Autopsy Round 12 - St Kilda defeats Melbourne

[Ricmel]

Nas could literally be the best player in the comp within two years.

I remember seeing him at training at Sandy oval, would have been one of his very first training sessions with the club and he spent most of the session standing next to a behind post watching (I think he must have had a niggle). I said to my mate next to me at the time "he'll never cope with AFL footy". His legs were like match sticks and I reckon he would have weighed under 70kgs. He looked like the wind would blow him over.

Undoubtedly we would get good compensation if he were to go but like others, I think Saints need to leave nothing on the table to keep him. Good half back flankers are not rare but NAS is almost redefining the role the way he gets from HBF to HFF. He is very rare talent and I don't think any compensation walks in and adds what he does to the team structure.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

As good as Wilkie, Steele, Butler, Jones, Sinclair & Clark were that was a win to highlight the potential of our youth.

NAS is the best player we have had at the club for sometime. Please get him signed Sainters!

I always thought Caminiti would make a good defender and he is proving us right.

Windhager played the most influential game ever for the club he is so disciplined.

Owens plays like a 200cm wrecking ball.

I was worried about our man Keeler after his first few games, but are now certain he will become a very valuable player.

Hall contributes every week.

Boxshall & Travaglia did enough to see a future.

The downside was if Melbourne had if kicked straight it would have been a very different result. They had 17 more inside 50's and 7 more scoring shots. Bad kicking is bad footy and although we dominated a lot of the game they had plenty of chances to win it.

Finally kudos the Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

, I haven't been a fan but his touches in the game were worth double of some others. Let's hope he can now get some continuity to his footy.

 

[Hubnester]

Is there anywhere to see a heatmap or a plotted image of where on the field scores were kicked from?

Would be interesting to see for this one.

 

[AirWinmar]

I honestly think Cama will be a much better key defender than Battle

 

[Ricmel]

I was worried about our man Keeler after his first few games, but are now certain he will become a very valuable player.

Probably the most valuable learning to come out of that game. I'd written him off - even on a small sample - but if he can regularly produce what he did yesterday, it is a game changer for Saints.

 

[EddieMurphy]

Stuck in the VFL

Bring back Dunnie?

 

[marcus1232]

Problem with umpiring is that they bring in more to adjudicate (4) due to game becoming faster but that now leads to increased inconsistency due to having more adjudicators ..... maybe going back to 3 is the answer.

Umpiring is hard ... its easy to miss things as you might not have direct line of sight .... I've done it before .... but its the inconsistency between similar acts where the problem lies

Today .... Johnson getting caught and given and eternity to dispose of it and then does so illegally .... no free ..... then a few minutes later Wood getting caught and given zero time to dispose of it and does so legally but gets pinged

Same end ... and you would think same umpire ... just infuriating

2 sling dump tackles .... one paid to Dees ... one not to us ..... same umpire? Not sure but infuriating nonetheless

The inconsistency is the issue

Ive been involved in umpiring my whole life.

I can tell you the reason they went to 4 umpires has everything to do with prolonging the careers of there senior umpires because there is nothing coming through the ranks and it is 100 percent to blame on the current AFL umpires and the insular bubble they live in.

A senior field umpire who umpires AFL finals will make approx 110-120k for a part time job (travel paid for by AFL)

A senior field umpire who umpires VFL finals will make approx 15k ( travel paid for by umpire)

A senior field umpire at local level will make approx 5k (potentially more if they double triple up on a day)

 

[Pardon me]

Is there anywhere to see a heatmap or a plotted image of where on the field scores were kicked from?

Would be interesting to see for this one.

Edit: added link -

 

[gringo2011]

Problem with umpiring is that they bring in more to adjudicate (4) due to game becoming faster but that now leads to increased inconsistency due to having more adjudicators ..... maybe going back to 3 is the answer.

Umpiring is hard ... its easy to miss things as you might not have direct line of sight .... I've done it before .... but its the inconsistency between similar acts where the problem lies

Today .... Johnson getting caught and given and eternity to dispose of it and then does so illegally .... no free ..... then a few minutes later Wood getting caught and given zero time to dispose of it and does so legally but gets pinged

Same end ... and you would think same umpire ... just infuriating

2 sling dump tackles .... one paid to Dees ... one not to us ..... same umpire? Not sure but infuriating nonetheless

The inconsistency is the issue

They have to be on the take. Surely that's beyond incompetence. Three weeks in a row we've been punished by one sided umpiring. It's either directed from AFL house to set narratives or the maggots are corrupt/incompetent.



