Ross Lyon

[Benji McPherson]

Man, this thread has certainly kicked on since i last checked!

I guess the takeaway from all of this is that Ross Lyon can't coach these tight clincher games. Saints had the best list by far during the late 2000s and I think it is pretty clear that Ross cost them.

Count yourselves lucky he took the money and ran. Now he's Freo's problem. You really have to wonder whether his financial problems back in the day are emblematic of his approach

 

[Nathanmmx]

Armitage had been recalled for round 21 and 22.
He got 21 disposals in round 22.
Eddy never got 21 disposals EVER.

Given how Raph Clarke always got a game under him, and was delisted after Ross left I think it is no surprise that the tosser had his favorites for inexplicable reasons.

 

[Benji McPherson]

The real pity is that you only get a list like St Kilda's in 2009/10 once a generation if you're lucky. Riewoldt, Kosi, Del Santo, Lenny, Montagna, Milne ... all together in their prime. A perfect storm of talented youth and high draft picks.

The Ross Lyon gameplan probably cost you a premiership.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The real pity is that you only get a list like St Kilda's in 2009/10 once a generation if you're lucky. Riewoldt, Kosi, Del Santo, Lenny, Montagna, Milne ... all together in their prime. A perfect storm of talented youth and high draft picks.

The Ross Lyon gameplan probably cost you a premiership.

The list builders were a bit off in the timing.
Would have been good to have players like Hamil and Gehrig in with them.

 

[mysainters]

People forget gwilt was an emergency in 2009 as well...

Yes Armo had returned, had a strapped knee, but was playing fine at the time.

If someone can play off a drip or with broken bones, and returning from incidents involving bowling balls, Armo and Gears were unlucky IMO.

Bakes also admitted he should of never played in the replay

 

[VDS66]

The list builders were a bit off in the timing.
Would have been good to have players like Hamil and Gehrig in with them.

We did... GT cost us 2 premierships.

 

[Nathanmmx]

We did... GT cost us 2 premierships.

GT was responsible for Gavin Wanganeens kick out of his ass in the 04 prelim was he?

 

[VDS66]

GT was responsible for Gavin Wanganeens kick out of his ass in the 04 prelim was he?

and Lyon was responsible for the bad bounce, Scarlett and of course all our players missing easy shots on goal, was he?

Same logic... stupid logic.

 

[Nathanmmx]

and Lyon was responsible for the bad bounce, Scarlett and of course all our players missing easy shots on goal, was he?

Same logic... stupid logic.

You seriously suggesting that watching our team bore people and the opposition to sleep just to fall at the last hurdle every time was better then watching a team play end to end footy and racking up cricket scores? Get real. GT may not have been a visionary or much into defense but if Carlton scores 88 on us and we score 196 who really cares much about playing defense then.

Frankly I think if GT took charge of GWS and Lyon took charge of Melbourne the results both coaches would get would be about the same. But yet 0-4 Lyon is like some master super greatest coach ever right? And Thomas cost us premierships lol.

 

[VDS66]

You seriously suggesting that watching our team bore people and the opposition to sleep just to fall at the last hurdle every time was better then watching a team play end to end footy and racking up cricket scores? Get real. GT may not have been a visionary or much into defense but if Carlton scores 88 on us and we score 196 who really cares much about playing defense then.

Frankly I think if GT took charge of GWS and Lyon took charge of Melbourne the results both coaches would get would be about the same. But yet 0-4 Lyon is like some master super greatest coach ever right?

Actually, I prefer to actually make grand finals.

GT didn't rate fitness services and we had an horrific run of injuries. That's what cost us 2 flags mate. He insisted on playing and destroying the collective careers of X, Ball and Kosi. GT was in charge of everything... remember?

we lost 2004 when knob head supporters ran on the ground after G kicked his 100th and totally stopped our steam roller momentum.

Granted that he had the players behind him. Maybe you should ask a few players who the better coach was?

Funny that had we won a flag under Lyon, we would be talking about him as a genius. But we didn't and he left... so now all the I Told You So cabbages come out and try and rewrite history.

And you might wanna ask Blight how many flags an all out attack game plan won him with Geelong.

Still, if all you want is to be entertained on a weekly basis without ever winning a flag, then that's you prerogative. who am I to judge you?

