Analysis Ross Lyon

[E Shed]

No, he hasn't had the same run, and I'm not absolving Mayne of anything. My point is that we're all thinking that the reason why Ross is not picking younger players simply because of his inherent conservatism, but maybe it's because some of the young players are simply not ready. Crozier, who is a fourth year player, really should be playing more consistent football than what he is, now that he has been given an opportunity, but he struggles to make an impact on the game despite it skill set. Ballas has been down on goals all year, but his absence is now showing us that he is worth much more than just what he is able to put on the scoreboard, and this justifies why he was keeping Crozier out until he got injured.

This is unfortunately true and why we haven't been playing Crozier or Sheridan much. They are ok AFL players but nothing special at this point in time.
In fact our drafting since 2009 has been hit and miss with 2010 particularly being a write off. Its resulted in us having some gaps in our list the most obvious of which is tall forwards.
All of which means that the best players we've gotten in for a while (yes I know its early call but I'll stand by my comments) in Weller, Blakely and Langdon will be coming in as we lose the cream of our older list. Next year a mini, on the run, rebuilt starts I reckon.

 

[ydraw]

This is the hypocricy of your posting in a nutshell. Mayne had a far better game than A Pearce. But you seem to think because Pearce is young he should be playing.

No, I think Pearce and Taberner should play because they are tall, and Mayne isn't. He also can't kick. Why is he in the forward line?

Again today we got destroyed by a key defender because we had no key forwards for them to be accountable for. Just like in the 2013 grand final. That is why Taberner should have played today. His age has nothing to do with it.

 

[Grape Bear]

He may be a 4th year player but he has only played 33 career games.

The only way you get ready, especially for a player in the forward position is through games. His sub par performances don't justify not playing young players or continuing with Ballas/Mayne when their form is absolute crap.

it does when Ballas' replacement that everyone thinks will be the quick fix doesn't deliver. it's not even that he's expected to deliver exactly what Ballas can when on form, he's not staking his claim on the position. If he was, it would make it harder for MC to pick Ballas again if he was available.

 

[salim malik]

No, I think Pearce and Taberner should play because they are tall, and Mayne isn't. He also can't kick. Why is he in the forward line?

Again today we got destroyed by a key defender because we had no key forwards for them to be accountable for. Just like in the 2013 grand final. That is why Taberner should have played today. His age has nothing to do with it.

You're right about his age not mattering but his form is poor.To replace Mayne with Tabs would achieve nothing apart from the ball leaving the forward half with out any pressure.Tabs is not a key forward .Pearce is a tall forward that did not work today.Being tall is not the only attribute needed by a key forward.

 

[Banker]

it does when Ballas' replacement that everyone thinks will be the quick fix doesn't deliver. it's not even that he's expected to deliver exactly what Ballas can when on form, he's not staking his claim on the position. If he was, it would make it harder for MC to pick Ballas again if he was available.

Ridiculous.

How many goals did Ballas score this season before his injury? Based on this Croziers crap performance today, is absolutely fine. Its a joke to think he would stake claim on the position when he had such a crappy chance to prove it.

What we know is the MC have no clue, how MDB is still in the team is amazing. Last year he and Suban were on the fringes, but suddenly this year they're undroppable, makes no sense at all.

 

[Grape Bear]

Ridiculous.

How many goals did Ballas score this season before his injury? Based on this Croziers crap performance today, is absolutely fine. Its a joke to think he would stake claim on the position when he had such a crappy chance to prove it.

What we know is the MC have no clue, how MDB is still in the team is amazing. Last year he and Suban were on the fringes, but suddenly this year they're undroppable, makes no sense at all.

Actually, MdB was playing in Peel during our early season run. It's like he and Tabs have swapped places, in some weird like for like thing.

 

[theGav56]

Not really. I mean the one promising tall we had down there wouldn't have gotten a game this year if Dawson and the rest were available.

With respect I think this is misleading for a couple of reasons.

Firstly it is fairly reasonable to expect that a 20 year old beanpole will struggle to get a game in any AFL side.

Secondly, all of MJ, MacPharlin, Dawson and Silvagni have form in terms of not being available for a fair diversity of reasons; injury, old age, thuggery and brain fades among them. It is fairly reasonable to conclude that Pearce may indeed have got gametime. What is unexpected is that his game time was spent as one of the 2 KPPs rather than as a third man or less demanding situation. But regardless, it is kind of a truism that young players get an opportunity when a vacancy arises, unless they are absolutely killing it at a lower level.

It is a real credit to the back line and Lyon himself that they were able to cover this learning curve so well, and indeed it is an accolade for Pearce that he did well with such a baptism.

 

[theGav56]

Thats harsh on Crozier, he hasn't had the luxury of 10+ game run like Ballas and Mayne have.

The expectations on him are unrealistic, look at Mayne who can't even score from directly in front. Every time Mayne misses easy shots, he kills the team atmosphere because the fact is we're working twice as hard as the opposition to even get the ball into the 50.

