Analysis Ross Lyon

[balthazarthedonk]

Agree with this. Richmond were the better side on the day, but were let down by a really bad decision in the dying moments of the game. The only stats we won on the day were the hit-outs and tackles.

Intriguingly, we won the stat war in my opinion against West Coast. On paper we were better than West Coast yesterday but our skills were the worst I have ever seen. I agree with Mathew Lloyd, we are not the best team in the competition. I think we can be though.

Nah, Freo was let down by Sheridan's miss 30 seconds earlier. Both the Tiges and the Weags really tightened up when Freo put serious pressure on them. Do not like the size of the thumping in Tasmania at all. But Tassie games are outliers for the team.

That's not to say that I think the team's form has been good or that there are aces up the sleeve. Freo has been bog average for at least half the year. It's just that I think a big part of it has been the inability to get any semblance of experience and direction in the back line. Not just the loss of MJ, it is that coupled with no Dawson or Silva. I think getting some match fitness into the back 6 in the next 3 weeks is critical to a conservative coach like Ross taking some risks down field.

 

[Mudd]

spot on. the amateur armchair critics must make Ross smile with their indepth analysis/anxiety. these people will be the first to declare Ross a God if we do go premiers. if we do i think it will be the best coaching performance for along time given the majority of our stars are aging and a bottom 6 which can drive some insane on here. jeepers that does sound like st kilda

Aren't we all armchair critics on bigfooty?

There are a few who are better suited to the 'fyfe without his shirt on' thread but im sure the majority appreciate analysis even if they don't personally agree with all of it.

Spot on about the bottom 6, the frustration though is that Ross is continually playing the bottom 6 instead of trying youth, we haven't had a single full game combined from weller/blakely/langdon/grey. we have no idea what they will offer at AFL level.

 

[Danny Cullen]

we haven't had a single full game combined from weller/blakely/langdon/grey. we have no idea what they will offer at AFL level.

I think Ross does.

 

[Mogumber]

Sorry, aren't we top of the ladder?

 

[sproketman]

It's not that the bottom six are simply no good this year. It's that they have been members of that group for years and have not improved.

The guys that have improved this year are those who were already among the better players: Hill, Fyfe, Neale. Time for the other guys to step up, or get out.

 

[malpaso]

It's not that the bottom six are simply no good this year. It's that they have been members of that group for years and have not improved.

The guys that have improved this year are those who were already among the better players: Hill, Fyfe, Neale. Time for the other guys to step up, or get out.

Sheridan has improved, A.Pearce has improved.
The problem is that our midfielders to come in are too 'light' and Ross knows it. They will play when they can handle it and know their roles. After the rookies we are stuck with the following to boost our midfield: C.Pearce, Duffield, Ballard, B.Grey

 

[blue shark]

Sheridan has improved, A.Pearce has improved.
The problem is that our midfielders to come in are too 'light' and Ross knows it. They will play when they can handle it and know their roles. After the rookies we are stuck with the following to boost our midfield: C.Pearce, Duffield, Ballard, B.Grey

Too light? I don't see D Pearce, Hill, or even Gaff that strike fear into the opposition, outside players
are judged on their pace, skill, vision to set up plays, deliver the ball lace out, and kick goals. I can
understand saying that Blakey is too light ATM, but Weller, Langdon, have what is required to play
that role, the sooner they replace D Pearce, the better the team will become offensively.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Intriguingly, we won the stat war in my opinion against West Coast. On paper we were better than West Coast yesterday but our skills were the worst I have ever seen. I agree with Mathew Lloyd, we are not the best team in the competition. I think we can be though.

Yeah bang on.

While the effort and spread compared to West Coast was lacking in the 1st half, our skills were also terrible. Every time we did posess the ball we seemed to be unable to get it past the halfway line before an inevitable turnover. I think that's one consequence of trying to change the plan to play a game that requires more precise kicking without a list that really has those skills. Some days it will work and some it wont.

That's why I think there's merit in the selection argument. There's a couple of swaps we could make that would go a long way towards fixing that deficiency I think.

 

[theGav56]

Too light? I don't see D Pearce, Hill, or even Gaff that strike fear into the opposition, outside players
are judged on their pace, skill, vision to set up plays, deliver the ball lace out, and kick goals. I can
understand saying that Blakey is too light ATM, but Weller, Langdon, have what is required to play
that role, the sooner they replace D Pearce, the better the team will become offensively.

Agree, but think your skills list needs to include fitness base and knowledge of the game plan. I am certain that if the young guys build those then they will be in.

 

[blue shark]

Agree, but think your skills list needs to include fitness base and knowledge of the game plan. I am certain that if the young guys build those then they will be in.