Definitely the inconsistency that hurts most. There was also one where they paid holding the ball when the ball got knocked out in a tackle and seconds later it wasn't a free kick. It's like their only role is throw grenades from the sideline while the game goes on. They certainly don't make the game safer for players or guarantee a fair and even contest.

 

[gringo2011]

I honestly think Cama will be a much better key defender than Battle

Looks more like an upgrade on Howard to me. We need Tauru or someone else to step up into the third tall interceptor role.

 

[bergholt]

I remember seeing him at training at Sandy oval, would have been one of his very first training sessions with the club and he spent most of the session standing next to a behind post watching (I think he must have had a niggle). I said to my mate next to me at the time "he'll never cope with AFL footy". His legs were like match sticks and I reckon he would have weighed under 70kgs. He looked like the wind would blow him over.

Undoubtedly we would get good compensation if he were to go but like others, I think Saints need to leave nothing on the table to keep him. Good half back flankers are not rare but NAS is almost redefining the role the way he gets from HBF to HFF. He is very rare talent and I don't think any compensation walks in and adds what he does to the team structure.

I thought he was a waste of a pick, taking yet another HBF. Very glad to be wrong.

 

[gringo2011]

As good as Wilkie, Steele, Butler, Jones, Sinclair & Clark were that was a win to highlight the potential of our youth.

NAS is the best player we have had at the club for sometime. Please get him signed Sainters!

I always thought Caminiti would make a good defender and he is proving us right.

Windhager played the most influential game ever for the club he is so disciplined.

Owens plays like a 200cm wrecking ball.

I was worried about our man Keeler after his first few games, but are now certain he will become a very valuable player.

Hall contributes every week.

Boxshall & Travaglia did enough to see a future.

The downside was if Melbourne had if kicked straight it would have been a very different result. They had 17 more inside 50's and 7 more scoring shots. Bad kicking is bad footy and although we dominated a lot of the game they had plenty of chances to win it.

Finally kudos the Hunter Clark, I haven't been a fan but his touches in the game were worth double of some others. Let's hope he can now get some continuity to his footy.

Melbourne had more shots but they never looked like they gained momentum. Pretty much like us last week. There was a few absolute terrible misses but I think overall we outplayed them the whole match.

 

[cowboy18]

View attachment 2331744

Edit: added link -

The difference in where shots were taken from and the success rate for where they were taken from is striking. Thank you for posting that.

 

[cowboy18]

I have nothing of substance to add to this thread but gee I like the happy banter in autopsy threads when the saints win.

 

[Hubnester]

View attachment 2331744

Edit: added link -

Thanks for that. Very telling too, we didn't make it easy for them - look at our cluster of goals from directly in front compared to their barren goal square.

 

[phantom13]

Ive been involved in umpiring my whole life.

I can tell you the reason they went to 4 umpires has everything to do with prolonging the careers of there senior umpires because there is nothing coming through the ranks and it is 100 percent to blame on the current AFL umpires and the insular bubble they live in.

A senior field umpire who umpires AFL finals will make approx 110-120k for a part time job (travel paid for by AFL)

A senior field umpire who umpires VFL finals will make approx 15k ( travel paid for by umpire)

A senior field umpire at local level will make approx 5k (potentially more if they double triple up on a day)

I think one of the biggest issues with the current state of umpiring (and make no mistake its the worst ive seen in my 30 odd years of watching alot of footy) is the 4 umpire system.

Weve moved to more and more interpretation umpiring (insufficient intent, genuine attempt at disposal, dangerous tackle) and with more umpires there is more interpretations leading to more inconsistency.

The other thing we seem to be seeing more and more is umpires guessing on decisions. You would swear they have been instructed to pay something if they think it might be there rather than letting it go unless they see it.

The holding the ball yesterday, in particular, was farcical. We were told a couple years back that umpires would be quick on the whistle now (and it was to try and stop players being taken to ground and hitting their heads) then it just never actually happened. I think technically the Mason Wood one was probably correct under the way they WANT to adjudicate on HTB now its just that we saw one let go for far far longer not 2 minutes earlier about 15 metres from where his one happened.

I have a degree of sympathy because umpiring is a tough caper but i think theyre making it harder on themselves too.

Yesterday was the worst ive seen this year and its been a terrible year for it already.

 

[The Punter]

Thoughts:

• Hunter Clark. No more Clark libel on here please.
• Is Jack Steele
  9

  Jack Steele

  Age

  30

  Ht

  187cm

  Wt

  90kg

  Pos.

