Review Round 15, 2020 - Brisbane Lions vs. Collingwood

Who were your five best players against Collingwood?


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Johnny Bananas

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Had a few Pies behind me all night carrying on with some absolute rubbish how hard done by they were, how all Lions fans were bandwagoners, "I'll bet this guy wasn't here 3 years ago when they were rubbish", a bit annoying to hear all night but made the win feel better.
There seems to be some absolute knob sitting next to, in front of or behind me every time I go to Brisbane v Collingwood.
 

Johnny Bananas

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Lester struggled a bit on Cox as expected, giving up 20 odd cms.
This is why I think we shouldn't have dropped Payne. At least in some games, we need a second KPD or we get outmatched in height. And the club knows this, I assume that's why Adams was brought in. When Adams went down I think Payne should have come in, but instead they've relied on Gardiner or Lester playing tall.
 

jackess

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This is why I think we shouldn't have dropped Payne. At least in some games, we need a second KPD or we get outmatched in height. And the club knows this, I assume that's why Adams was brought in. When Adams went down I think Payne should have come in, but instead they've relied on Gardiner or Lester playing tall.
Did it really hurt us against Collingwood though?
 

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jackess

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That's not the point. The point is, what lineup gives us the best chance of winning? If someone can make a compelling case why playing just one true KPD is the best strategy for us, I'll concede.
Well we did it and they really struggled to kick any goals. Friday night was the evidence.

I would have played Payne instead of Birchall but in hindsight it wouldn't have made much difference.
 

Johnny Bananas

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Well we did it and they really struggled to kick any goals. Friday night was the evidence.

I would have played Payne instead of Birchall but in hindsight it wouldn't have made much difference.
Okay. But if in future we're in a very close game, we've only played one KPD and one of the opposition forwards uses their height advantage to get marks and kick a bag, won't we wish we had played two KPDs?

Or supposing we do play two KPDs and one of them is Payne, but he looks a little overawed like he did against Richmond just due to not having enough senior experience, won't we wish we'd pumped a couple more games into him? Fortunately he has a shot with the remaining games this season, and we're in a position where we probably won't have to win them all to stay top 4.

I'm not taking anything away from Fagan and friends for the win against Collingwood. Their strategy worked and we deserved to win. My concern is about the future.
 
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jjami15

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In regards to Payne I would pull him aside and say you’re in for as long as Harris is out. Take away any stress of being dropped and let him learn/make mistakes and see how he goes. It could be the making of him. He could go into the next pre-season with that extra knowledge of what it it is like to play at that level and give him that drive to make it his own. I have always been a believer that we are one big KPD short and we hopefully already have him on our list.
 

jackess

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Yeah but would you rather get Payne in for Collingwood than first game against Richmond then nothing right.. if Harris didn't go down Payne's second game might have been in finals. Not good prep in my view.
So we play weaker sides during the season potentially costing us 2 home finals in case we get injuries in The finals? It’s a bold strategy.

Although I would’ve played Payne more already because I think our structure would be better but I’m happy for the coaches to select the best team they think for each week.
 

Jason mp

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Okay. But if in future we're in a very close game, we've only played one KPD and one of the opposition forwards uses their height advantage to get marks and kick a bag, won't we wish we had played two KPDs?

Or supposing we do play two KPDs and one of them is Payne, but he looks a little overawed like he did against Richmond just due to not having enough senior experience, won't we wish we'd pumped a couple more games into him? Fortunately he has a shot with the remaining games this season, and we're in a position where we probably won't have to win them all to stay top 4.

I'm not taking anything away from Fagan and friends for the win against Collingwood. Their strategy worked and we deserved to win. My concern is about the future.
I agree that the best type of defensive setup is 2 key talls, 3rd tall/hybrid player, 3 medium/smalls players.

I think that is why Adams was traded in, ideally the coaches would have liked-

Rich, Andrews, Starcevich.
Gardiner, Adams, Answerth.

Rotating off bench- one of Ah Chee/Lester/Birchall.

As we are now Gardiner is playing as the 2nd tall and Lester(who has done a fantastic job) is playing as the 3rd tall, we are working with what we got.
 

martinson

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So we play weaker sides during the season potentially costing us 2 home finals in case we get injuries in The finals? It’s a bold strategy.

Although I would’ve played Payne more already because I think our structure would be better but I’m happy for the coaches to select the best team they think for each week.
In this shortened season every win is vital as you can see how crowded it is at the top of the table. So you can't afford to give away games just to blood people . I'm sure if it was a regular season Payne might have played some more games but he'll get his chance this week in any case you would think.
 

