Roughead - Forward or Back?

[Philhawk]

Roughead IMO has been one of the shrewdist recruitment decisions made by the Hawks in a long time. He was recruited as a CHF style player, but seems to fit in swimmingly down back. Given his attributes, good agility, strong pack mark, solid kick, should he be groomed in the long term as a CHF or a CHB? Given our lack in depth in the Forward department, I think we need to compromise our backline strength to ensure we develop some talented fowards. With Dowler also in the wings, I feel our Forward line should develop into something like ...

HF:   Franklin      Roughead      Williams

FF:   Miller          Dowler          Little/Murphy

With the Forward Pockets obviously something we need to work on.

Our backline isn't all that shabby, but once again we just need that big KPP backmen to strengthen things. The ploy of using Croad in the forward line just isn't working. He was AA CHB, so he should stick there. Our other backmen in Jacobs, Dawson, Smith, Guerra and Brown are all solid players in their own rights (OK maybe giving Dawson too much credit), but Jacobs is the tallest player of that lot and I dont think he is taller than 190/192cm?

FB:    Jacobs          Dawson         Guerra

HB:    Brown           Croad            Smith

That seems a reasonable backline, but if could just inject some more talls into there then we'd be on our way.

I suppose if we insist with using Roughy down back, then he could groom into a quality CHB. But while Croad is still around, he should stick to the position he is best at ...

Thoughts?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

atm - back - let him get confidence and an understanding of the game.

in future - forward - he is a big boy who can take a grab and his kicking is pretty good.

 

[Back Pocket Rocket]

Without getting too far in front of ourselves (and not allowing for future draft picks, ie Full Back this year) This could look ok:

Miller Dowler Williams

Little Roughead Franklin

Ellis Hodge Bateman

Birchall Croad Smith

Brown Dawson Jacobs


Bailey Mitchell Lewis

Muston Campbell Murphy Vandenburg

This would be assuming that Everitt and Crawf have retired. We would be hard and tough in the middle with runners coming from everywhere.

 

[Herbs hawks]

Lets skip forward to 2008.

FB: Brown Dawson Guerra
HB: Crawford Croad Ellis
C: Young Mitchell Bateman
HF: Birchell Roughead Franklin
FF: Williams Dowler Little
R: Campbell Hodge(c) Muston
Inter: Bailey, Lewis, Sewell, Ladson

Emg: Thurgood, Tuck, Clarke

Rest of list: Taylor, Miller, Boyle, Kane, Mcglynn, Vandenburg

GOne: Smith, Everitt, Dixon, Ries, Murphy, Brennan, Ball, Barker.

What do you think..........?

 

[HFC082]

Back

I like him at both ends, but he seems to be a natural backman.

 

[FCAGJAT]

He looked great in the forward tonight. He's one of your more exciting players to watch and he did a great job but unfortunately he didn't get much opportunities with the deliveries to him. Will be a gun

 

[Gary Shadforth]

Roughies' potential is huge. But I have one question about his game last night.

Has anyone stats on how many marks he dropped? Total please and in two catagories, a breakdown of contested and uncontested.

This is not a criticism of the kid as he has all the attributes of being an AFL great of the future. Just that I would like to see him hold onto grabs, vice-like.

As for the thrust of this thread, I feel he can play back or forward. Would like to see him settle into CHF with Croady back at CHB. We desperately need someone standing-up / dominating in both those postions on a very regular basis, just like all top teams.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Lets skip forward to 2008.

FB: Brown Dawson Guerra
HB: Crawford Croad Ellis
C: Young Mitchell Bateman
HF: Birchell Roughead Franklin
FF: Williams Dowler Little
R: Campbell Hodge(c) Muston
Inter: Bailey, Lewis, Sewell, Ladson

Emg: Thurgood, Tuck, Clarke

Rest of list: Taylor, Miller, Boyle, Kane, Mcglynn, Vandenburg

GOne: Smith, Everitt, Dixon, Ries, Murphy, Brennan, Ball, Barker.

What do you think..........?

HH bit hard on Murphy and not hard enough on Vanders

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lets skip forward to 2008.

FB: Brown Dawson Guerra
HB: Crawford Croad Ellis
C: Young Mitchell Bateman
HF: Birchell RougheadFranklin
FF: Williams Dowler Little
R: Campbell Hodge(c) Muston
Inter: Bailey, Lewis, Sewell, Ladson

Emg: Thurgood, Tuck, Clarke

Rest of list: Taylor, Miller, Boyle, Kane, Mcglynn, Vandenburg

GOne: Smith, Everitt, Dixon, Ries, Murphy, Brennan, Ball, Barker.

What do you think..........?

Miller, Boyle and possibly Clarke or Ladson won't be on our list in 2008.
Muston will most likely be a forward flank/wingman.

a spine of...
Dawson
Croad
Hodge
Roughead
Dowler

Looks very good for the future.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

a spine of...
Dawson
Croad
Hodge
Roughead
Dowler

Looks very good for the future.

