Review Round 13, 2020 - Brisbane Lions vs. St. Kilda

[Stevo7]

First step is admitting we have a problem.
Fages - stop dodging it. We have a problem.

Back em up publicly, challenge them privately,

 

[Gadzorks]

Some amazing in depth investigative journalism from Shane Crawford on Full Time when critiquing our chances of a flag this season, "they will need to kick goals to win finals". Mmmm well butter my butt and call me a biscuit, who would have thunk it, Shane has found the key to unlock finals success, I'm going to link that advice in an email to Fages and he can get to work on it.

I’m so using this phrase. Thank you for enriching my ability to embarrass my kids. Absolutely love it.

 

[Maroon Monsoon]

Did anyone else notice the guidance that Harris was providing his backline that game, particularly last three or four minutes? Given he's been vice captain for a few seasons now his leadership has presumably always been great but I've noticed a bit of a change in his on field demeanour this year where he's been more vocal in providing direction. Its great to see, presumably its down to that role being vacated by hodgy when he retired

 

[Gadzorks]

Last night I watched a post game interview with jarrod berry. Can’t find it now but in it he said something about not thinking his legs had ‘it’ (being energy) in them.

I wanted to rewatch to work out if that comment was related to last nights game, or if it was more of an ongoing thing.

We really don’t know what level of fatigue the shortened format is causing, and if it’s in turn, causing kicking problems.

Was it last year or the year before where the same players were the most accurate across the league? I’ve lost track of time

 

[Dylan12]

Did anyone else notice the guidance that Harris was providing his backline that game, particularly last three or four minutes? Given he's been vice captain for a few seasons now his leadership has presumably always been great but I've noticed a bit of a change in his on field demeanour this year where he's been more vocal in providing direction. Its great to see, presumably its down to that role being vacated by hodgy when he retired

I sincerely hope Harris is installed as Captain next year.

Zorko rarely leads from the front anymore, doesn't do the team things, doesn't set the example and kick captain's goals and still stages for frees and carries on way too much for a captain. Plus with his age and injury concerns, I think he'd be better suited to just worrying about getting himself right to play and pass the reigns to Harris.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Biggest positive is some key guys turning around their form - Berry was outstanding, McCluggage, while not back to his absolute best was great, and I thought Gardiner was really strong in what has been an up-and-down year from him (unlucky to gift Marshall a goal with that holding call).

I've been harsh on Mitch Robbo this year but I thought he was better today too. Granted 6 touches doesn't look good on the stat sheet but he had some important contests today.

The Marshall gift was probably partially repaid when the umps didn't pay in the back against Dizzy on Membrey inside the last minute.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I sincerely hope Harris is installed as Captain next year.

Zorko rarely leads from the front anymore, doesn't do the team things, doesn't set the example and kick captain's goals and still stages for frees and carries on way too much for a captain. Plus with his age and injury concerns, I think he'd be better suited to just worrying about getting himself right to play and pass the reigns to Harris.

Interesting that they put Zorko to the backline in the last few minutes. Not as sure down there as he is further up the field. But in his defence, everyone was dead tired by then and mistakes will happen.

 

[dlanod]

The Marshall gift was probably partially repaid when the umps didn't pay in the back against Dizzy on Membrey inside the last minute.

Dizzy was smart enough to get his hands on one side (enough to give deniability) and also on the opposite side to the umpire but yes, I was expecting a whistle to blow there.

 

[KissKiss]

Last night I watched a post game interview with jarrod berry. Can’t find it now but in it he said something about not thinking his legs had ‘it’ (being energy) in them.

I wanted to rewatch to work out if that comment was related to last nights game, or if it was more of an ongoing thing.

We really don’t know what level of fatigue the shortened format is causing, and if it’s in turn, causing kicking problems.

Was it last year or the year before where the same players were the most accurate across the league? I’ve lost track of time

I think that was after Hodge asked him about his goal from 50. Was discussion about it being on the edge of his range for goal kicking. He had passed off the shot from a few metres further out just before it but then marked the clearing kick so had a go slightly closer in. Hodge said he didnt think Berry had that range and Berry agreed.

 

[Dalions]

Last night I watched a post game interview with jarrod berry. Can’t find it now but in it he said something about not thinking his legs had ‘it’ (being energy) in them.