Mayne is far more likely to score because he gets the ball. In actual fact he did score 1.1. I t is Crozier who could not score or even have a significant impact. Mayne's 6 marks and 6 tackles demonstrate a much more important contribution than Crozier's 2 marks and 4 tackles as well.

Hopefully next year Crozier can overtake Mayne, but he is not there yet.

 

[Banker]

Mayne is far more likely to score because he gets the ball. In actual fact he did score 1.1. I t is Crozier who could not score or even have a significant impact. Mayne's 6 marks and 6 tackles demonstrate a much more important contribution than Crozier's 2 marks and 4 tackles as well.

Hopefully next year Crozier can overtake Mayne, but he is not there yet.

I thought it was one of Maynes better game, but it doesn't hide the fact he is a forward. The benchmark that is used to measure effectiveness is goals, and given he failed to score from directly in front, doesn't give him a pass mark. He is a senior player, with the experience you expect him to nail the easy opportunities. Instead every time he misses he kills the team spirit because we're at our core still very much a defensive team, that relies on high % of conversion in the fwd 50 to win games.

 

[Mr Peabody]

Even more to the point, what is Lyon's plan?

I'm as frustrated as you so not looking for an argument but I'll take a stab at what his plan is from what I've seen and heard.
In a broad sense, I think his plan is do his best to win a flag this year with the cattle at our disposal and he acknowledges we have some serious shortcomings - in the front half across the entire list and in the back half due to our ageing and injury prone KP players.

In specifics:
- I think he has invested in an increased preseason with a view to the opening bunch of games that set our season up early.
- The skills in those early games were very good and our style of play benefitted from being less contested.
- He's endeavoured to play Taberner, Sheridan, Crozier & Griffin while turning over Duffield, Clarke and Mzungu (probably).
- Whether by default or with intention, A.Pearce has had a good run at it as well.
- Being a stickler for stats, he'd take the view that flags are generally won by playing the least amount of players that are experienced.
- Since the early rounds, our skills and decision-making have suffered but he's backed the same players and his ability to restore their skills.

While there have been some glimpses of a return to form (like the 1st Quarter today), it's obviously frustrating us and the coach as it is not (yet) going to plan. As I see it, it's way too late now to stray from it particularly as the Peel depth has taken a hit as well recently.

I think Ross has been consistent. He did say from the outset that if we were sitting 3 and 8 half way, he'd be playing the kids.
At 10 and 1, he backed his plan. My current beef is with the players. Ross is Ross - you know what you're getting. But the players have more to answer to. They have teased but are looking rather fraudulent right now as they have shown they are better than this. I can only hope they reignite their mojo but I'm worried too.

 

[imperial_oz]

I'm as frustrated as you so not looking for an argument but I'll take a stab at what his plan is from what I've seen and heard.
In a broad sense, I think his plan is do his best to win a flag this year with the cattle at our disposal and he acknowledges we have some serious shortcomings - in the front half across the entire list and in the back half due to our ageing and injury prone KP players.

In specifics:
- I think he has invested in an increased preseason with a view to the opening bunch of games that set our season up early.
- The skills in those early games were very good and our style of play benefitted from being less contested.
- He's endeavoured to play Taberner, Sheridan, Crozier & Griffin while turning over Duffield, Clarke and Mzungu (probably).
- Whether by default or with intention, A.Pearce has had a good run at it as well.
- Being a stickler for stats, he'd take the view that flags are generally won by playing the least amount of players that are experienced.
- Since the early rounds, our skills and decision-making have suffered but he's backed the same players and his ability to restore their skills.

While there have been some glimpses of a return to form (like the 1st Quarter today), it's obviously frustrating us and the coach as it is not (yet) going to plan. As I see it, it's way too late now to stray from it particularly as the Peel depth has taken a hit as well recently.

I think Ross has been consistent. He did say from the outset that if we were sitting 3 and 8 half way, he'd be playing the kids.
At 10 and 1, he backed his plan. My current beef is with the players. Ross is Ross - you know what you're getting. But the players have more to answer to. They have teased but are looking rather fraudulent right now as they have shown they are better than this. I can only hope they reignite their mojo but I'm worried too.

In my view, he's seen holes in his game plan and he's trying to speed up the team by changing to a play on at every chance. Thats a fail. It certainly cost us today's game.

Whats worse, the coaches have not dealt with our skills level. Teams cam pick apart his zoning through precise kicking. Hawthorn does it, Richmond did it and f*** me even GWS did it, this year and last but they aren't skillful enough to maintain it. We aren't skillful enough to match it or beat it. Watch how many handpasses we we screw up or missed kicks.

Great effort will not beat great effort and skill.

Right now I'd have Clarkson, Simpson (spit), Beveridge and probably Longmire as the top four coaches. Lyon, maybe the best of the rest. We have had deficiencies that have been obvious all year but they haven't been addressed and now we are paying for it. We are currently so far off the pace we don't deserve to be considered as flag chances in spite of any possible top 2 finish (which has not been sewn up yet)

Today was shit. Nothing less and it seems we need to rely on Melbourne being shit for next week. If Melbourne actually turn up, we will have problems and Port will be odds on the week after and they wont even make the eight. Staggering into September isnt a recipe for success

 

[sproketman]

If we don't win it this year I would hope for a thorough review of recruitment. In my opinion we have been bog ordinary since Smart left the building: 2010 was a failure, 2011 was more fruitful, but Crozier has not come on and looks like a dud and Sheridan is OK while nothing spectacular, 2012 was again a failure.