  Mid

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  20.9

  5star

  K

  8.7

  3star

  HB

  12.2

  5star

  M

  3.7

  4star

  T

  6.8

  5star

  CL

  3.6

  5star

  D

  21.3

  5star

  K

  10.0

  4star

  HB

  11.3

  5star

  M

  4.0

  4star

  T

  5.8

  5star

  CL

  4.6

  5star

  D

  16.8

  4star

  K

  5.0

  2star

  HB

  11.8

  5star

  M

  2.6

  3star

  T

  6.4

  5star

  CL

  3.6

  5star

  back? Looks to be running on the top of the ground now.
• I love how Caminiti plays big last quarters. Only improvement in front of him as a defender too.
• Would love to see Ryan Byrnes
  13

  Ryan Byrnes

  Age

  24

  Ht

  181cm

  Wt

  84kg

  Pos.

  D/M

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  5.0

  1star

  K

  2.0

  1star

  HB

  3.0

  3star

  M

  0.0

  1star

  T

  2.0

  4star

  MG

  1.0

  1star

  D

  5.0

  1star

  K

  2.0

  1star

  HB

  3.0

  2star

  M

  0.0

  1star

  T

  2.0

  3star

  MG

  1.0

  1star

  D

  5.0

  1star

  K

  2.0

  1star

  HB

  3.0

  3star

  M

  0.0

  1star

  T

  2.0

  4star

  MG

  1.0

  1star

  heat map. He was everywhere.
• Rowan's best game against Gawn.
• The only thing worse than the umpiring was ex-Melbourne footballers Gerard Healy and Jordan Lewis
  Jordan Lewis

  Age

  39

  Ht

  186cm

  Wt

  86kg

  Pos.

  D/M

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  23.5

  5star

  K

  12.1

  4star

  HB

  11.5

  5star

  M

  5.5

  5star

  T

  2.7

  4star

  MG

  310.5

  4star

  No current season stats available

  D

  15.0

  4star

  K

  6.8

  3star

  HB

  8.2

  5star

  M

  4.8

  5star

  T

  2.8

  5star

  on the Fox call.

 

[AirWinmar]

Looks more like an upgrade on Howard to me. We need Tauru or someone else to step up into the third tall interceptor role.

We disagree on the below items know, but once Howard comes back in that can be Wilkie AKA the wall. Tauru would be able too as well or Gus possibly. Cama is more than a pure stopper tho as he is taking a lot of intercepts himself

 

[Ads734]

Personally don’t see an issue with 4 umpires. Issue is the need to ‘Interpret’ rules and absolute spectrum at which rules are applied. Let’s not pretend that 3 umpires was any good.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

One thing I noticed watching on kayo was that at some stage Dwayne, when talking about Travaglia, referred to him as 'Tootsie'. Now has that actually been a nickname for him or is this definitive proof that Dwayne gets his material from Saints bigfooty? I thought it was a Dr Spaceman thing?

 

[Cleanupsoup]

Is there anywhere to see a heatmap or a plotted image of where on the field scores were kicked from?

Would be interesting to see for this one.

Seems we had much better shot quality

 

[The Punter]

Stat of the week:

St Kilda in 2025:

13 or more goals scored: 5-0
12 or fewer goals scored: 0-7

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Melbourne had more shots but they never looked like they gained momentum. Pretty much like us last week. There was a few absolute terrible misses but I think overall we outplayed them the whole match.

Its not simple efficiency.
Check out the map above, they had more shots, but they were not getting "good shots". Saints put themselves in a position to score.
If you drew an imaginary 40 metre arc, the Saints missed a few from there too, however most of our shots were closer.
Five of their shots were from outside 50, they got one.
One of our shots was from outside 50 , we missed. ( we might have got one if Keeler hadn't had a sudden brain fade ).

 

[MordySaint]

Good win Sainters. Enjoyed watching the game in Alice, beautiful backdrop and great to get a win there.

Season alive, there is a heartbeat.

Just do whatever it takes to sign NAS.

 

[phantom13]

Personally don’t see an issue with 4 umpires. Issue is the need to ‘Interpret’ rules and absolute spectrum at which rules are applied. Let’s not pretend that 3 umpires was any good.

Simple maths, if so many of the rules are open to interpretation another person in the mix is another potential interpretation.

Its clearly an issue (or at least part of the issue).

Good, debatable i suppose, better than current, indisputable.