I understand that people think we need to play the bigger bodies, experienced, etc, but you can see the quality on the sidelines, and there
is a massive upside to come.
It just difficult to watch our team this year hoping we can pinch a GF, knowing the team will be stronger next year.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I wonder if it wasn't for the injuries to our backs whether we would have seen A.Pearce play this year?

 

[Silent Alarm]

Aren't we all armchair critics on bigfooty?

There are a few who are better suited to the 'fyfe without his shirt on' thread but im sure the majority appreciate analysis even if they don't personally agree with all of it.

Spot on about the bottom 6, the frustration though is that Ross is continually playing the bottom 6 instead of trying youth, we haven't had a single full game combined from weller/blakely/langdon/grey. we have no idea what they will offer at AFL level.

Yeah, and as much shit they talk and as big of a boy's club as it is, the actually professional critics say the same thing – Freo have no power forward, Pav is doing too much, the forward line has no real structure... it's barely like regular fans are talking conspiracies and coming up with bizarre reasons for losses.

In fact I'd say the ones who have blind faith are the ones believing in ludicrous shit. "He wanted to lose that one," "he has something up his sleeve..." Spare me.

 

[poshman]

Yeah, and as much shit they talk and as big of a boy's club as it is, the actually professional critics say the same thing – Freo have no power forward, Pav is doing too much, the forward line has no real structure... it's barely like regular fans are talking conspiracies and coming up with bizarre reasons for losses.

In fact I'd say the ones who have blind faith are the ones believing in ludicrous shit. "He wanted to lose that one," "he has something up his sleeve..." Spare me.

The something up his sleeve argument is far more ridiculous than any other speculation here. The only thing we know is that Lyon has rested players in the back half of games we were winning. But to think that all year he has played a grinding game plan to hide a quick clean easy game plan makes little sense...

 

[malpaso]

The something up his sleeve argument is far more ridiculous than any other speculation here. The only thing we know is that Lyon has rested players in the back half of games we were winning. But to think that all year he has played a grinding game plan to hide a quick clean easy game plan makes little sense...

You wait until MJ gets back to form. He is the key and it directly affected our game plan when he went down. Lyon has already alluded to the fact that Dawson is not an automatic because he is available. We only had McPharlin and MJ at the start of the year. Although I suspect against the Roos we need Dawson in as well.

 

[The Anchorite]

He doesn't have a magic wand up his sleeve that will magically turn our form back on. But what he does have up his sleeve is the fact we are 6 points clear on top with a good chance of being able to rest players in the last round, and that we have our backline finally coming together and are doing okay injury wise leading in to the finals. There's a lot of psychology coming in to play but I'm willing to bet that when it does come time to turn on the intensity we won't be found lacking.

 

[manpurple]

I am probably about to say something that is counter intuitive but RTB is one of the best in the league because of his adaptability.

I remain impressed by how often he goes down to the team at 3qrt time for him to get us a win in a loosing situation. Granted on the weekend 6 goals was a lot to come back from and our boys were not having the best of days.
I remember that in his first year we weren't going so well at the start of the season and RTB said he had to simplify the game plan. Then we made finals and thumped Geelong. He "tweeked" the game plan at the start of the year and we had a fantastic start to the year.
Now there are questions because he hasn't blooded the youth (in the opinion of some) and we keep selecting the same players (another common criticism).

Problem is not that we are picking the wrong players but that there aren't the numbers in the right roles. We haven't had enough fit quality talls.
There is no need to go on about deBoer vs Blakely or any other fringe dwelling medium in the team or not getting a game. The mid core has been strong and hasn't had injuries, Mundy, Barlow, Fyfe, Neale and Hill are the core and none have been consistently poor. Ibbo, Spurr, D Pearce and Walters have been doing all required so you can't complain. But fiddling with the last man in is not going to give you a 10% team improvement. We are in an era of modern footy and no matter what we say here professionals only do what is successful. If they keep going on about structures it's because structures will give you the result you desire.

Our problem is that Dawson, Silvani and MJ were injured for large parts of the season leaving only AP or Smith (and he is nowhere close). Apeness in the front line is out all season leaving Tabs as the only other realistic KPF. In the Ruck department Z Clarke continues to under deliver for his potential and Griff whilst capable is not fantastic in the forward line. Hannath and Moller are nowhere close to a serious game. So in the area RTB wants to adjust he really has no choices.
For example; last weekend was his first chance all year to play with the talls structure and MJ was so sore (he literally did not get above a jog all day) I was surprised he got a game. So it all fell apart because MJ was not playing his role and the backline got carved up as they all tried to cover. So RTB did what he does and adjusted, pulled a 10 gamer back to shore up defense and then tried to counter punch his way out in the 4th. Fell short with some game indicative blooper reel stuff from the boys.
No this season has not been about the mids or the medium small players in any possition. This season has been typified by RTB fiddling with the people available to try and get functional tall forward and back lines. I would argue he has "sacrificed games" to try to find it. And it has to be said that Tabs and AP have both been useful in places but it is unreasonable to expect them to be carrying the team. Pav is not what he was but Mayne has been underwhelming for the last two years and the "resting rucks" have been universally less than impressive forward. I am sure he dreams of a Darling Kennedy double forward combo.