Paul Mac

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There seems to be some absolute knob sitting next to, in front of or behind me every time I go to Brisbane v Collingwood.
Was just about to post the exact some quote. Every time we play them we ALWAYS cop some people who think they are above what the normal people, are allowed to say( or swear ) at the footy, and when you have a quiet word with them it nearly ends up in a brawl because they think they are far superior than anyone else.
 

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luthor

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Was just about to post the exact some quote. Every time we play them we ALWAYS cop some people who think they are above what the normal people, are allowed to say( or swear ) at the footy, and when you have a quiet word with them it nearly ends up in a brawl because they think they are far superior than anyone else.

Just lucky I suppose but I can't even remember having an issue with oppo supporters at the Gabba. A fella and his partner were a few seats away barracking hard for the Saints when we played them but it was all good natured .They obviously knew where the boundaries were and respected the fact they were pretty much surrounded by Lions supporters.
 

davemc_lions

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from what I seen of Payne in the NEAFL he is not a direct Andrews replacement.
Eagles/Walker played the interceptor role in the NEAFL last year
He plays more like Darcy.. Lock down defender. So Darcy or Lester have to player intercepter.
Or do we play Payne and drop Lester.
Get McStay back and play Skinner/Ballenden forward.
 

martinson

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from what I seen of Payne in the NEAFL he is not a direct Andrews replacement.
Eagles/Walker played the interceptor role in the NEAFL last year
He plays more like Darcy.. Lock down defender. So Darcy or Lester have to player intercepter.
Or do we play Payne and drop Lester.
Get McStay back and play Skinner/Ballenden forward.
I'm all for playing McStay back but don't think it will happen
 

mpal6

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So we play weaker sides during the season potentially costing us 2 home finals in case we get injuries in The finals? It’s a bold strategy.

Although I would’ve played Payne more already because I think our structure would be better but I’m happy for the coaches to select the best team they think for each week.
Let me go twist your words as well - are you saying playing Payne makes us weak? A weaker side? May be Payne won't make it, it's a horrible decision to contract him till 2021.. May be we should never ever play him and delist him end of this year !!!! shock horror !!!!

All I said is we could have got him more regular games along the way against teams like North and Adelaide etc. It's a fine balance around getting games into him vs keeping our wins going + not making us structurally too weak. Now our hand is forced and he'll get it regardless, unless we choose to play Eagles again (which we might) and save Payne's 2nd game for finals. Let's fail in finals and then stand around applauding this even bolder strategy.
 

jackess

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Let me go twist your words as well - are you saying playing Payne makes us weak? A weaker side? May be Payne won't make it, it's a horrible decision to contract him till 2021.. May be we should never ever play him and delist him end of this year !!!! shock horror !!!!

All I said is we could have got him more regular games along the way against teams like North and Adelaide etc. It's a fine balance around getting games into him vs keeping our wins going + not making us structurally too weak. Now our hand is forced and he'll get it regardless, unless we choose to play Eagles again (which we might) and save Payne's 2nd game for finals. Let's fail in finals and then stand around applauding this even bolder strategy.
you’re making some pretty big assumptions that the coaches would have a much better idea about.
1. that 2-3 extra games will make a large improvement for someone coming in and playing finals
2. that rotating depth wouldn’t have a big impact on form (we heard from Zorko that keeping the same team helps keep form)

We shouldn’t be messing with form just to give our 4th in line key back a bit of extra experience.

Would be like giving Ballenden a bunch a games forward, Fullarton in the ruck, Robertson in the middle, Hinge as a distributor down back. It would just be too dangerous to rotate 30 players through our starting 22
 

Johnny Bananas

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I agree that the best type of defensive setup is 2 key talls, 3rd tall/hybrid player, 3 medium/smalls players.

I think that is why Adams was traded in, ideally the coaches would have liked-

Rich, Andrews, Starcevich.
Gardiner, Adams, Answerth.

Rotating off bench- one of Ah Chee/Lester/Birchall.

As we are now Gardiner is playing as the 2nd tall and Lester(who has done a fantastic job) is playing as the 3rd tall, we are working with what we got.
Are we? We're shoehorning Gardiner into the 2nd tall role instead of playing Payne, an actual tall.
 

mpal6

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you’re making some pretty big assumptions that the coaches would have a much better idea about.
1. that 2-3 extra games will make a large improvement for someone coming in and playing finals
2. that rotating depth wouldn’t have a big impact on form (we heard from Zorko that keeping the same team helps keep form)

We shouldn’t be messing with form just to give our 4th in line key back a bit of extra experience.

