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Analysis Ross Lyon

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ydraw said:
We kicked 5.9 after quarter time so it had a bit to do with it.

In the final quarter we had 8 inside 50s in a row resulting in no score, before Harvey kicked a goal at the other end.

So yeah, I think our forward line issues had a fair bit to do with it.
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Looked to me like they were outnumbering us at both ends, using the overlap far better. We were under pressure, making bad decisions, partially because of the pressure.
 
My first ever post on this site but I think someone who follows another team has nailed some of our problems. The Speaker mentioned Ballas and believe me we are really missing him. Yes he was in horrid form before the injury but that "form" was based on goals. We are seriously missing his forward pressure and chasing.
Anyway guys it's not all doom and gloom. We will probably finish top 2. Frustrating that we are not scoring as we should but I just checked the live ladder. Some mob in purple are on top.
And good to see The Speaker back posting here. One of the better posters on Bigfooty.
 
Coogee said:
My first ever post on this site but I think someone who follows another team has nailed some of our problems. The Speaker mentioned Ballas and believe me we are really missing him. Yes he was in horrid form before the injury but that "form" was based on goals. We are seriously missing his forward pressure and chasing.
Anyway guys it's not all doom and gloom. We will probably finish top 2. Frustrating that we are not scoring as we should but I just checked the live ladder. Some mob in purple are on top.
And good to see The Speaker back posting here. One of the better posters on Bigfooty.
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Mate, do not reply to my post or you are going to stuff up your positing average.
 

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ydraw said:
Chris Mayne.
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This is the hypocricy of your posting in a nutshell. Mayne had a far better game than A Pearce. But you seem to think because Pearce is young he should be playing. de Boer had a better game than Crozier too all within the 15 minutes or so that he played. I wouldn't drop any of them apart from de Boer, but I would think about resting A Pearce and giving him a game to recalibrate where he is at.

You really do not seem to realise that dropping Mayne effectively entails adopting a major modification to a game plan that sees us on top of the ladder, just before the finals, and bleat stuff about the coach being risk averse. Virtually all people who experience sustained success are risk averse. That is, they continually make the choices that are most likely to succeed. I really hope the players are learning this.
 
One good key forward and we would be a much better team.

Ross knows this. It's why we have tried for every out of contract forward.

Can you imagine if we had one of Darling or Kennedy and one of Roughhead or even a guy like Gunston? All that clearance and hard ball get dominance might actually come to something.

Great teams have a settled line up generally speaking this time of year. Our forward line is mush.

Constants this year are Walters, Pav and Mayne. Pav has been immense and is still a better than average key forward with patches of brilliance but it's not enough. Walters is a gun but he is being used up the ground a bit because he's so skilful. He's doing his bit for sure though. Mayne is a suplimentary player. Never will be a star.

Add to this a combination of Pearce, Tabs, Griffin and a few non-forwards like DeBoer and Barlow and it's hardly a forward line that strike fear into anybody. The structure is all wrong as well.

Ballas is an obvious missing piece also but for whatever reason he's been missing all year.

Ross knows this deficiency is there and I think he tries to cover for it. I think we are getting found out. Flood or forward line and we are done, not some kind of fancy zone or something but just an old fashioned flood and we don't have the forward structure to threaten anyone.
 
E Shed said:
Watching Josh Kennedy destroy the Eagles really brings it home how much we need some real tall forwards.
With the amount of play we controlled today we could have slaughtered them if we had anyone besides a 20 year old beanpole to take a grab.
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Sort of makes the play youth an anomaly.
 
raffrox said:
One good key forward and we would be a much better team.

Ross knows this. It's why we have tried for every out of contract forward.

Can you imagine if we had one of Darling or Kennedy and one of Roughhead or even a guy like Gunston? All that clearance and hard ball get dominance might actually come to something.

Great teams have a settled line up generally speaking this time of year. Our forward line is mush.

