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Autopsy Round 8 vs Melbourne Demons

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MarshallG said:
From the limited sample size of the 2 matches I have attended, Charlie frequently goes wide of the goals while the ball a fair portion of the time comes in directly in front
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and by going wide, he's taking defenders with him ... opening up space through the middle, which is usually where the likes of blakey, mcinerney, warner, wicks, heeney, bice, et al (even that european tourist gulden, when he could be bothered turning up) are finding leading players in space ... or simply going long to goal themselves ...
 
Kbroome said:
Funny about #2 as the scores from stoppage were dead even, and the scores from centre bounce were 27-26.
  • Clearances were also 45-44 in Melbournes favour
  • Centre Clearances 21-16, showing our centre clearances on average were more damaging

#4 Sheldrick only 23% CBAs is probably a poor tactical move given Papley took 28%, reckon it should be a 40/10 split

#6 I think is a poor way and trying to always find a negative in someones performance, better defensive numbers than Hogan, JVR, Trembath, Riccardi (as a forward), King, Shanahan. I don't think every key forward has to be landing 5 tackles a game.
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In regards #6, I know I’m being narky.

But I was frustrated when Turner I think it was kicked a goal late in Q4. He ran unchecked from way outside 50 and launched the bomb. Curnow should have been awake to it, but had switched off.

He’s clearly a huge asset to the side. But the defensive focus was shoddy.

In regards centre clearances - I’ll rely on the eye test. They got too many clearances out the front that led directly to goals. Way too many.
 
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Dubai Quacker said:
In regards #6, I know I’m being narky.

But I was frustrated when Turner I think it was kicked a goal late in Q4. He ran unchecked from way outside 50 and launched the bomb. Curnow should have been awake to it, but had switched off.

He’s clearly a huge asset to the side. But the defensive focus was shoddy.

In regards centre clearances - I’ll rely on the eye test. They got too many clearances out the front that led directly to goals. Way too many.
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Tend to agree I was surprised when the clearances were even (ish). Their clearances seemed to be so clean, then again Pickett does that and he was an annoyingly good player despite the tag.
 
Dubai Quacker said:
In regards #6, I know I’m being narky.

But I was frustrated when Turner I think it was kicked a goal late in Q4. He ran unchecked from way outside 50 and launched the bomb. Curnow should have been awake to it, but had switched off.

He’s clearly a huge asset to the side. But the defensive focus was shoddy.

In regards centre clearances - I’ll rely on the eye test. They got too many clearances out the front that led directly to goals. Way too many.
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Yeah they did get many, but I think you eyes are falling under a negative bias in which You are directly thinking about the 3 minute stretch where it happened 2-3 times, when for a majority of the game it was overall even as the stats of clearances and scores from stoppages/centre bounces allude to. I'm not saying your 100% wrong as it clearly something that can be worked on but I think you have to look at our ability to also win it from stoppages and score from less total clearances which is more damaging
 

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momentbymoment said:
Re Brodie
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I would consider bringing in McLean (for a small). Have two rucks, move McDonald onto the wing at times, rotate all the talls throughout the game.

I just don’t rate Ladhams.
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It would send a terrible message to the reserves to bring someone else in to ruck and have it be anyone but Ladhams, who has been unbelievable in the VFL this year.

McLean has been very good too, but as a forward – not a ruck. He's also not a particularly good ruck and won't give us much more than Amartey and McDonald are, anyway.
 
SSwans2011 said:
It would send a terrible message to the reserves to bring someone else in to ruck and have it be anyone but Ladhams, who has been unbelievable in the VFL this year.

McLean has been very good too, but as a forward – not a ruck. He's also not a particularly good ruck and won't give us much more than Amartey and McDonald are, anyway.
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It would also make us slow times 1000, McLean still has the turning circle of the Queen Mary at times, there is next to 0 defensive pressure, we already have Curnow not giving us a lot in that regard (not his job really), do we need another? Last thing I'd do is make us slower.
 
SSwans2011 said:
It would send a terrible message to the reserves to bring someone else in to ruck and have it be anyone but Ladhams, who has been unbelievable in the VFL this year.

McLean has been very good too, but as a forward – not a ruck. He's also not a particularly good ruck and won't give us much more than Amartey and McDonald are, anyway.
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What McLean or Ladhams would give you that Amartey and McDonald don't is 30+% attendances anywhere on the ground with Grundy getting leg massages. Whether this is better for his longevity than a week off I'll leave to the actual experts but I'm sure it's worth consideration.
I wouldn't play either of them unless this was our intention or for injury.
 