I wanted to rewatch to work out if that comment was related to last nights game, or if it was more of an ongoing thing.

We really don’t know what level of fatigue the shortened format is causing, and if it’s in turn, causing kicking problems.

Was it last year or the year before where the same players were the most accurate across the league? I’ve lost track of time

Pretty sure that was in relation to his long kick for goal in the first quarter I think.
He wasn’t sure he had the legs to get it home because he was kicking from outside 50.

 

[Dylan12]

Last night I watched a post game interview with jarrod berry. Can’t find it now but in it he said something about not thinking his legs had ‘it’ (being energy) in them.

I wanted to rewatch to work out if that comment was related to last nights game, or if it was more of an ongoing thing.

We really don’t know what level of fatigue the shortened format is causing, and if it’s in turn, causing kicking problems.

Was it last year or the year before where the same players were the most accurate across the league? I’ve lost track of time

Initially, I was going to respond and say that most of our misses in 2020 have been in the first quarter of our games, but I thought I'd check our points tally across the board and the stats are pretty even with the first and third quarters only marginally worse than our 2nd and 4th quarters when we are most freshest.

To round it, I also included our win / loss record per quarter and our overall differential compared to our opponents.

1st Q - 43 (Won 10 / Lost 2 / Drawn 1) (+70 (33 goals for to 24 against)) - 33.43.241
2nd Q - 37 (Won 8 / Lost 5 / Drawn 0) (+77 (35 goals for to 27 against)) - 35.37.247
3rd Q - 41 (Won 8 / Lost 4 / Drawn 1) (+11 (33 goals for to 34 against)) - 33.41.239
4th Q - 38 (Won 5 / Lost 8 / Drawn 0) (-15 (23 goals for to 27 against)) - 23.38.176

Totals - 159 behinds (Won 31 / Lost 19 / Drawn 2) (+134 (124 goals for to 112 against)) or overall 124.159.903 to 112.97.769.

What is most glaring is how much we drop away in final quarters, in both quarters won and our goal tally.

There is a lot in what you posted re Jarrod's comments. Doesn't bode well come finals time unless we accumulate a significant lead.

 

[Macca225]

Last night I watched a post game interview with jarrod berry. Can’t find it now but in it he said something about not thinking his legs had ‘it’ (being energy) in them.

I wanted to rewatch to work out if that comment was related to last nights game, or if it was more of an ongoing thing.

We really don’t know what level of fatigue the shortened format is causing, and if it’s in turn, causing kicking problems.

Was it last year or the year before where the same players were the most accurate across the league? I’ve lost track of time

 

[TheZork]

Initially, I was going to respond and say that most of our misses in 2020 have been in the first quarter of our games, but I thought I'd check our points tally across the board and the stats are pretty even with the first and third quarters only marginally worse than our 2nd and 4th quarters when we are most freshest.

To round it, I also included our win / loss record per quarter and our overall differential compared to our opponents.

1st Q - 43 (Won 10 / Lost 2 / Drawn 1) (+70 (33 goals for to 24 against)) - 33.43.241
2nd Q - 37 (Won 8 / Lost 5 / Drawn 0) (+77 (35 goals for to 27 against)) - 35.37.247
3rd Q - 41 (Won 8 / Lost 4 / Drawn 1) (+11 (33 goals for to 34 against)) - 33.41.239
4th Q - 38 (Won 5 / Lost 8 / Drawn 0) (-15 (23 goals for to 27 against)) - 23.38.176

Totals - 159 behinds (Won 31 / Lost 19 / Drawn 2) (+134 (118 goals for to 99 against)) or overall 124.159.903 to 112.97.769.

What is most glaring is how much we drop away in final quarters, in both quarters won and our goal tally.

There is a lot in what you posted re Jarrod's comments. Doesn't bode well come finals time unless we accumulate a significant lead.

? Jarrod was talking about getting the journey from 55m, not about running out the game.

There is also an element of us managing games in the last, which should be taken into account with those stats. In a lot of our good wins we've been well ahead and just coasted last quarter. Also we haven't learnt to put teams to the sword yet. I don't think its fatigue.

The players can 100% run out 4x 16 minute quarters. The stat doesn't tell the whole story imo.

