2nd
• 1985 2nd
• 1986 1st
• 1987 2nd
• 1989 1st
• 1990 5th

Or for a coach who was successful at two clubs
Ron Barassi (Carlton & North Melbourne)

• 1965 6th
• 1966 6th
• 1967 3rd
• 1968 1st
• 1969 2nd
• 1970 1st

• 1973 6th
• 1974 2nd
• 1975 1st
• 1976 2nd
• 1977 1st

Tom Hafey (Richmond & Collingwood)

• 1966 5th
• 1967 1st
• 1968 5th
• 1969 1st
• 1970 6th
• 1971 3rd
• 1972 2nd
• 1973 1st
• 1974 1st

• 1977 2nd
• 1978 3rd
• 1979 2nd
• 1980 2nd
• 1981 2nd

Try these on for size then:

Norm Smith (Melbourne)

• 1954 2nd
• 1955 1st
• 1956 1st
• 1957 1st
• 1958 2nd
• 1959 1st
• 1960 1st
• 1961 3rd
• 1962 4th
• 1963 3rd
• 1964 1st

Allan Jeans (Hawthorn)

• 1981 6th
• 1982 3rd
• 1983 1st
• 1984 2nd
• 1985 2nd
• 1986 1st
• 1987 2nd
• 1989 1st
• 1990 5th

Or for a coach who was successful at two clubs
Ron Barassi (Carlton & North Melbourne)

• 1965 6th
• 1966 6th
• 1967 3rd
• 1968 1st
• 1969 2nd
• 1970 1st

• 1973 6th
• 1974 2nd
• 1975 1st
• 1976 2nd
• 1977 1st

Tom Hafey (Richmond & Collingwood)

• 1966 5th
• 1967 1st
• 1968 5th
• 1969 1st
• 1970 6th
• 1971 3rd
• 1972 2nd
• 1973 1st
• 1974 1st

• 1977 2nd
• 1978 3rd
• 1979 2nd
• 1980 2nd
• 1981 2nd

Are you on drugs?

I'm talking ST kilda coaches

Is it that hard.?????

Anyway looks like Nettlefold had read my post

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Are you on drugs?

I'm talking ST kilda coaches

Is it that hard.?????

Anyway looks like Nettlefold had read my post

Rude as well as narrow in vision. Of course your rant was on Lyon and the fact that he was god like as a coach. The list of others coaches achievements, was to bring you back to reality. Lyon was and is a good coach, but at this stage is far far from a great coach. Is that too hard for you to understand??