Kiama Chris said:
What McLean or Ladhams would give you that Amartey and McDonald don't is 30+% attendances anywhere on the ground with Grundy getting leg massages. Whether this is better for his longevity than a week off I'll leave to the actual experts but I'm sure it's worth consideration.
I wouldn't play either of them unless this was our intention or for injury.
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My reasoning for playing Ladhams alongside him is that he was sore heading into this contest, and attended probably the most ruck contests in his Swans career for a game.

We now have 2 6-day breaks into games against North (Xerri will pound him around the ground), then Collingwood (a must win). We need him at his best at all times in those games so reckon if we can just take away the 10-15% of ruck contests that he was really lagging in during the Melbourne game and give them to Ladhams, alongside the 10 contests that Amartey and McDonald attended. Thats roughly a 65-70/30 split, still giving Brodie dominance but gives him the break that he needs over the next 2 weeks to be a dominant force in the ruck
 
Kbroome said:
My reasoning for playing Ladhams alongside him is that he was sore heading into this contest, and attended probably the most ruck contests in his Swans career for a game.

We now have 2 6-day breaks into games against North (Xerri will pound him around the ground), then Collingwood (a must win). We need him at his best at all times in those games so reckon if we can just take away the 10-15% of ruck contests that he was really lagging in during the Melbourne game and give them to Ladhams, alongside the 10 contests that Amartey and McDonald attended. Thats roughly a 65-70/30 split, still giving Brodie dominance but gives him the break that he needs over the next 2 weeks to be a dominant force in the ruck
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I'd be looking at the Tigers game, fully rest that round. Surely thats the week to rest. I'd also have a thought to in game 'rest' Brodie a bit next week. Get ahead ie. 8 goals then just pull him for the last qtr leading into the Pies. You are 100% right that Pies game we need Brodie at his best, we do get them minus pendelbury though
 
giantsully said:
I think Jeffers is referring to an earlier incident on the O'Reilly flank - on that occasion I (and it seems Jeffers) had a much better view than the ump, and Lizard got a hand to it.

The over the shoulder flick was more problematic, but as you note, you see it go unpunished 20 times a weekend. Chamberlain explained on 360 recently that the rule is now that the punching hand has to "catch up" at some point with the holding hand.
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Apologies, it was actually Serong who was judged HTB on the O'Reilly flank that led to the McDonald ruck infringement goal.

On rules whose interpretation I can't keep up with:
  • I thought after Brodie pulled a swifty in a pre-season game they decided they wouldn't penalise someone who went over the line at the centre bounce if the other ruckman baulked the contest - and yet I've seen it paid (inconsistently) several times recently
  • Likewise, the feinted handball was not judged as play on unless you also stepped over the mark - but consistently yesterday every time someone motioned to handball it was called play on
It's tough to keep up as a spectator,
 
giantsully said:
Apologies, it was actually Serong who was judged HTB on the O'Reilly flank that led to the McDonald ruck infringement goal.

On rules whose interpretation I can't keep up with:
  • I thought after Brodie pulled a swifty in a pre-season game they decided they wouldn't penalise someone who went over the line at the centre bounce if the other ruckman baulked the contest - and yet I've seen it paid (inconsistently) several times recently
  • Likewise, the feinted handball was not judged as play on unless you also stepped over the mark - but consistently yesterday every time someone motioned to handball it was called play on
It's tough to keep up as a spectator,
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Thought exactly same thing at that bounce…. Must have employed the Gawn rule.
 
momentbymoment said:
Re Brodie
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I would consider bringing in McLean (for a small). Have two rucks, move McDonald onto the wing at times, rotate all the talls throughout the game.

I just don’t rate Ladhams.
Click to expand...
Watched Dos in the second half of the ressies. In Q3 in particular he was right in front of me - must have got to 6-8 contests and didn't clunk one. None of them easy but if he can't clunk them in the VFL, he's certainly not doing it in the AFL. Looks like a bloke who needs to regain some confidence.
 
Nine things I learned this week

1. Malcolm Rosas Jnr. is on fire
Which is the understatement of the year, when you've just kicked a bag of seven. When I first heard we were into Rosas Jnr., I was very excited by the prospect, for the simple fact that I thought we needed small forwards. I wasn't fussy as to what kind of small forwards we needed - ones with excellent pressure and speed, or ones with class and skills around the ground, or ones that can simply take marks and kick goals. I would've settled for a small who could do any of the above. With Rosas Jnr., we've ended up with someone who can do it all. In eight games, he's shown he has different ways of getting into the game and hurting you. If it's not a bag of seven like this week, it's with damaging disposal further up the ground like last week.