 

[Tom14]

I have absolutely no data to back this up, but I think the fact that there was no CEY or Matho to take up time on ball contributed to Berry's great game - he looked lost hte last few weeks playing up forward and while I don't think he is terrible there or on the wing, he should be getting max midfield time as the 4th in the rotation behind the obvious 3 to perform at his best.

 

[Quigley]

That was one of the most frustrating games to watch in recent times. Not just the goal kicking but generally we were just dumb all day. We made bad decisions with the ball, bad decisions without the ball and let St Kilda into a game they had no right to be in. St Kilda tried hard but were poor which saved us. The St Kilda effort was better than us but they were that much worse with the ball than we were.

One of the things raised in one of the post game shows was that we are currently ranked 12th for opponent scores when they enter the 50. We push up and pressure well but get caught on the break a lot with our mids not getting back and in one on ones at the back our defensive unit is quite poor. We are undersized and carry a few poor and prone to error defenders. In the last few years all the grand finalists have been in the top 5 in that stat and we are in the bottom 7. I think our balance needs to be addressed.

On some of the players:

Zorko - is getting a fair bit of criticism but overall I thought it was a pretty decent game by Dane. He lead the way with 21 disposals and whilst he was a bit hit and miss with his disposals he was reasonable. The one area where he needs to improve is his tackling. Too many times he Olay'd the guy he was trying to tackle and just threw out an arm.

Fullarton - a lot has been said and I agree with most. He showed good mobility and had an influence which was great from a first gamer. He does need to learn how to neutralise the ruck contest. His kicking style does worry me. He is not fluid and tends to have his head and eyes down more than is ideal. He kicks a bit like a lot of the Irishmen when they first start.

Andrews - was immense at the back. He hides so many deficiencies of our back six it is not funny. He seemed to be freed up quite a lot to play on secondary targets and used that to get across and impact other contests. He is our most important player.

Berry - was huge in the first quarter and good for the whole day. On a day when our older, prime mids had down days he picked up the slack and was a big factor in our win.

Bailey - another guy who picked up the slack. He is full time on a wing now and gets up and down the park making plays. He is becoming a very important player for us.

Ah Chee - was a liability in the first half and only marginally better than that in the second. He got a decent amount of the ball but used it badly and cost us opportunities to score and gave opportunities to the Saints. I know he is Fages' redemption story for this year but he has been pretty ordinary for most of his games this year and the last couple and on form should be dropped.

Witherden - if he is not using the ball well there is no reason for him to be in the side. He got a reasonable amount of the ball but used it poorly on the weekend. Interestingly he was given the kick in duties in this game which would indicate that they are having confidence in him again. With that said I am with most and seeing him being the one to make way for Rich.

Birchall - at least Witherden was getting the ball. Birchall is only in the team to distribute the ball and 6 disposals is nowhere near enough. He is a liability defensively and generally slow around the ground. He was worse than Witherden by a decent margin in this game but has a few more credits so keeps his spot but if he plays like this too much more than we cannot carry him into a final.

McStay - was a complete non factor and ably demonstrated why a lot of people question his worth to the team. He had one chance on goal, directly in front and could not convert. Terrible game.

Hipwood - played exactly the sort of game he should play each week. He got on his bike and worked hard around the ground and his defender just could not keep up. If he could have converted it would have been close to his best game ever. I think it is time to consign to history the turned in left shoulder straight approach to his set shot and just go with his natural arc. Let him do something which feels natural and even if he does not get them all at least he is likely to get some.

Gardner - had a couple of brain fades in the last two or three minutes which might have cost us the game it just happened that the umpires did not call it. He was very very lucky imo. He again did not handle the big opponent well and was lucky that the Saints bigs had as much trouble converting as ours.

Answerth - did a pretty good job defensively but with ball he made quite a few errors which would not have pleased the coach. He is another who would not be sitting easily at selection time next week.