Lyon is still working with the fruits of the 08-09 drafts and the wealth of talent taken there. We have had three first draft pick fails out of four since then (too early to rate Apeness and Weller) and two completely wasted drafts. That's the kind of strike rate we had under Schwab/Connolly, and the tail end of that era was a story of an old team who blew their opportunity. History is starting to rhyme.

And that's without getting into the complete waste of time the Sylvia pick up was.

 

[Grape Bear]

I agree with you for some of that, but Longmire is a bit of a long bow. And Beveridge has a young team - of top draft picks who have developed well off an already talented skill set. Not sure he'd get the same output with our plodder riddled list.

 

[salim malik]

I agree with you for some of that, but Longmire is a bit of a long bow. And Beveridge has a young team - of top draft picks who have developed well off an already talented skill set. Not sure he'd get the same output with our plodder riddled list.

I know you're disappointed but its hardly a plodder riddled list.18 and 4 does suggest otherwise.

 

[Grape Bear]

I know you're disappointed but its hardly a plodder riddled list.18 and 4 does suggest otherwise.

We're 18-4 because of game plan and because our stars carried us in the first half of the year. Pav turned back the clock, Fyfe was unstoppable, and the old back 6 was humming. Our bottom 6 flourished. 9 rounds later, deep into a long season when injuries and fatigue set in, our stars are no longer able to carry the load and our bottom 6 plodders are not able to step up. We were a weight of numbers team earlier this year, but that's not the case in the last few weeks.

 

[MadMac]

I know you're disappointed but its hardly a plodder riddled list.18 and 4 does suggest otherwise.

Maybe plodder riddled is not quite accurate but you have to admit that we have more than a fair share of plodders on our list.

 

[salim malik]

We're 18-4 because of game plan and because our stars carried us in the first half of the year. Pav turned back the clock, Fyfe was unstoppable, and the old back 6 was humming. Our bottom 6 flourished. 9 rounds later, deep into a long season when injuries and fatigue set in, our stars are no longer able to carry the load and our bottom 6 plodders are not able to step up. We were a weight of numbers team earlier this year, but that's not the case in the last few weeks.

We have had injuries all season .Johnno,Zac D Luke,Balla.Eagles are flying but there plodders will come back to earth .

 

[nurries]

I question the players commitment to win a flag. Should of seriously rolled North today. I just don't think this group has it in them, They are definitely not "dog hungry " as Lyon puts it

 

[Spoken4]

I question the players commitment to win a flag. Should of seriously rolled North today. I just don't think this group has it in them,

You could say the same thing about Hawthorn. The players knew that a top 2 spot was on the line and they lost to a team (at home) that was missing a number of its star players and had been recently beaten by both Carlton and Brisbane.

 

[Lach72]

We have had injuries all season .Johnno,Zac D Luke,Balla.Eagles are flying but there plodders will come back to earth .

What? The Eagles haven't had a backline all year. They belted fifth today by 75 and kicked 160...

They're playing a fast attacking style using precise kicking and good key forwards.

We play one quarter like that a week then fall in stinking heap.

 

[nurries]

You could say the same thing about Hawthorn. The players knew that a top 2 spot was on the line and they lost to a team (at home) that was missing a number of its star players and had been recently beaten by both Carlton and Brisbane.

Hawthorn weren't smashing Port in the first quarter though

 

[Spoken4]

Hawthorn weren't smashing Port in the first quarter though

Point still stands. They got beaten by a team that has been poor most of the year and at home. We got beaten by a team away that had won 5 games in a row.

 

[Proud SJW]

...As of this moment, Lyon is a top eight coach but he's far and away nowhere near the best

Do you think any other coach in the AFL could do better with this team? That's a serious question.

I mean it's all well and good to say "Clarkson is the best coach in the league" but the fact is he's got a forward line we'd be scoring 100 points a week with as easily as they are.

Skill errors or no skill errors, we've got more forward 50 entries than our opposition pretty much every week.
Ross said as much in his presser tonight, and then said "How does that happen"? and he's dead right.
It isn't the game plan. It's personnel.

 

[nurries]

Point still stands. They got beaten by a team that has been poor most of the year and at home. We got beaten by a team away that had won 5 games in a row.

Can you explain the difference between the first quarter and the drop off of the other three?

 

[Lach72]

Do you think any other coach in the AFL could do better with this team? That's a serious question.

I mean it's all well and good to say "Clarkson is the best coach in the league" but the fact is he's got a forward line we'd be scoring 100 points a week with as easily as they are.

Skill errors or no skill errors, we've got more forward 50 entries than our opposition pretty much every week.
Ross said as much in his presser tonight, and then said "How does that happen"? and he's dead right.
It isn't the game plan. It's personnel.

You don't say?