 

[VDS66]

Yep, pretty boring season that was... Average winning margin of 40 points. Don't know how I stayed awake for all those games

​

1 12.8 (80) Sydney 9.11 (65) W +15 ​

2 15.11 (101) Adelaide 10.9 (69) W +32​

3 25.11 (161) West Coast 9.10 (64) W +97 ​

4 16.9 (111) Fremantle 4.4 (28) W +83 ​

5 15.12 (102) Port Adelaide 5.6 (36) W +66 ​

6 14.20 (104) Western Bulldogs 11.10 (76) W +28 ​

7 20.8 (128) Collingwood 5.10 (40) W +88 ​

8 13.12 (90) Essendon 10.11 (71) W +19 ​

9 14.13 (97) Brisbane Lions 13.3 (81) W +16 ​

10 11.17 (83) Melbourne 6.10 (46) W +37 ​

11 15.13 (103) North Melbourne 9.3 (57) W +46 ​

12 16.8 (104) Carlton 14.11 (95) W +9 ​

13 13.14 (92) Richmond 5.6 (36) W +56 E​

14 14.7 (91) Geelong 13.7 (85) W +6 ​

15 13.12 (90) West Coast 11.4 (70) W +20 ​

16 15.15 (105) Adelaide 7.6 (48) W +57 ​

17 16.10 (106) Western Bulldogs 9.7 (61) W +45 ​

18 13.15 (94) Sydney 13.15 (93) W +1 ​

19 10.14 (74) Hawthorn 7.7 (49) W +25 ​

20 16.12 (108) Essendon 16.14 (110) L −2 ​

21 8.11 (59) North Melbourne 10.4 (64) L −5 ​

22 17.12 (114) Melbourne 10.7 (67) W +47 ​

 

[SaintLex]

Wow, is this a discussion? I'd rate Lyon's coaching skills a lot higher than GT. Both had great lists and failed to capitalise, but Lyon took us much, much closer to a flag.

I also don't think it's as simple as this:

I guess the takeaway from all of this is that Ross Lyon can't coach these tight clincher games. Saints had the best list by far during the late 2000s and I think it is pretty clear that Ross cost them.

Count yourselves lucky he took the money and ran. Now he's Freo's problem. You really have to wonder whether his financial problems back in the day are emblematic of his approach

Lyon can coach close games. His game plan has its flaws, like every other game plan out there. If there was a foolproof plan that resulted in flags every damn time, we'd know about it. I think it's valid people making points about how the defensive structures tire out players etc. but you could just as easily pick apart flaws in GT's structures, as well as every other coach.

The only thing I know for sure is that flags are mostly skill with an ounce of luck. Sometimes you just need things to go your way e.g a bounce of the ball.

 

[karaoke]

FWIW;

http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/yoshi-keeps-writing-about-footy-ross-lyons-play-list/

Ross Lyon's Playlist

 

[Freomaniac]

FWIW;

http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/yoshi-keeps-writing-about-footy-ross-lyons-play-list/

Ross Lyon's Playlist

Interesting article... But lets get some things straight...

Saints were not going to cull the list after making grand finals in 2009 and 2010. Interesting Freo has got 29 players aged 29 or over. Yet they said nothing about freos recruiting and trading from 2008-2012.

Ross Lyon doesn't blood kids? When he took over in 2011 freo got guys like Sheridan, Crozier, Neale, Sutcliffe, Dawson and Spurr. All bar 2 Sheridan and crozier played in the 2013 grand final.

Freo don't play kids? in the last 2 seasons, we have given debuts to Smith, Apeness, Tarberner and Duffy.

 

[Ian Dunross]

The post Pavlich era will probably tell the tale. Interesting times ahead.

 

[Freomaniac]

The post Pavlich era will probably tell the tale. Interesting times ahead.

True but Potentially Freo could lose the following viw retirement in 2015: Pav, Sandy, McPharlin, Crowley, Duffield, Johnson.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Surely Freo have to bottom out to make another tilt? Jesse Hogan might change that I suppose...

 

[goodie23]

Interesting article... But lets get some things straight...

Saints were not going to cull the list after making grand finals in 2009 and 2010. Interesting Freo has got 29 players aged 29 or over. Yet they said nothing about freos recruiting and trading from 2008-2012.

Ross Lyon doesn't blood kids? When he took over in 2011 freo got guys like Sheridan, Crozier, Neale, Sutcliffe, Dawson and Spurr. All bar 2 Sheridan and crozier played in the 2013 grand final.

Freo don't play kids? in the last 2 seasons, we have given debuts to Smith, Apeness, Tarberner and Duffy.

Four debutants in two seasons isn't high and if you mean Zac Dawson Freo's his third club.