Constants this year are Walters, Pav and Mayne. Pav has been immense and is still a better than average key forward with patches of brilliance but it's not enough. Walters is a gun but he is being used up the ground a bit because he's so skilful. He's doing his bit for sure though. Mayne is a suplimentary player. Never will be a star.

Add to this a combination of Pearce, Tabs, Griffin and a few non-forwards like DeBoer and Barlow and it's hardly a forward line that strike fear into anybody. The structure is all wrong as well.

Ballas is an obvious missing piece also but for whatever reason he's been missing all year.

Ross knows this deficiency is there and I think he tries to cover for it. I think we are getting found out. Flood or forward line and we are done, not some kind of fancy zone or something but just an old fashioned flood and we don't have the forward structure to threaten anyone.
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Well said.
 
E Shed said:
Ross sounds a little stressed. Its clearly getting to him too.
http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/2015-08-23/ross-lyon-postmatch-q-a?camefrom=EMCL_741951_31632084
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Maybe its because he doesn't have an answer for the problems.

Frankly, he seems to have one idea that other teams have worked out. The thing is, it takes a very good team to beat his game plan but when they can, we have no answer.

Unless he can address our poor skills and decision making issues in the next 2 weeks then we will not be competitive unless we are playing Carlton or Melbourne. I've complained all year about some things and been given a serve because I've dared to suggest he isn't the best coach in the game. Well, simply he isn't and his game plan struggles against fast skillful sides and that is what faces us in the finals
 
salim malik said:
Sort of makes the play youth an anomaly.
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Not really. I mean the one promising tall we had down there wouldn't have gotten a game this year if Dawson and the rest were available. As it is he is way further along his journey than he would be if Ross had his preferred setup. I think that argues for taking a risk with selection sometimes if you know you have a good one coming through.

Also my call all along has been for bringing more skilful players into the team who can bring the ball inside 50 with some composure. We've gone about as far as we can with the guys we have and I'm not seeing any evidence that the incumbents are good enough to get it done in September. Would Blakely and Weller have brought something into the team to bring some freshness, unpredictability and skill? We'll never know.

If Ross manages to lift the cup with the blokes he's backed in all year I will be amazed and in awe and completely happy to eat my words. It just doesn't seem likely to me.
 

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E Shed said:
Watching Josh Kennedy destroy the Eagles really brings it home how much we need some real tall forwards.
With the amount of play we controlled today we could have slaughtered them if we had anyone besides a 20 year old beanpole to take a grab.
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That's true. We desperately need one. Don't forget, Kennedy is the best forward in the comp atm. Meanwhile we have the best midfielder.
I'd love to have all the best players, but it's not going to happen. Instead, we have two AA defenders, one of the best rucks, two of best small forwards, and a true legend in his twilight.
I think that what maybe some here are starting to realise is that A. Pearce, who will be a star one day, is not our messiah just yet.
 
Borderline said:
So it should, the buck stops with him
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The buck also stops with the players as well. I am not a Ross Lyon apologist and I even have my doubts about the game plan. However we are still top of the ladder. Playing crap but still top. Think about it.
Can we win finals? Who knows. Just enjoy the ride.
 
ydraw said:
Chris Mayne.
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If you can't kick directly in front from 20-40m you shouldn't be in the forward line. When Ballas is back I would replace Mayne with him, because at the very least he knows how to score.
 
Coogee said:
The buck also stops with the players as well. I am not a Ross Lyon apologist and I even have my doubts about the game plan. However we are still top of the ladder. Playing crap but still top. Think about it.
Can we win finals? Who knows. Just enjoy the ride.
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Yeah I'm about there too. I actually do think Ross has fallen behind the curve a bit with his game plan but then I think imagine if he had a couple of decent key forwards and one more class midfielder (which is why I've been so consistently mystified he hasn't tried to get Weller or Blakely entrenched in the side).
But it is what it is. We will play finals and as I think this is our last hurrah for a while I'm going to enjoy it as much as possible, despite that I think we are more than likely to go out in straight sets again.
 