2. But the forward line's also on fire
Naturally, when a player kicks seven goals in a game that was decided by three goals, that player is seen as "the difference"; it's followed by rhetoric like "If it wasn't for Rosas' goals, we'd have been in trouble." Maybe that is true. Or maybe our forward line is functioning so ridiculously well this season that if it wasn't for Rosas' goals, it would be someone else's goals instead. A Swans player has kicked 3+ goals a whopping thirteen times this season, and nine different players have done it - Curnow (four times), Amartey (four times), McDonald (twice), McInerney, Heeney, Lloyd, Papley, Warner, and now Rosas Jnr. Taking absolutely nothing away from Rosas Jnr.'s incredible performance yesterday, but only a totally functional forward line could constantly allow players to find space and isolation close to goals. You think you've stopped one, and another pops up...

3. There's still life in Jake Lloyd's legs. Just not much oomph.
Swans fans have been trying to retire or trade Lloyd for the better part of a decade, so it's probably not a surprise that the tradition has continued into this year, when we're an offensive juggernaut with some new faces and Lloyd is now just part of the furniture. But whilst to many fans he might be that one chair in your living room that for some reason no one ever sits in, to the Swans he is still a bloody handy player. For all the talk about his age, the game has ironically come back around to him, his running capacity and ability to find space and work by hand perfectly suits the way we're wanting to play this year. But if his age is starting to show anywhere, it's in his kicking. Those things can barely get over 40 metres these days, and it may require an adjustment in Lloyd's game and his positioning so he can get more balls closer to goal.

4. The midfielders did the defenders no favours
Going into the game - and even at times throughout the game - there was concern about our defence; how it would hold up without Tom McCartin, how Lewis Melican would perform, how would Will Edwards go on second showing. What transpired was less a decisive answer to any of those questions, and more a frustrating fight for survival by our back six or seven as they watched ball after ball sail over their heads straight out of the centre under minimal pressure, or turnovers in the middle ground repelled right back towards them with no time to set up effectively. Conceding 100+ for the first time this year will inevitably lead to questions over our defence, but those questions won't tell the whole story of the day.

5. Will Edwards may be legit, though.
Given the speed and fluidity of the game in 2026, not to mention our specific bold and attacking game style which can lead to fast and dangerous turnovers, it's important for key defenders to be able to be proactive in how they go about it. Forwards will be ready for the fast break to lead into space and capitalise on the ball movement happening further up the ground. It's in that context that I've been thoroughly impressed with Edwards in his first few games. He's not relying on strength (which he doesn't appear to be lacking) or hoping for a high ball to his opponent's head that he can spoil out. He's aggressively closing space and hunting the incoming ball, not allowing easy runs at them for his direct opponent. Patrick Snell in the VFL plays a similar sort of way, and it feels incredibly well-suited to what we'll need from our defenders if this game style persists in the coming years.

6. Angus Sheldrick is doing just fine
If people think Dubai Quacker is bad when it comes to Sheldrick, they should check out X. Once a week, like clockwork, the Fantasy and Supercoach fanatics come crawling out to bemoan Sheldrick's low TOG and lack of midfield time. They cite things like his disposals per time on ground and his CBA stats. It's almost like Dean Cox... doesn't... give a **** about their Fantasy teams?? In deploying Sheldrick the way we have so far this season, we've played to his strengths, where he's had short, sharp bursts of impact in and around the contest, and impacting when we need him to, whether that's early last week, when the game was hot against the Bulldogs, or late this week, when perhaps others were tiring after a hard-fought game against the Dees.

7. The Swans may be their own worst enemy this year
In nearly every game so far this year - no, actually, every game this year - the Swans have had a period where they have come down with a nasty case of mistaken identity, believing themselves to be the Harlem Globetrotters. It usually follows a period in the game where we've asserted our dominance and pulled away from the opposition through hard work, good system and elite skills. Then out come the dinky little kicks, the loopy handballs to nobody, the attempted underground handballs, the attempts to spin, dodge and weave out of tackles they've got no chance of getting out of. It's understandable that when they're given the license to take the game on, that it can lead to taking it too far. And encouragingly, the players have shown an ability to straighten themselves out again and go back to the fundamentals when required. But it's a point to watch. We wouldn't want our own X-factor to be the cause of our demise in a game.

8. Billy Cootee isn't quite there yet
And that's OK. There have been moments in both games he's played where he's looked noticeably raw and rattled by the level of intensity around him, instances of what one might call "reserves brain" - where you're not quite prepared for the lack of time and space to do things in AFL games that you were able to get away with in VFL games. This is probably not a great shock. He'd missed a huge chunk of the pre-season with his injury, and then was only back in the VFL for a few weeks before he earned his debut. His feel for the game was very likely not at a maximum when he made his debut, anyway. Perhaps most pleasing is that neither of Cootee's games were a disaster that would dampen his confidence. In both games, he had some genuinely good moments that would've earned him pats on the back/bum from teammates and the coaches, and given him the confidence to go back to the VFL knowing he was not significantly out of place at the elite level.

