Autopsy Round 2, 2023: Western Bulldogs v St.Kilda

[ScrappyDo]

I think everyone needs to take a chill pill on these kind of comments .. I love Ross and was very happy we got him back and you can see how much more better drilled we are but let’s not forget we were 8-3 last year .. we’ve been here before where we think we’ve turned a corner .. we are only 2 games in and Impossible to know if that flakey form we’ve become used to is still a thing or not

Last year and 2017 we were in the 8 late in the season against a poor Essendon side and lost and didn’t make it … let’s just see and let this one play out

By the end of the 1st quarter against Freo I'd already seen more system, skill and development than the whole of the preceding 10 years under Rattcho.
That flakey form comes from knowing you're fighting with one hand tied behind your back and not being able to keep yourself motivated.
I don't think anyone is getting carried away either, just enjoying the hope.

 

[gringo2011]

By the end of the 1st quarter against Freo I'd already seen more system, skill and development than the whole of the preceding 10 years under Rattcho.
That flakey form comes from knowing you're fighting with one hand tied behind your back and not being able to keep yourself motivated.
I don't think anyone is getting carried away either, just enjoying the hope.

The buy-in is probably the most pleasing aspect to me. They looked like they chose when to go under Ratso and Richo.

 

[ScrappyDo]

The buy-in is probably the most pleasing aspect to me. They looked like they chose when to go under Ratso and Richo.

I don't think it's a matter of choosing. It's just hard to push s**t uphill all the time, it requires an unattainable level of effort to keep it going.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I don't think it's a matter of choosing. It's just hard to push s**t uphill all the time, it requires an unattainable level of effort to keep it going.

And belief in what you are actually trying to do.
Not sure RattCho had that unconditionally from the players.

 

[hangdog]

Windy was Hawthorn.
Owens likely North based on his old man.
Phillipou was Port.

Ah damn, i think you're right

 

[hayes]

I think under Richo they tried they were just no good. Ratten was a different story, effort was optional and there were no consequences if there wasn’t any.

 

[ScrappyDo]

And belief in what you are actually trying to do.
Not sure RattCho had that unconditionally from the players.

Yes probably, but of the two sides of this coin I do not believe that the players owe their coach or club unwavering belief and effort. Players are still human after all and indeed it is the club that owes the players a competent coach, footy staff and good culture.
If the club fails in that responsibility then the players most certainly do not owe that peanut (let's call him Rattcho) their unwavering belief which translates to effort. We can now very clearly see that our club had failed to deliver on it's responsibilities, and I can't see any logic in thinking that it was the players that let the side down at any point. They are but cattle.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I think under Richo they tried they were just no good. Ratten was a different story, effort was optional and there were no consequences if there wasn’t any.

Totally, totally, totally disagree on this one.
That rot started under Richo as we lost the last of our GF team. When Roo and Joey finally stepped out the roof fell in.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Just saw this now…Saints social media team on fire

 

[my name was taken]

Cho just went around pulling strings during matches to cover up the gaping hole that he was digging. Just kept on digging and covering it up to save his own skin.

But both ratts and cho wanted to coddle everyone, blokes earning hundreds of thousands dont need coddling, show them the respect and develop some grown men

 

[Diehard Saint]

Yes probably, but of the two sides of this coin I do not believe that the players owe their coach or club unwavering belief and effort. Players are still human after all and indeed it is the club that owes the players a competent coach, footy staff and good culture.
If the club fails in that responsibility then the players most certainly do not owe that peanut (let's call him Rattcho) their unwavering belief which translates to effort. We can now very clearly see that our club had failed to deliver on it's responsibilities, and I can't see any logic in thinking that it was the players that let the side down at any point. They are but cattle.

I agree To a point.
Players did not always seem to have the belief in the previous two coaches and it often showed. But as professionals they should not have capitulated as they did at times. Can’t take all the blame from them.

However, The belief they would have right now, from an experienced and savvy coach who has showed he knows what he is talking about, would be enormous.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Darcy and Ugle-Hagan, pick 2 and 1 respectively, had a combined 10 disposals, 5 marks, and 0.2 on the weekend. Anthony Caminiti, a lad not even picked in any draft, national or otherwise, had 13 disposals, 9 marks, and kicked 2.1.
Pretty wild stat that one.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I agree To a point.
Players did not always seem to have the belief in the previous two coaches and it often showed. But as professionals they should not have capitulated as they did at times. Can’t take all the blame from them.

However, The belief they would have right now, from an experienced and savvy coach who has showed he knows what he is talking about, would be enormous.