Many have said that we needed talls before and we have but the medium/mid depth has not really been there either before this year. After all we are all saying that the kids will offer so much more than those we argue about week in and week out. The recruiting people have been trying to fix that for the last 5 years. So I just want to see what RTB can do if we get a Dixon, a Shultz, a McGovin, or a McCarthy.

 

[theGav56]

I actually think the bottom 6 players is the area to look for a 10% team improvement, and when the young guns are ready I expect improvement. Ok maybe 5%.

 

[manpurple]

I actually think the bottom 6 players is the area to look for a 10% team improvement, and when the young guns are ready I expect improvement. Ok maybe 5%.

Perhaps if I put it like this.

Most weeks IMHO;
Ruck = 95-100% of what RTB wants
Mids = 95-100% of what RTB wants
Wingers = 85-95% of what RTB wants
Small/Medium Defenders = 90-95% of what RTB wants
Small Medium Forwards = 80-90% of what RTB wants
Tall Defenders = 80-90% of what RTB wants
Tall Forwards = 70-80% of what RTB wants

Changing the half back/forward players and the wingers may get you that 5% improvement across that line but may also get you a 5% drop off. But sort out the talls at one or other ends you will get something between 10 and 30%.

 

[Banker]

I wonder if it wasn't for the injuries to our backs whether we would have seen A.Pearce play this year?

Unlikely as I imagine, Dawson and Silva would be ahead in the pecking order.

For a defender to stand out in Peel is very hard!

 

[theGav56]

I understand that people think we need to play the bigger bodies, experienced, etc, but you can see the quality on the sidelines, and there
is a massive upside to come.
It just difficult to watch our team this year hoping we can pinch a GF, knowing the team will be stronger next year.

Fitness isn't simply about having a bigger body. It is about being able to grind out the run that is essential at the end of the game. The work that guys like Suban, de Boer and Mzungu have put in over the course of several pre-seasons is difficult to short cut.

 

[Paracleet]

The appointment of Ross Lyon was when this footy club got serious. It was a bizarre day in footy but a momentous one – Freo was finally bold, cut-throat, and full of intent. It showed that the administration had some balls and nous. It was cunning. Ross Lyon is no doubt Freo's best ever coach, he was an absolute coup, and you couldn't even imagine who would've been next in line if Schwabby and co. were still in charge.

However, people are rightfully starting to get confused and angry over Ross Lyon.

Most of this lays in his selection policy, which is essentially picking the same 25 core players on rotation, persevering with them, and constantly showing (blind) faith in guys like Matt DeBoer (who should be good for six or seven games a season as depth, but not a walk up in the 22).

This isn't reactionary to the Eagles loss. Whatever. They're a bunch of pretenders. But the discontent is becoming pretty noticeable. As it bloody well should be, too.

So – what is the assessment of Ross Lyon? Was he the best Fremantle could've gotten? Is he the best for Fremantle? Will he forever be the bridesmaid?

You are a tool.

 

[Docker Alyssa]

I wonder if it wasn't for the injuries to our backs whether we would have seen A.Pearce play this year?

Fair point but its all a hypothetical. We did see it and we did end up seeing he could come in and perform to the level of Dawson. A good structure peg. And even more, now can be a swing man for us in place of poor performing/injured Clarke and Hannath 2nd ruck/fwd.

 

[ydraw]

Sheridan has improved, A.Pearce has improved.
The problem is that our midfielders to come in are too 'light' and Ross knows it. They will play when they can handle it and know their roles. After the rookies we are stuck with the following to boost our midfield: C.Pearce, Duffield, Ballard, B.Grey

People would have defended the selections if nobody got injured and Pearce was yet to debut too. It's only a really unlikely set of circumstances that led to him getting a game in the first place, and look how good he went.

I don't care how "light" our young midfielders are, they are better than De Boer and Suban. Anyone is.

 

[Kram]

Too many pussies on this board acting like the Hudson character from Aliens.

 

[leeloo]

I don't have blind faith in Lyon and I definitely don't think he has some sort of 'trick' up his sleeve going into finals. But I can't think of anybody else who I would have as a senior coach. He seems to be intelligent enough to try and change his techniques and is constantly reviewing his methods, I think he has doing ok.

I really don't want to go back down the path of sacking coaches every three/four years like we used to, it just doesn't work.