Autopsy Round 4, 2023: Hawks go home at half time v Cats

[hawkman]

I wish Reeves would go for the big spike forward sometimes in the ruck like McInerney does for Brisbane occasionally. Especially in situations like the 3rd quarter where Geelong are just dominating the clearances. Sometimes we can absolutely dominate off him in the 1st half (Bulldogs last year, Geelong yesterday) then teams start to work out where we are going and they dominate late in the game

 

[Dewnior]

Hawkins, when he isn’t shoving people off the ball with both hands, he has them out pleading for a free kick. It really is a reflection of their coach.

The whole team does it and are coached to do so. It's a very bad look.

 

[Davo-27]

And more importantly Sam, play him for the fool that Scott is. Stand up for your players Sam, because only Scott wins. The media, and Whately in particular, just love it.

Exactly, Sam has a chance to learn from a loss, stand up for your players, even if you haven't seen the incident, just say something like "Meek is a full time ruck and Blicavs is a part time ruck, these things happen in ruck contests" that way you are backing him in, degrading Blicavs and saying it was a nothing incident, the media circus will love it and move on.....

Instead you didn't back Meek, had no opinion and allowed Scott's take to pressure Meek, luckily twitter and Buckley bailed you and Meek out.... I think a coach having the players back when the idiots in the media are out for blood is important.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

I wish Reeves would go for the big spike forward sometimes in the ruck like McInerney does for Brisbane occasionally. Especially in situations like the 3rd quarter where Geelong are just dominating the clearances. Sometimes we can absolutely dominate off him in the 1st half (Bulldogs last year, Geelong yesterday) then teams start to work out where we are going and they dominate late in the game

The oppo ruck runs in bodies Reeves and wraps him up as soon as permitted. He ain't strong enough to hold them off. All he can do is get a palm to it and drop it straight down rather than get a big swing at it. It is the method to nullify his height advantage and something he needs to work through.

I was screaming in the 3rd Q for us to do exactly what you are saying but we just could not get it done time after time. Plus none of our mids got on the move thru the contest at stoppages so stoppages were a wrestle at the drop of the ball where we were pushed around badly.

Cats repeatedly played the southern stand wing around the boundary and would have 2 to 3 strong runners on that side. We weren't onto it and we're torched. The ball moved way too easily and we never adjusted our zone despite it being such an obvious direction for Geelong.

Plus 3rd Q Cats half backs sprinted aggressively into their fwd half at centre stoppages. Our fwds weren't onto it and meant easy ball for Touhy and co as Breusty and others couldn't keep up.

Copped a footballing and coaching lesson in the 2nd half. It did change when the rain hit our outside game that was the reason we were in front at half time evaporated and we failed to adjust and had no plan B to employ.

 

[peetoo]

Sometimes the coach will leave players in losing positions as a learning experience

 

[hawk for 37]

I think Sam is contributing to Newcombe's form issues. The boy is a see ball get ball type of player. Starting him fwd and he has to find other ways to getting disposals. With no key fwd, he is been asked to play another role not suited to his style.
Get him in the guts.

 

[cryptor]

I think Sam is contributing to Newcombe's form issues. The boy is a see ball get ball type of player. Starting him fwd and he has to find other ways to getting disposals. With no key fwd, he is been asked to play another role not suited to his style.
Get him in the guts.

We're amassing quite a collection of talented midfielders who all bring something different to the mix. But they can't all play the majority of their time in the guts. They all need to become effective at a secondary role where they can impact the game when they aren't in the middle.

Jai has shown signs that he could be an effective half forward given his strength in marking overhead. But it's a challenge for anyone playing forward to shine when the forward opportunities have been so limited.

Would we perform better as a team right now if Jai plays exclusively in the middle? Probably. But that stalls the development of others and makes Jai a one dimensional player.

Short term pain, long term gain.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I think Sam is contributing to Newcombe's form issues. The boy is a see ball get ball type of player. Starting him fwd and he has to find other ways to getting disposals. With no key fwd, he is been asked to play another role not suited to his style.
Get him in the guts.

Its all part of him growing as a player. You can not play 100% mid so developing other parts of your game makes sense that goes for every player on the list. Day is getting more time in the middle at the moment because he has hardly played there and needs the minutes. Eventually we will spread the load. Its long term thinking

 

[TheFourPillars]

We're amassing quite a collection of talented midfielders who all bring something different to the mix. But they can't all play the majority of their time in the guts. They all need to become effective at a secondary role where they can impact the game when they aren't in the middle.