Yes there were sone awful capitulations and as competitive sportsmen l'm very sure there would have been a strong sense of shame along with it. However even under Mr Good Vibes Ratten the group couldn't expunge that element from itself until the club went and put in place a real proper coach in Ross.

On an individual and occasional basis you can comfortably point the finger at players, but our issues became systemic and ingrained.
We'll see how far we've come on Saturday because for the last bunch of years I've had the bummers down as a do not watch disgraceful loss that has usually killed our season.

Saturday night, marques game, huge crowd at the G and playing the Injectors. Every previously reliable indicator says we should turn our toes up.
Win and they'll bust every hoodoo in one glorious night. Then even I'll start to believe.

 

[Parkysp]

Take it from a Lierpool supporter who witnessed the transformation to the idolatry of players to the idolatry of Jurgen Klopp, its a great way to be.

Relying on all players to have a good day every day is a pretty flawed model. It is much better to get a man with a plan who knows how to get the best out of a group.

Doesn't guarantee success, but players become interchangeable - great for dealing with injuries, as we're finding out - and with confidence in their system, they can just do their job and find ways to give extra without ever giving less.

Absolutely agree. The game about 3 games into his reign when Klopp turned around near the end of the game sealed the deal for me when we were level and supporters started leaving the ground. In his after match press conference he said "in that moment I felt lonely" or close enough to that. What a statement to the supporters and players. It was onwards and upwards from there until this season when finally broken chasing a machine. A genius man manager.

He created players you could love because he taught them how to give their all. Ross is cut from a similar cloth.

Here's my homage to a great (great is not enough) Liverpool player. My favourite to one of our kids who I see similar in.

Oh there's something that the Saints want you to know
The best in the world his name is Mitchi O
Our number ten
He's the best that we have ever seen
All you Saints
Get the ball to Mitch to kick a goal

or something like that

and before you non "football" fans get upset. Player songs don't have to reflect absolute truth. The joy is in the song to the player. Don't over analyse it. In fact if it ain't absolutely true, even better as it tends to give opo supporters the sh%ts

 

[hayes]

Totally, totally, totally disagree on this one.
That rot started under Richo as we lost the last of our GF team. When Roo and Joey finally stepped out the roof fell in.

That’s true but I do think the players were trying it was just a shocking list that wasn’t capable of much more than what it was putting out.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Darcy and Ugle-Hagan, pick 2 and 1 respectively, had a combined 10 disposals, 5 marks, and 0.2 on the weekend. Anthony Caminiti, a lad not even picked in any draft, national or otherwise, had 13 disposals, 9 marks, and kicked 2.1.
Pretty wild stat that one.

Also collectively 30 games (and 5 pre seasons) V a bloke in his 2nd game who a few weeks ago was was working two jobs and getting ready to head off to uni.

Looks strong as well - got pushed under the ball a couple of times but also managed to hold his position against Jones/Keath on a number of occasions. If I remember correctly also really high in the distance covered stat.

I hope they've offered him a contract extension already - him, King, Mitch, Phillipou and a couple of good smalls would be handful for any defense for many years to come.

 

[gringo2011]

Totally, totally, totally disagree on this one.
That rot started under Richo as we lost the last of our GF team. When Roo and Joey finally stepped out the roof fell in.

It's hard when you aren't replacing the players that you lose though. Richo had some really poor sides. He was a the worst combo though, blue collar coach with a below average list.

 

[Saintbloke]

It's hard when you aren't replacing the players that you lose though. Richo had some really poor sides. He was a the worst combo though, blue collar coach with a below average list.

Can't remember all the details, but I think the club was so desperate for Richo to come in as the saviour coach, that they had to pay PA some kind of $$ compensation..and didn't Harvs also apply for the position? Truely wasted years for the club.

 

[gringo2011]

Can't remember all the details, but I think the club was so desperate for Richo to come in as the saviour coach, that they had to pay PA some kind of $$ compensation..and didn't Harvs also apply for the position? Truely wasted years for the club.

It was like a perfect storm, a board that was tight with money and didn't care about results as long as you made promises and a coach that was happy to play the list he had at 100% so we overachieved and then had a drafting and trading set up that weren't good at spotting talent. Not enough high picks, and the ones we had we wasted, no oversight to track development and no performance standards.

If you want to rebuild you give the coach four years and set him up to go backwards short term playing kids. Hire the best staff you can in recruitment and development. Kind of like what we've finally worked out.

 

[hangdog]

So everyone going for Brisbane tonight?

 

[sunny3193]

So everyone going for Brisbane tonight?

Foolishly, I’m not.
Bulldogs need to show up or their season is over.****



**** My tipping is hopeless.