Robinson - did not get much of it but cracked in and I assume was doing a job on Billings who was a non factor for three quarters.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Years ago I was doing an AFL Coaches course at Kardinia Park and we had a session with Malcolm Blight who was, amongst other things, talking about the mental process involved when taking a set shot. It was interesting because the process was all about closing out the sound of the crowd and before you had your shot slowing your breathing and visualising the ball drop, connection and the sight of the ball going straight through the middle. Made perfect sense in terms of concentration and focus in that moment. It is a different sort of training, because most of the other skills rely on instinct and reflex. This is something we should increase our focus on, because the players are looking defeated before they have even had their shot. I think dlanod might have made the observation, but it is not just that they are missing, but how horribly they are missing from close in. When you have a key forward(s) regularly splitting the goal and point posts instead of the big sticks from 25 - 30 metres out you have a problem that won’t go away by itself. Perhaps it’s time to address the psychological aspect, because you would have to think they have tried the bio-mechanical components already.

There is a baseball movie about this - For The Love Of The Game. A ageing pitcher (Kevin Costner he looks like me) is still trying to play the game, one last season. Each time on the mound he says to himself - clear the mechanism. The director shows that as tunnel vision from his hand to the catcher's glove, the visualisation of a tunnel where there is only silence. Mind you much easier said than done, poor Hippy looks totally shot, I was afraid if he had another shot he was going to miss his foot completely. He had a good game, got the ball when and where he should but boy oh boy, his confidence is gone.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Did anyone else notice the guidance that Harris was providing his backline that game, particularly last three or four minutes? Given he's been vice captain for a few seasons now his leadership has presumably always been great but I've noticed a bit of a change in his on field demeanour this year where he's been more vocal in providing direction. Its great to see, presumably its down to that role being vacated by hodgy when he retired

I think he was a born leader, hence the nickname Dad. I remember him driving Berry and McCluggage to their first training run and he had a dash cam on in his car. He was asking their nicknames and McCluggage was saying he didn't have one. They did the same interview on the way home and he asks McCluggage the same question - McCluggage reluctantly answers - yes, it is now Bags. It still makes me laugh.

 

[FLVanLandingham]

Anyone know what McCarthy did that Fages was so unhappy with after the siren? I don't remember any particular moment

 

[M Malice]

Anyone know what McCarthy did that Fages was so unhappy with after the siren? I don't remember any particular moment

I think it was because on the bench with a minute or 2 to go they were screaming for players to come off and they were having trouble getting it done, may of been because Linc didn't show enough urgency getting off the ground.

 

[T Rick]

Took a big mark, kicked a goal on the run when no-one else could, handed off another, provided relief in the ruck.

Fullarton was one of our mvp's today and is my favourite player until further notice.

So good to have a debutant that excited and showed glimpses and didn't look out of place at all...exciting stuff!

 

[MacMum]

Anyone know what McCarthy did that Fages was so unhappy with after the siren? I don't remember any particular moment

We saw and commented on that too......have no idea what it was about though

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I think it was because on the bench with a minute or 2 to go they were screaming for players to come off and they were having trouble getting it done, may of been because Linc didn't show enough urgency getting off the ground.

Saints had the same issue in the last minute. Ross and Butler and someone else on the bench and couldn't get them on. Ratten was going off too. The problem has been accentuated if not caused by the ban on runners.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Initially, I was going to respond and say that most of our misses in 2020 have been in the first quarter of our games, but I thought I'd check our points tally across the board and the stats are pretty even with the first and third quarters only marginally worse than our 2nd and 4th quarters when we are most freshest.

To round it, I also included our win / loss record per quarter and our overall differential compared to our opponents.

1st Q - 43 (Won 10 / Lost 2 / Drawn 1) (+70 (33 goals for to 24 against)) - 33.43.241
2nd Q - 37 (Won 8 / Lost 5 / Drawn 0) (+77 (35 goals for to 27 against)) - 35.37.247
3rd Q - 41 (Won 8 / Lost 4 / Drawn 1) (+11 (33 goals for to 34 against)) - 33.41.239
4th Q - 38 (Won 5 / Lost 8 / Drawn 0) (-15 (23 goals for to 27 against)) - 23.38.176

Totals - 159 behinds (Won 31 / Lost 19 / Drawn 2) (+134 (118 goals for to 99 against)) or overall 124.159.903 to 112.97.769.

What is most glaring is how much we drop away in final quarters, in both quarters won and our goal tally.

There is a lot in what you posted re Jarrod's comments. Doesn't bode well come finals time unless we accumulate a significant lead.