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Mr Peabody said:
Good thing we have Melbourne next week then hey.
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Thats terrific!

And what your plan for Port in Adelaide? Or Hawthorn in the Qualifying Final? Or the game after that?

Even more to the point, what is Lyon's plan? Don't know? You're probably not alone there.

My point is sitting on top of the ladder is meaningless unless you are clearly the best team. Clearly, we aren't. When the Hawks and Eagles are playing in the Grand Final, what will top of the ladder mid season be worth? F*** all. As of this moment, Lyon is a top eight coach but he's far and away nowhere near the best
 
i think it would have been easier to enjoy this year as a supporter if we hadn't been at the top of the ladder and built up an expectation that we could win the flag this year. it's a bitter pill to swallow that despite potentially finishing in the best position going into the finals in our history, exposed form doesn't really inspire confidence that we'll go deep at all. Any of the contenders (we've not even considered as one of them) will smash us because we just don't have the ability to score, even if we have periods of dominance in general play. It's frustrating, and I'm sure it's frustrating the hell out of the players as well.
 
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to be fair to lyon, his game plan has given us ample opportunity to score. i think where he and match committee has fallen down this year is not selecting people who are capable of executing that but persisting with players giving great effort with not much reward. is it just conservatism or is it because the guys below are clearly not ready? i mean, look at Crozier - we've been baying for Ballas to be dropped until his injury so we could give him a run, but he's clearly not delivered now that he's been given opportunity.
 
Grape Bear said:
to be fair to lyon, his game plan has given us ample opportunity to score. i think where he and match committee has fallen down this year is not selecting people who are capable of executing that but persisting with players giving great effort with not much reward. is it just conservatism or is it because the guys below are clearly not ready? i mean, look at Crozier - we've been baying for Ballas to be dropped until his injury so we could give him a run, but he's clearly not delivered now that he's been given opportunity.
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Thats harsh on Crozier, he hasn't had the luxury of 10+ game run like Ballas and Mayne have.

The expectations on him are unrealistic, look at Mayne who can't even score from directly in front. Every time Mayne misses easy shots, he kills the team atmosphere because the fact is we're working twice as hard as the opposition to even get the ball into the 50.
 
Banker said:
Thats harsh on Crozier, he hasn't had the luxury of 10+ game run like Ballas and Mayne have.

The expectations on him are unrealistic, look at Mayne who can't even score from directly in front. Every time Mayne misses easy shots, he kills the team atmosphere because the fact is we're working twice as hard as the opposition to even get the ball into the 50.
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No, he hasn't had the same run, and I'm not absolving Mayne of anything. My point is that we're all thinking that the reason why Ross is not picking younger players simply because of his inherent conservatism, but maybe it's because some of the young players are simply not ready. Crozier, who is a fourth year player, really should be playing more consistent football than what he is now that he has been given an opportunity, but he struggles to make an impact on the game despite his skill set. Ballas has been down on goals all year, but his absence is now showing us that he is worth much more than just what he is able to put on the scoreboard, and this justifies why he was keeping Crozier out until he got injured.
 
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Grape Bear said:
No, he hasn't had the same run, and I'm not absolving Mayne of anything. My point is that we're all thinking that the reason why Ross is not picking younger players simply because of his inherent conservatism, but maybe it's because some of the young players are simply not ready. Crozier, who is a fourth year player, really should be playing more consistent football than what he is, now that he has been given an opportunity, but he struggles to make an impact on the game despite it skill set. Ballas has been down on goals all year, but his absence is now showing us that he is worth much more than just what he is able to put on the scoreboard, and this justifies why he was keeping Crozier out until he got injured.
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He may be a 4th year player but he has only played 33 career games.

The only way you get ready, especially for a player in the forward position is through games. His sub par performances don't justify not playing young players or continuing with Ballas/Mayne when their form is absolute crap.
 

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