Would be like giving Ballenden a bunch a games forward, Fullarton in the ruck, Robertson in the middle, Hinge as a distributor down back. It would just be too dangerous to rotate 30 players through our starting 22
No one was asking to rotate 30 on starting 22. You keep extrapolating new theories and stating as if others are saying it.

We brought Payne in to play on Lynch - Richmond. We dropped him after 1 game. There is no clear second tall defender available in our list to play on the opposition 2 tall forward line. That premise has not changed, at all, in the last 4 rounds. Now Richmond are not going away or 2 tall forward line is not going away, but we are not doing anything meaningful to build towards it.

Take for example, St.Kilda.

[28] Tim Membrey,[12] Max King,[19] Rowan Marshall
[8] Bradley Hill,[26] Josh Battle,[16] Dan Butler

That was a 3 tall forward line. Payne had a role to play there. Granted we won by 2 points, but if we are not using him against teams where there is a clear role for him to play, we'll make up numbers come finals. This discussion is academic now anyway, either Payne or Eagles will be coming in next round. Let's see how they go.

that 2-3 extra games will make a large improvement for someone coming in and playing finals
Disagree, 2-3 games is better than coming in with nothing and be all at sea, no chemistry with rest of the backline.
 

LIONS08

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No one was asking to rotate 30 on starting 22. You keep extrapolating new theories and stating as if others are saying it.

We brought Payne in to play on Lynch - Richmond. We dropped him after 1 game. There is no clear second tall defender available in our list to play on the opposition 2 tall forward line. That premise has not changed, at all, in the last 4 rounds. Now Richmond are not going away or 2 tall forward line is not going away, but we are not doing anything meaningful to build towards it.

Take for example, St.Kilda.

[28] Tim Membrey,[12] Max King,[19] Rowan Marshall
[8] Bradley Hill,[26] Josh Battle,[16] Dan Butler

That was a 3 tall forward line. Payne had a role to play there. Granted we won by 2 points, but if we are not using him against teams where there is a clear role for him to play, we'll make up numbers come finals. This discussion is academic now anyway, either Payne or Eagles will be coming in next round. Let's see how they go.

that 2-3 extra games will make a large improvement for someone coming in and playing finals
Disagree, 2-3 games is better than coming in with nothing and be all at sea, no chemistry with rest of the backline.
While I completely agree we need Payne in while Andrews is out, I disagree that we require him when playing against three talls. All year we have played as a defensive unit. It is very rare now that the ball comes in to a one on one contest, and when is does it’s typically Harris and he can handle just about anyone. We set up as a defensive unit rather than one on one. The amount of times one of our other defenders fly to help in a contest is unreal! We are a real unit. Payne to play that more lockdown role and Lester will become the interceptor.
 

braddsey

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So Maynard gets cited and fined for instigating a melee and Mitch doesn’t get a free kick? Umpires were disgraceful last night and should be dropped. Club needs to issue a PLEASE EXPLAIN!
Yep - umpires at least partially responsible for the melee. Issue a free to Mitch take the heat out of it. Brisbane players would pull back for fear of it being reversed. Terrible effort from umpires and this is the result.
 

Johnny Bananas

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Just lucky I suppose but I can't even remember having an issue with oppo supporters at the Gabba. A fella and his partner were a few seats away barracking hard for the Saints when we played them but it was all good natured .They obviously knew where the boundaries were and respected the fact they were pretty much surrounded by Lions supporters.
I had no problem with the Saints fans either, it's just Collingwood (and Richmond). In previous seasons I had a general admission membership and I reckon the most classless ones tend to sit in the cheap seats. Never had any knobs around me when my mate with the Gabba ground membership lent me his pass.
 

mpal6

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While I completely agree we need Payne in while Andrews is out, I disagree that we require him when playing against three talls. All year we have played as a defensive unit. It is very rare now that the ball comes in to a one on one contest, and when is does it’s typically Harris and he can handle just about anyone. We set up as a defensive unit rather than one on one. The amount of times one of our other defenders fly to help in a contest is unreal! We are a real unit. Payne to play that more lockdown role and Lester will become the interceptor.
Top teams will take our structure apart, that's where we will fall short in finals in my view. Watch for Richmond to clear the forward line, place Martin and Lynch deep with Riewoldt leading out. To overcome these top teams, it would be nicer if we practice our tall defense structure against less well drilled teams.

If we are saying that this is a learning year and we are just making up finals numbers again then that's fine by me. I still think we could go deep in finals if we get our mix right.
 

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