Love it!

 

[tomthetiger]

Funny, you could easily swap him and croad. However, when Croad is gone, Roughead > CHB.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

at the moment i think roughy should stay down back, he seems far more combfortable then he does up forward. But who knows, int he future he may make a good CHF, but its a fair way off in my opinion

 

[Bantum9]

You win premierships with gun CHF. Roughie forward for mine.

 

[CyberKev]

Roughead, for mine, would be better suited to FF with Dowler operating out of CHF.

Roughead has the natural tendency and willingness to attack the pack and you get considerably more of those gathering just out from goal.

Given patience and a more targetted oportunity from our midfield, Roughead could monster sides out of the square. As a bonus, he has good recovery and fab handball skills.

 

[Buster the hawk]

Roughead is undoubtably the best recruiting decision made by the club in the last five years other than Luke Hodge and like Croady ,he looks as though he is going to become more than capable at either end of the ground but unfortunately due to the inconsistency of our team at the moment (as has been the case for the last five years)he has to be used on an as needed basis which means he is never really settled in a set position as yet.Hopefully this will all change soon because at the moment after Friday night's woeful performance we don't look to be much more further advanced as a team than what we were before he was recruited.

 

[Philhawk]

Roughead, for mine, would be better suited to FF with Dowler operating out of CHF.

Roughead has the natural tendency and willingness to attack the pack and you get considerably more of those gathering just out from goal.

Given patience and a more targetted oportunity from our midfield, Roughead could monster sides out of the square. As a bonus, he has good recovery and fab handball skills.

Fair point Kev, but the crux of the matter is that we drafted Dowler as a pure Full-Forward, something we havn't had at Hawthorn since Dunstall. While Roughy would probably be a better exponent of the pack mark, I think we just need to stick him at CHF for 3-4 rounds and see how he goes.

 

[burner1]

Im not sure if you can pigeon hole dowler as a ff just yet. Remember reading some of the draft threads last year and some were arguing that dowler would probably make a better chf, supposedly has a great tank and presents well. In his one game for box hill senoirs seemed to present and link up very well playing at chf.
While roughie may make a great chf i see him operating best in the hotspot area between ff and chf as brown and hall do, with dowler leading further up the ground providing an option. Agree that roughie should play chf at present till we get some more support.
Regardless of what happens would be nice having key fwds who can interchange between the 2 key fwd posts.

 

[cs61]

Roughead, for mine, would be better suited to FF with Dowler operating out of CHF.

Roughead has the natural tendency and willingness to attack the pack and you get considerably more of those gathering just out from goal.

Given patience and a more targetted oportunity from our midfield, Roughead could monster sides out of the square. As a bonus, he has good recovery and fab handball skills.

Agree with CK here.

Guys like Brown, Hall, Tredrea these days are playing from the square leading to about 40 from goal. That's where the one on one contests are still happening now and then. Roughead looks to be able to do this. He creates good space, and leads in the right areas. Once he starts holding his marks he'll be a real force around the square.

CHF is getting harder to play. You almost need two CHF's with the amount of ground you have to cover and how quickly the ball moves. Having Dowler at CHF, and Buddy on the flank also leading up the ground would create two mobile targets on half forward 'potentially' and then bomb long to the square or kick to the leading Willo.

I think we have a fair few options developing for us up forward. This is why Boyle only playing as a forward is surprising me at the moment, when its the backline that we are little short of developing players.

I'll presume Croad will be moved back at some stage, and he'll be the key player back there. Then you'd have Jacobs, Smith, Guerra and Sewell as the smaller guys, and Thurgood Murphy Dawson the developing players.

 

[CyberKev]

Agree with CK here.

Guys like Brown, Hall, Tredrea these days are playing from the square leading to about 40 from goal. That's where the one on one contests are still happening now and then. Roughead looks to be able to do this. He creates good space, and leads in the right areas. Once he starts holding his marks he'll be a real force around the square.

CHF is getting harder to play. You almost need two CHF's with the amount of ground you have to cover and how quickly the ball moves. Having Dowler at CHF, and Buddy on the flank also leading up the ground would create two mobile targets on half forward 'potentially' and then bomb long to the square or kick to the leading Willo.

I think we have a fair few options developing for us up forward. This is why Boyle only playing as a forward is surprising me at the moment, when its the backline that we are little short of developing players.

I'll presume Croad will be moved back at some stage, and he'll be the key player back there. Then you'd have Jacobs, Smith, Guerra and Sewell as the smaller guys, and Thurgood Murphy Dawson the developing players.

Good post, Schreuders.

I don't know where the idea that we drafted Dowler as a pure FF came from?!