Good stuff with the analysis Dylan.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

That was one of the most frustrating games to watch in recent times. Not just the goal kicking but generally we were just dumb all day. We made bad decisions with the ball, bad decisions without the ball and let St Kilda into a game they had no right to be in. St Kilda tried hard but were poor which saved us. The St Kilda effort was better than us but they were that much worse with the ball than we were.

One of the things raised in one of the post game shows was that we are currently ranked 12th for opponent scores when they enter the 50. We push up and pressure well but get caught on the break a lot with our mids not getting back and in one on ones at the back our defensive unit is quite poor. We are undersized and carry a few poor and prone to error defenders. In the last few years all the grand finalists have been in the top 5 in that stat and we are in the bottom 7. I think our balance needs to be addressed.

On some of the players:

Zorko - is getting a fair bit of criticism but overall I thought it was a pretty decent game by Dane. He lead the way with 21 disposals and whilst he was a bit hit and miss with his disposals he was reasonable. The one area where he needs to improve is his tackling. Too many times he Olay'd the guy he was trying to tackle and just threw out an arm.

Fullarton - a lot has been said and I agree with most. He showed good mobility and had an influence which was great from a first gamer. He does need to learn how to neutralise the ruck contest. His kicking style does worry me. He is not fluid and tends to have his head and eyes down more than is ideal. He kicks a bit like a lot of the Irishmen when they first start.

Andrews - was immense at the back. He hides so many deficiencies of our back six it is not funny. He seemed to be freed up quite a lot to play on secondary targets and used that to get across and impact other contests. He is our most important player.

Berry - was huge in the first quarter and good for the whole day. On a day when our older, prime mids had down days he picked up the slack and was a big factor in our win.

Bailey - another guy who picked up the slack. He is full time on a wing now and gets up and down the park making plays. He is becoming a very important player for us.

Ah Chee - was a liability in the first half and only marginally better than that in the second. He got a decent amount of the ball but used it badly and cost us opportunities to score and gave opportunities to the Saints. I know he is Fages' redemption story for this year but he has been pretty ordinary for most of his games this year and the last couple and on form should be dropped.

Witherden - if he is not using the ball well there is no reason for him to be in the side. He got a reasonable amount of the ball but used it poorly on the weekend. Interestingly he was given the kick in duties in this game which would indicate that they are having confidence in him again. With that said I am with most and seeing him being the one to make way for Rich.

Birchall - at least Witherden was getting the ball. Birchall is only in the team to distribute the ball and 6 disposals is nowhere near enough. He is a liability defensively and generally slow around the ground. He was worse than Witherden by a decent margin in this game but has a few more credits so keeps his spot but if he plays like this too much more than we cannot carry him into a final.

McStay - was a complete non factor and ably demonstrated why a lot of people question his worth to the team. He had one chance on goal, directly in front and could not convert. Terrible game.

Hipwood - played exactly the sort of game he should play each week. He got on his bike and worked hard around the ground and his defender just could not keep up. If he could have converted it would have been close to his best game ever. I think it is time to consign to history the turned in left shoulder straight approach to his set shot and just go with his natural arc. Let him do something which feels natural and even if he does not get them all at least he is likely to get some.

Gardner - had a couple of brain fades in the last two or three minutes which might have cost us the game it just happened that the umpires did not call it. He was very very lucky imo. He again did not handle the big opponent well and was lucky that the Saints bigs had as much trouble converting as ours.

Answerth - did a pretty good job defensively but with ball he made quite a few errors which would not have pleased the coach. He is another who would not be sitting easily at selection time next week.

Robinson - did not get much of it but cracked in and I assume was doing a job on Billings who was a non factor for three quarters.

The list of players not up to standard at the moment just empahises both how well we are coached and how much improvement we have in us. To be winning tight contests with our concerns in defence and shambolic goal-kicking is a minor miracle. Fages and his team are the difference in my view. Ratten remarked how well coached we are and I think it was genuine not just lip service.

 

[jackess]

The list of players not up to standard at the moment just empahises both how well we are coached and how much improvement we have in us. To be winning tight contests with our concerns in defence and shambolic goal-kicking is a minor miracle. Fages and his team are the difference in my view. Ratten remarked how well coached we are and I think it was genuine not just lip service.

Fagan was voted by the coaches 'coach of 2019'