Autopsy Round 9, 2024: Hawthorn v St.Kilda

[beside the seaside]

I’d rather a clear direction. North is at least clear in what its path is. We’re absolutely not imo. Half in rebuild, half in trying to play finals this year. Usually winds up with a poor outcome.

Come on mate, you really think if you were a North fan you'd be going "all good guys we have a clear direction". Go check out their weekly autopsy threads.

 

[BrutThough]

I’d rather a clear direction. North is at least clear in what its path is. We’re absolutely not imo. Half in rebuild, half in trying to play finals this year. Usually winds up with a poor outcome.

I would have thought it was pretty easy to understand the directive of trying to win while giving opportunities to the top end kids we have on our list. I dont see why it's hard to understand it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Or at least, I dont see why it's any less clear than North's current path of watching their kids get thumped each week and hoping for another priority pick.

 

[phantom13]

Come on mate, you really think if you were a North fan you'd be going "all good guys we have a clear direction". Go check out their weekly autopsy threads.

I think they at least know what the target is.

What’s ours? X games won? X debutants?

We’re half pregnant in a rebuild kicking 8/9 goals a week and playing the ugliest brand of footy in the afl at the moment.

 

[The Boar]

FMD. We had more disposals, more marks, more marks inside 50, more contested and uncontested possessions, more clearances, more inside 50s, more tackles and even with our poor I50 efficiency, you usually don't lose when that happens. But what can I say other than, "We are StKilda!"

Comes down to quality.
Quality of clearances, inside 50s, etc. we struggle at "effective stats" and go and watch Marshall's game if you want an example.

Tried hard, amazing SuperCoach points but count the turnovers. "Effectiveness" is a huge issue for us.

 

[MCG-Unit]

Match thread discussion

Tip out Bonner - bring in Henry

Yep good one

Bonner 30 disp 81% TOG 87% DE

Henry 4 disp 82% TOG

 

[Diehard Saint]

100%

A lot of folk not understanding

I go into every season expecting to make finals.
Comes a time though, like now, when I’m much happier to finish bottom 4/5 for the next two years to get some very good talent before Tassie enters the comp.

Absolutely pointless finishing mid-table year after year.
Can’t play a team full of kids but give them all a go at various stages.

 

[The Cobra]

I think they at least know what the target is.

What’s ours? X games won? X debutants?

We’re half pregnant in a rebuild kicking 8/9 goals a week and playing the ugliest brand of footy in the afl at the moment.

If we had 10+ first round draft picks gifted (plus maybe more to come) to us the messaging would be simple - ours is much more nuanced

 

[phantom13]

Our forward line today was

Owens, King, Hayes
Wilson, Hill, Henry

If we’re not playing Collard today out of necessity, let alone blooding some youth then what the heck are we doing.

 

[Teflon]

I feel like we have the most stupid team in the league. The game plan is obviously to handball and move the ball on quick, but they're too idiotic to know when to handball and when not. So many times we had players running forward and all they are thinking about is who to handball is to next. Go from an attacking position to putting themselves under pressure for no reason at all. Case in point was Webster at the end completely telegraphing the fact he was going to handball it back to whoever it was on the outside, he never looked up once. He could have had 10 men standing alone and he wouldn't have seen them. Absolutely braindead.

This is so true
How often do you see us handball to a player who is immediately under pressure…we have some seriously dumb footballers with poor decision making ability …like hot potato with Benny Hill music!!

 

[Saint Shags]

What this year so far has shown us is that we don't really have a clear path. Players brought in add to a position that we have players for. Hb flankers and wingers.
Don't get me wrong I love Darcy. Reckon he is easily our best pick in 5 years.
But we have now plenty of wingers and hb flankers but not enough spots. But we play them all any way.
Paton
Nas
Hill
Sincs
Bonner
Darcy
Hastie
Wood

The argument isn't whether Bonner should be in the team. The argument should be, is having him as that 'qb' role stopping Sincs from having the best impact he can?

 

[NoisyMinor]

Liability.

 

[phantom13]

If we had 10+ first round draft picks gifted (plus maybe more to come) to us the messaging would be simple - ours is much more nuanced

Hawthorn didn’t get gifted anything and they’ve gone a full rebuild and they beat us today without their best player.

It’s cool, we’ll finish 10th, get a pick in the early teens stay “competitive” and win nothing for another 150 years.

It’s the St.Kilda way.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Hawks wanted it more.
This club is a ******* disgrace.
Sir Alex Ferguson as coach would get the same results.
Never seen so many 21 year old teenagers shrug tackles like it was nothing.

Mouth guards and tackle bags at training this week.

******* lift!!!!

Never actually seen 21 year old teenagers ever…

 

[Premium]

Great post, some people can see it, do we want to be the same old saints? Only 2nd year into Rtb and a total overhaul of footy dept and the players will be next, this is a 5 year plan too many people think we under achieving well maybe a little but we definitely over achieved last year

They brought in Lyon because Basset and co thought Ratten wasn't getting the best of the talent - now it's a 5 yr plan on top of the last 5 yr plan.