Jai has shown signs that he could be an effective half forward given his strength in marking overhead. But it's a challenge for anyone playing forward to shine when the forward opportunities have been so limited.

Would we perform better as a team right now if Jai plays exclusively in the middle? Probably. But that stalls the development of others and makes Jai a one dimensional player.

Short term pain, long term gain.

You beat me to it mate

 

[toomanysquibs]

Of course Scott found something to sook about in an 80 point win.

And, of course it's something he's completely in the wrong about.

Mission accomplished level wrong.

With so many runs on the board, why would anyone listen to him?

 

[Jazzfan]

We're amassing quite a collection of talented midfielders who all bring something different to the mix. But they can't all play the majority of their time in the guts. They all need to become effective at a secondary role where they can impact the game when they aren't in the middle.

Jai has shown signs that he could be an effective half forward given his strength in marking overhead. But it's a challenge for anyone playing forward to shine when the forward opportunities have been so limited.

Would we perform better as a team right now if Jai plays exclusively in the middle? Probably. But that stalls the development of others and makes Jai a one dimensional player.

Short term pain, long term gain.

It's creating opportunities for Worpel and Nash. Neither of which are likely to be in our best 22 when playing finals next. Neither are capable forward. Jai is especially rotating with Worpel.

I understand wanting more rounded players, and he is capable forward, but he should have been thrown the keys to the midfield this year and challenged to become elite in his one wood position... this may still happen.

As it sits, it's hard to find anyone that's improved on 2022 outside Day, Impey and possibly Ward in aspects.

 

[TheFourPillars]

It's creating opportunities for Worpel and Nash. Neither of which are likely to be in our best 22 when playing finals next. Neither are capable forward. Jai is especially rotating with Worpel.

I understand wanting more rounded players, and he is capable forward, but he should have been thrown the keys to the midfield this year and challenged to become elite in his one wood position... this may still happen.

As it sits, it's hard to find anyone that's improved on 2022 outside Day, Impey and possibly Ward in aspects.

The long game mate the long game

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

For those interested in how the Cats set out to block our rucks at the centre bounce this post from a Carlton supporter sums it up perfectly.

Umpiring - Blicavs blocking in the ruck

This is reminiscent of the desperation of tigers-fans trying to will the football inside the goal posts from the brisbane game last year Watch the vision in the OP. If you don't think Meek's position when he taps the ball is BEHIND where he was when he knee'd Blicavs in the guts, you're...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Simon Crawshay]

We're amassing quite a collection of talented midfielders who all bring something different to the mix. But they can't all play the majority of their time in the guts. They all need to become effective at a secondary role where they can impact the game when they aren't in the middle.

Jai has shown signs that he could be an effective half forward given his strength in marking overhead. But it's a challenge for anyone playing forward to shine when the forward opportunities have been so limited.

Would we perform better as a team right now if Jai plays exclusively in the middle? Probably. But that stalls the development of others and makes Jai a one dimensional player.

Short term pain, long term gain.

I'd say though that after three absolute thumpings in the first four rounds a little bit of short term thinking for some short term gain might not go astray at the moment.

Don't want to make a habit of copping these floggings, can become a bad habit.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'd say though that after three absolute thumpings in the first four rounds a little bit of short term thinking for some short term gain might not go astray at the moment.

Don't want to make a habit of copping these floggings, can become a bad habit.

I look at what we’ve done with our list and I think about Sam Mitchell as a person and I can’t help but feel that short term gain is something that he really doesn’t give a s**t about.

 

[PenAndPaper]

For those interested in how the Cats set out to block our rucks at the centre bounce this post from a Carlton supporter sums it up perfectly.

Umpiring - Blicavs blocking in the ruck

This is reminiscent of the desperation of tigers-fans trying to will the football inside the goal posts from the brisbane game last year Watch the vision in the OP. If you don't think Meek's position when he taps the ball is BEHIND where he was when he knee'd Blicavs in the guts, you're...

www.bigfooty.com

Its actually ridiculous that they aren't called for blocks in the ruck, its the text book of that rule.

 

[H00t]

I'd say though that after three absolute thumpings in the first four rounds a little bit of short term thinking for some short term gain might not go astray at the moment.