From what I can gather, he played predominantly as a CHF, spending sometime at CHB during his TAC days.

Depending on where we finish this season, I can't see us overlooking one of the big five talls on offer.

The development rate of other talls (along with the usual injury issues) may well determine who plays where in future.

What I like about Roughead, Croad & Dowler is that they all have the capacity to play across the park, which is fantastic from a flexibility standpoint. This is the key point that is usually lost in the take KPP high or get by taking them low debate.

Almost invariably, if you want KPP to be able to play well forward and back, you have to get the elite young talls in the draft. If you're happy enough with just trying to mold a young tall into a key defender, you may be able to make a fist of it with your second rounder.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The one thing we should look for in the next KPP we pick up is a bit of 'mongrel'. Whether they play back or forward doesn't matter as we could swap roughie or croad to suit, but we need a CHF/CHB in the mold of Brown or Archer(deosn't every team?) who have the ability to intimidate. Roughie has shown a little bit of this......but I want more!

 

[Philhawk]

Good post, Schreuders.

I don't know where the idea that we drafted Dowler as a pure FF came from?!

From what I can gather, he played predominantly as a CHF, spending sometime at CHB during his TAC days.

Depending on where we finish this season, I can't see us overlooking one of the big five talls on offer.

The development rate of other talls (along with the usual injury issues) may well determine who plays where in future.

What I like about Roughead, Croad & Dowler is that they all have the capacity to play across the park, which is fantastic from a flexibility standpoint. This is the key point that is usually lost in the take KPP high or get by taking them low debate.

Almost invariably, if you want KPP to be able to play well forward and back, you have to get the elite young talls in the draft. If you're happy enough with just trying to mold a young tall into a key defender, you may be able to make a fist of it with your second rounder.

Just wondering where you see Buddy fitting into the scheme of things Kev. At this stage I do think he is best suited up in the forward line, though that being said i've never actually seen him play as a Back?

Having 4-5 marquee forwards is what we would love. Hopefully, if Dowler, Franklin, Roughy and Buddy can be a success at the highest level (tall order to ask for), then we should be right in the years to come.

 

[CyberKev]

Just wondering where you see Buddy fitting into the scheme of things Kev. At this stage I do think he is best suited up in the forward line, though that being said i've never actually seen him play as a Back?

Having 4-5 marquee forwards is what we would love. Hopefully, if Dowler, Franklin, Roughy and Buddy can be a success at the highest level (tall order to ask for), then we should be right in the years to come.

Buddy is very crucial to the mix.

Obviously the most likely place for him is as a mobile and creative third tall of a HFF.

That said, he could work well as a back-up CHF and also carries capacity as an outside midfielder.

It is this diversity that will provide us with the capacity to take another 2 talls come the next draft.

In an ideal world, Sydney will offer their first round pick for Everitt, we'll say "no worries", lift McEntee of the rookie list, use our first round pick on one of the gun talls and Sydney's on a quality outside midfielder. From there we can use the 2nd round pick on the best available key defender type and our third pick on Joshua Kennedy.

Were this to eventuate, it wouldn't surprise to see Franlin dropped back to a wing (in the interim) to allow the new young gun tall some debut play of a HFF sometime in 2007.

Obviously this is all highly speculative, but I like the cut of my own jib

 

[Buster the hawk]

The one thing we should look for in the next KPP we pick up is a bit of 'mongrel'. Whether they play back or forward doesn't matter as we could swap roughie or croad to suit, but we need a CHF/CHB in the mold of Brown or Archer(deosn't every team?) who have the ability to intimidate. Roughie has shown a little bit of this......but I want more!

There is a young CHB playing for Gippy Power ATM by name of Lachlin Hansen ,top age this year but has been in the U/18 comp since the age of 15 and throughout the whole time apparently has intimidated and thrown his weight around whilst still featuring among the best players most weeks and if we keep up the current form of last Friday night we might well get a crack at him come draft time.Even lives within our old traditional recruiting zone of Nar Nar Goon.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

Even lives within our old traditional recruiting zone of Nar Nar Goon.

Oh if we could have our old recruiting zones back again. If they hadn't done away with that system we would have remained a power.

Becoming a national comp put paid to it.

 

[Buster the hawk]

Oh if we could have our old recruiting zones back again. If they hadn't done away with that system we would have remained a power.

Becoming a national comp put paid to it.

Interesting Gary ,our old recruiting zone was primarily west gippsland which when you look at a map doesn't include a lot of high regional population centers compared with say Carlton who recruited from bendigo or St.Kilda who recruited from ballarat or even Footscray who had the pick of traralgon and sale,yet from small farming towns we got such players as Knights from longwarry and Russo and Jenke from Pakenham,Rowlings from Moe.Makes you wonder was it the disciplined coaching and Kennedy style discipline of the time or might there have been something in the water in west gippy that got us over the line for all those successful years?