To me our key talent have totally gone off the boil since Lyons comeback - Steele is no where he was before , King gone backwards , Membery finished , Seb Ross just keeps getting games / how.

 

[Saint Shags]

View attachment 1986478




Liability.

The problem is that he is the only one creating anything in the middle. If mids were winning the ball he wouldn't need to just grab it and roost it forward.

 

[NoisyMinor]

The problem is that he is the only one creating anything in the middle. If mids were winning the ball he wouldn't need to just grab it and roost it forward.

No, if he was a half-decent tap ruckman, he wouldn't have to roost it forward.

When his disposals are 6:1 kicks to handballs and he's turning over more than a third of his possessions, he's not only turning the ball over, but he's consolidating uncontested possession for the opposition.

No wonder our midfield can't work their way into any games. 'Protecting' the midfield is burning the midfield.

'Oh well, guess that try didn't work, now we play zone for another two minute stretch and hope to turn it over before the forwards have dropped back too far to have an impact'

Fortunately for Marshall's player value, there's no public 'Effective Clearance' stat to tell the real story.

 

[The Cobra]

This is so true
How often do you see us handball to a player who is immediately under pressure…we have some seriously dumb footballers with poor decision making ability …like hot potato with Benny Hill music!!

Hawthorn didn’t get gifted anything and they’ve gone a full rebuild and they beat us today without their best player.

It’s cool, we’ll finish 10th, get a pick in the early teens stay “competitive” and win nothing for another 150 years.

It’s the St.Kilda way.

Nice movement- North to Hawthorn- you should play midfield & look for the corridor you are good at it - I’ll alert the recruters!

 

[Saint Shags]

They brought in Lyon because Basset and co thought Ratten wasn't getting the best of the talent - now it's a 5 yr plan on top of the last 5 yr plan.

To me our key talent have totally gone off the boil since Lyons comeback - Steele is no where he was before , King gone backwards , Membery finished , Seb Ross just keeps getting games / how.

This year our skills have gone backwards and all those that had years of improvement last year have gone backwards. The question is why?
What happened?

 

[Diehard Saint]

We need Max to give himself an uppercut and pull his finger out ... can't keep giving him excuses

Don’t we have a sports psych on staff?
Time for him/her to earn their paycheque.
Probably quite a few who could benefit.

 

[PandaG]

Yep Steele tries hard and is a decent footballer but he's probably the worst captain we've ever had.

On SM-S928B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I agree with this

 

[Premium]

This year our skills have gone backwards and all those that had years of improvement last year have gone backwards. The question is why?
What happened?

Something has happened - and its not good

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Far from our biggest issue at all, but just relly really need to vent about something.

I counted 8 clearances between Marshall and Steele from a stoppage where they turned and kicked the ball directly forward. The ball went low and somewhere between 15 - 30 metres in a straight line towards the goal. Most were inside 50s, but not all.

Hawthorn either marked or picked up the ball from the deck uncontested every time. Every single one. Only 2 or 3 times did I even see a St.Kilda jumper in the tv frame

8 times! What the actual f*ing f**!! And I only started counting in the second quarter (and I am not watching a replay of that game). 8!!

Given how many times Marshall grabs the ball and dump kicks it forward, why is there never a St.Kilda player standing there?? Is the logic to free up space? If so, WHY TF don't we ever man up the Hawthorn player standing alone in that space??

WHAT THE ACTUAL F***???? It makes absolutely zero sense.

 

[PandaG]

Yeah ok heard you the fifteenth time cheers for the response.

Max king is not the issue

 

[littlecreatures]

Hawthorn beat the premiers last year.

I'm not excusing today or saying it's acceptable, but the industry as a whole these days just overreact so much to different results, and we as a fanbase do a bloody good job of it too.

It sucks to lose and to play so badly but you're basically suggesting we just tank. It's not really an option, no one wants to go watch their side lose by 100 points each week and anyway it hasn't even really been proven that it works.

We are playing a lot of kids at the moment. Will they end up stars? Who knows, many of them such as Hastie today are still miles off it but are hopefully gaining from the experience and will one day be decent AFL players or, fingers crossed, stars.

But when people say "North will overtake us in two years" like it's some guarantee, it's really just over-emotive nonsense.

The best option we have is to get it together and beat Freo next week, hopefully get some players back into form and become a good team to watch again which I think we were late last year.

I really do agree with you, but just wonder if sitting 14th on the ladder at 3-6 and really struggling to beat most sides in the league is playing on everyone’s minds. We’re a hard watch at the moment, fundamental skills are poor and we struggle to score.

 

[mighty_sainters]

I’m here for BrutThough level headedness.

Keeping me sane.