Don't want to make a habit of copping these floggings, can become a bad habit.

Jai played mostly mid during our flogging against Sydney.

There’s no one move or player that can just turn the tide for us.

It’s a development year. These things will happen it’s up to the players to make the most of our opportunities.

It’s not like we aren’t trying to win. We just aren’t good enough for long enough yet.

 

[Hawksboy72]

I've been both positive and negative with my comments so far this season.
Mitch Lewis is a massive loss. He's not in the top echelon of key forwards just yet but with him not there were basically starting 3 or 4 goals behind in every match.
The losses against the really good teams doesn't really matter that much its the results against the teams around us that will tell us were we are truly are.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Personally I'd rather Newcombe (and Day) really hone their games as midfielders before spending significantly more time in other areas of the field.

 

[Max Powers]

With the MRP challenges how arrogant are Geelong to think Rohan should get off all together. If there is any justice in the AFL Day's should be reduced to one week and Rohan's should stand as is.

 

[kenneje]

With the MRP challenges how arrogant are Geelong to think Rohan should get off all together. If there is any justice in the AFL Day's should be reduced to one week and Rohan's should stand as is.

If the AFL is serious about head knocks, both should be a week for the action. If a player is concussed as a result, 1 should become 3. No idea how they ended up with Day at 2 weeks ... it'll be reduced down to 1 assuming the Geelong medical report isn't horrific.

 

[Lawsy]

I know we are a couple of days removed from the game and I've read half of the thread but there seems to be a real question if whether we tried in the 2nd half.

Myself, I can't ever remember playing, be it average country league level or GFL, and not playing to win. Sometimes, a lot actually in some teams, we didn't win, but I can't imagine the guys didn't go out after half time each week with the intent to win, be it the first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter, the first half of the 3rd quarter, whatever was the message given by Sam at HT. I'm sure it wasn't that at the HT beak as we were winning, all over the ground, and winning by being more competitive, harder at the ball, running back hard when we didn't have the ball so we were involved in the defensive structures. It just doesn't make sense that our guys would drop the ball like that. There was so much to like about the first 2 quarters and we should have been further in front.

To those who spend a lot of time assessing our setups and structures, was there a marked change in any positional setups? i.e. did Meek take more centre bounces in Q3 (I know there were a lot more in Q3), did we play a less familiar centre 3 more often such as Moore, Ward and Day as an example?

We just got belted and allowed them to waltz out of the centre and give their forwards all the time they needed to impact the scoreboard. I can understand when some structural changes happen but wouldn't have thought this was the time to change if it did in fact occur. I also can't understand why we didn't go back to our best centre combinations, like we did earlier in the game. This is all only relevant if said changes happened or maybe didn't.

I'm like many, excited about what happened when we showed we could stand up in the heat of the battle, the kids doing well and taking control of the game but equally bemused about what happened at HT and beyond.

 

[The hands of stone]

I'd say though that after three absolute thumpings in the first four rounds a little bit of short term thinking for some short term gain might not go astray at the moment.

Don't want to make a habit of copping these floggings, can become a bad habit.

There are two ways to do that if we wanted too

• play all the older experienced players on the list ( not that there is a lot ) in place of developing the younger talent
• play a keepings off / stagnent and defensive game style to minimise damage .

Both things that a lot of posters on here we not happy about and weekly whinged and moaned about with Clarko in his last 3 - 4 seasons .

We are playing the long game here . There is going to be pain , ride it out .

 

[H00t]

There are two ways to do that if we wanted too

• play all the older experienced players on the list ( not that there is a lot ) in place of developing the younger talent
• play a keepings off / stagnent and defensive game style to minimise damage .

Both things that a lot of posters on here we not happy about and weekly whinged and moaned about with Clarko in his last 3 - 4 seasons .

We are playing the long game here . There is going to be pain , ride it out .

We did play a much more keeping’s off game style against North. Problem is the better teams just shut down our movement and don’t let us do that.

Sydney completely shut down our outlet kicks and forced us up the line.

I hope we keep taking the game on and don’t just start dropping a heap of numbers back. It’s such a terrible style of play to watch and won’t teach our players much of anything.

 

[Topiary]

Mission accomplished level wrong.

With so many runs on the board, why would anyone listen to him?

Because the media fools love him and he gives them plenty of quotes. Just ask Gerard Whately.