9. The list is thriving at the moment
Is there a Swans player not brimming with confidence at the moment? Well, yes. A couple, maybe. But then you look at Brodie Grundy, going back and nailing the set-shot at an important moment in his 250th game, or how Malcolm Rosas Jnr. is thriving and seemingly loving his footy, or how Amartey is in career-best form at the moment, or how Matt Roberts has the confidence to have a ping at goal any time he's within 50-55 metres of the big sticks now, or the kid Will Edwards just bulldozing players in his first and second game, or how Justin McInerney has elevated his game to new levels. And of course the usual suspects - your Heeneys, your Warners, your Papleys, your Blakeys - who are never short on confidence. And in the last few VFL games, depth players like Phillipou, Cleary, Snell, Dattoli and Chamberlain playing brave, aggressive footy, demonstrating a little bit of FIGJAM, even. It feels like, for the most part, this squad is loving its footy and are all helping each other be better.
 

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giantsully said:
Watched Dos in the second half of the ressies. In Q3 in particular he was right in front of me - must have got to 6-8 contests and didn't clunk one. None of them easy but if he can't clunk them in the VFL, he's certainly not doing it in the AFL. Looks like a bloke who needs to regain some confidence.
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I was down his end for the latter part of Q3 as well. His big issue was that his hands weren't forward enough and his defender was able to punch the ball as it arrived. Also, his hands were looking hard. Not on the move enough to get even a little separation. I concur with your conclusion.
In Q4 Hamling marked beautifully.
 
Kiama Chris said:
I was down his end for the latter part of Q3 as well. His big issue was that his hands weren't forward enough and his defender was able to punch the ball as it arrived. Also, his hands were looking hard. Not on the move enough to get even a little separation. I concur with your conclusion.
In Q4 Hamling marked beautifully.
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Spot on, hands like cymbals. And also totally agree re Hamling's Q4 - I was very surprised to see him cop some flack in the VFL thread as I thought he saved the day. His opponent got one mark when the ball floated off the side of the boot and landed in his arms - Joel couldn't do anything about that. Beyond that, it was a Rampe like display of reading the ball and on-field leadership.
 
Grundy not even mentioned in the review for the shoulder bump on Pickett

Papley fined for tussle after the Jack Steele tackle

1777876626122.webp
 

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giantsully said:
Spot on, hands like cymbals. And also totally agree re Hamling's Q4 - I was very surprised to see him cop some flack in the VFL thread as I thought he saved the day. His opponent got one mark when the ball floated off the side of the boot and landed in his arms - Joel couldn't do anything about that. Beyond that, it was a Rampe like display of reading the ball and on-field leadership.
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I hope Hamling gets another year if he maintains fitness. He's still AFL quality. Great depth. Not sure he's the mentor type but certainly sets an example and gives Snell someone to work with. I feel as if Edwards is a big chance to be fully embedded in seniors by the end of the season so it will be a matter of whether Rampe or Melican drops back. Big call. I had thought it would be Rampe but he's holding up well.
I hope Mal and Laidler are talking with McLean. The better he plays the more value he is.
 
Kiama Chris said:
What McLean or Ladhams would give you that Amartey and McDonald don't is 30+% attendances anywhere on the ground with Grundy getting leg massages. Whether this is better for his longevity than a week off I'll leave to the actual experts but I'm sure it's worth consideration.
I wouldn't play either of them unless this was our intention or for injury.
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I sat on a pleasant little hill and watched the Reserves at Tramway.

What I saw:

- Ladhams running around clearly trying to play as the mobile ruck / extra mid. He even tried the odd running bounce.

- McLean doing what we’ve come to expect, which is compete hard in the air & provide a target close to goal.

What suits the mix of our side more at the moment IF we need to rest Grundy?

In my view: Ladhams. No question.
 
In the family club song singalong it looks like the Guldens adopted Chad for the occasion, which is pretty bloody cute (especially given Errol wasn’t even playing!)
 
Dubai Quacker said:
I sat on a pleasant little hill and watched the Reserves at Tramway.

What I saw:

- Ladhams running around clearly trying to play as the mobile ruck / extra mid. He even tried the odd running bounce.

- McLean doing what we’ve come to expect, which is compete hard in the air & provide a target close to goal.

What suits the mix of our side more at the moment IF we need to rest Grundy?

In my view: Ladhams. No question.
Click to expand...
No doubt we were on the same little hill (near the light rail?) and saw the same things. If Grundy is out of the team Ladhams is in, no question. Where questions arise is if we try to rest him more in-game.
 

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