 

[SaintLex]

Four debutants in two seasons isn't high and if you mean Zac Dawson Freo's his third club.

Especially when Hawthorn had 6 debutants this year alone

 

[felsty]

Debuts dont really matter when its one game in two years

 

[Mowman]

Four debutants in two seasons isn't high and if you mean Zac Dawson Freo's his third club.

Its a lot for a R. Lyon coached side

 

[sonnywalters]

Man, this thread has certainly kicked on since i last checked!

I guess the takeaway from all of this is that Ross Lyon can't coach these tight clincher games. Saints had the best list by far during the late 2000s and I think it is pretty clear that Ross cost them.

Count yourselves lucky he took the money and ran. Now he's Freo's problem. You really have to wonder whether his financial problems back in the day are emblematic of his approach

Yep and dont forget he murdered our list mgt and had zero eye for the future.

 

[Defacto]

Interesting article... But lets get some things straight...

Saints were not going to cull the list after making grand finals in 2009 and 2010. Interesting Freo has got 29 players aged 29 or over. Yet they said nothing about freos recruiting and trading from 2008-2012.

Ross Lyon doesn't blood kids? When he took over in 2011 freo got guys like Sheridan, Crozier, Neale, Sutcliffe, Dawson and Spurr. All bar 2 Sheridan and crozier played in the 2013 grand final.

Freo don't play kids? in the last 2 seasons, we have given debuts to Smith, Apeness, Tarberner and Duffy.

yeah freo are amazing at playing the kids....

i mean they just relegated tanner smith to the rookie list, effectively choosing to go with an injury prone 34 year old mcpharlin. dont see ross changing anytime soon, every year it'll be "just one more time" "one last shot"...effectively choosing to hang onto the ageing experienced players rather than growing a pair. i remember criticizing the move only to be told by freo supporters that i had no idea and the plan was to pick a KPD in the draft...funny how that turned out. passed over durdin. passed over goddard. passed over lever. passed over marchbank. its just staggering. you cant script that shit

on duffy he was effectively a mature age player. he was passed over twice in the draft. instead of punting on a 18/19 year old kid, they went with a ready made player who just so happened to be related to an employee of the club. his selection is staggering. i still cannot work it out.

taberner is like stanley for us. ross refused to give the guy a go until he had no alternative but to play him and thats the thing with ross. he does not play the kids until he is effectively forced into playing them or he throws them these stupid token gesture one off games. tarbener should have been playing senior football last year and backed in. not this year and not thrown around all over the shop. he's a CHF, back him and let him play as one. instead of persisting with the pav and mayne combo.

apeness has suffered from spending too much time in a peel side that were packed with tall fwds. its not good for him to be playing in a fwd line with sometimes 4+ other talls

dont get me started on the persistence with zac clarke

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I wonder if he uses the expression "better the devil you know" very often.

 

[sammm]

yeah freo are amazing at playing the kids....

i mean they just relegated tanner smith to the rookie list, effectively choosing to go with an injury prone 34 year old mcpharlin. dont see ross changing anytime soon, every year it'll be "just one more time" "one last shot"...effectively choosing to hang onto the ageing experienced players rather than growing a pair. i remember criticizing the move only to be told by freo supporters that i had no idea and the plan was to pick a KPD in the draft...funny how that turned out. passed over durdin. passed over goddard. passed over lever. passed over marchbank. its just staggering. you cant script that shit

on duffy he was effectively a mature age player. he was passed over twice in the draft. instead of punting on a 18/19 year old kid, they went with a ready made player who just so happened to be related to an employee of the club. his selection is staggering. i still cannot work it out.

taberner is like stanley for us. ross refused to give the guy a go until he had no alternative but to play him and thats the thing with ross. he does not play the kids until he is effectively forced into playing them or he throws them these stupid token gesture one off games. tarbener should have been playing senior football last year and backed in. not this year and not thrown around all over the shop. he's a CHF, back him and let him play as one. instead of persisting with the pav and mayne combo.

apeness has suffered from spending too much time in a peel side that were packed with tall fwds. its not good for him to be playing in a fwd line with sometimes 4+ other talls

dont get me started on the persistence with zac clarke

Supposedly, their recruiters are independent of Ross. So i am not sure why they didn't pick durdin or Goddard. However they did pick young players and not recycled players which was what ross was doing in the saints drafts

it'll be interesting to see how freo go in 205. my hope is that they again fall short of winning the flag, and will again keep topping up.