Roylion

[Denno]

Didn't hear Fitzroy compaining about the merger with Footscray? What, you only get your hearing aid in the past few years? Most Fitzroy people didn't want ANY merger.

 

[Kaz]

Not many ex Fitzroy players still going around.
Out of the Bears
Voss,McRae,Scott,Fletcher,Notting,Ashcroft,
Lynch,Akermanis,Clarke,Leppitch,Keating,Scott plus others.
I would say that being the bottom of the ladder for a number of years, bad recruiting, took its toll in the latter years.

 

[Olmy]

Calm down Danni - unless people are prepared to listen, then there will be no "education process" (as you have referred to).

And who better to listen to then those who are directly affected!

STEVE! I could give you a bit of a run-down on where 'some' of those players are these days (it will take a while though - need to check the resources!). But it might be a topic which is better reserved for the forum!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Rowan Warfe is kicking on at the Swans - big time.

Examples such as Warfe do beg the question - did the merged entity take the right 8 ex-Fitzroy players ?

 

[Danni]

BSA, it has been a long time view of my family that they didn't pick the right 8 players, but not too much we can do about that now.

 

[Danni]

Olmy - we can educate who ever needs it, doesn't have to be just those directly affected. Infact, some of the posters here had made it clear that they never really thought about certain aspects of the merger before it was discussed both here on the boards and in the chat room. Now they say, hmmm well that is different to what I assumed.

And as for keeping it on the forum, why not here? It is great to get the 'outsiders' views as well. I personally enjoy reading their views on topics that pertain to 'our' club, and it also gives those that aren't a member of the forum, the chance contribute to the conversations.
Take this topic - it wasn't even started by a Lions supporter!

 

[Hawkforce]

How long do you (QLD based) Lions supporters reckon it will be before the Lions are more reported than the Bronco's.

If ever.

 

[Danni]

God only knows the answer to that one Hawforce!!!

We do however get better coverage than we used to, and during football season, the lions have graced the front page of the paper sport suppliment (on a Monday) about once for every 2 times the Broncos are there. That is a big change. In 1999 during the winning streak they even made the papers front page a couple of times!

I think the showing of AFL on tv is the key to it up here. And I am not talking about just the games. We get a Saturday Arvo and most often the Sunday arvo double header live on ch7.

But shows like 'The Game' and the Melb version of 'The Footy Show' could get some decent viewing stats if they weren't shown at lovely times like 12.30 am.

For many of you that have seen Sam and the Fatman in recent weeks, you may have been watching for the first time, Paul Vaughton, yet we have him up here every Thursday night during the season on the Rugby League Footy Show. Some reports have shown QLDers warming and actually liking the antics of Sam Newman.

It is sad, but QLD seems to be at the mercy of Sydney when it comes to the tv programming. When the build up to the round 20 'blockbuster' was on, the Lions petitioned ch7 to show it live up here. Citing it would be a great promotion for the code in QLD to have such a high profile game shown live. Intead, the decision had to be deferred to what programming in Sydney wanted to show that night, and we ended up getting the game at something like 10.15 or 11.15, instead of the usual 12.45.

So it has a long way to go, tho Aussie Rules is now the most played code of football in schools, and the new AFLQ commission is there to try and improve the quality and increase the numbers even more.

We will probably have to wait till that generation of junior players comes into adulthood before we see the sort of coverage that we would love to have now!

 

[CJH]

For your list Mr Ripper, Matthew Manfield was delisted by Richmond at the end of the 1999 season.

BSA, the fact that Brisbane have drafted Pike, and that Warfe, Paxman, Barker are still doing well 4 years later would suggest that they did miss the mark in terms of select the best of the old Roy Boy's

------------------
This is a hallucination and these faces are in a dream. A computer generated environment; a fantasy island you can do anything and not have to face the consequences.

 

[InTheBack!]

they had Barker but traded him on.

 

[Hawkforce]

Brad Scott's injury problems have been a disaster.

We were very sorry to see him go.

 

[Olmy]

Actually CJH, Matthew Manfield was delisted by Richmond at the end of 1998, and then played off the rookie list at Collingwood during 1999 (and did quite well too).

He played for someone in the SANFL in 2000.

Danni - in referring to "keeping it on the forum", I was talking about the discussion revolving around where the 96 Fitzroy list players are now playing. Rather than the issue of merger terms etc.

In any regard, any discussion about merger terms and the Brisbane Lions will be jack shit if the club isn't prepared to back the supporters up on this one.

And why will they? I mean, here you have people telling the club "why listen to 'radicals' from Victoria".

Similarly, I suggest to you, that most of our board members (bar a few) have a business background, rather than that of a football background (unlike A.Piper who was able to match both). I mean, you only need to read their profiles in the Year Book. In this regard, will they even care/understand the issue? It's just as likely that they'll hope for us to go away.

Sure you could say that the club is seemingly not to blame on this one (or are they?). I mean, the Brisbane Lions website has in the past accurately stated club records, and perhaps this decision is only down to the AFL.

But if so, how come the Brisbane Lions themselves don't know about it? How come they haven't already lobbied the AFL over their stupidity? Why is it always left to the supporters to bring these things up? And why do these crappy situations occur in the first place? (Do Essendon and Carlton often get treated this way?).

Then again, perhaps someone within the Brisbane Lions quietly suggested to higher powers that the change be made in the first place. After all, there are a few long-standing Bears people on the board . . .

 

[Shinboners]

BSA/CJH

I remember in about the second year after the Brisbane-Fitzroy merger, several of the Fitzroy players that didn't get taken by the Lions were doing pretty well at their new clubs. I think it was Dent and Wharfe that commented that they felt a bit miffed that they wearn't picked up and went out to their new clubs to prove that Brisbane erred in not picking them. But at the time, I reckon that most people would've felt that Brisbane did pick the best 8 players from Fitzroy....the only contentious ones would've been not picking Pike and trading away Primus.

Of the players that North picked up:

Pike. He was a very good player for North and plenty of fans were disappointed that he got delisted.

Chandler. If it wasn't for 2 broken legs in '99, I reckon he would've been a regular in the North side. I was saddened to read that he got delisted.

Mellington. Like many tall marking forwards, he didn't get a look in. His most memorable moment was kicking the winning goal vs. Hawthorn at Arctic Park from 45m out in 1997.

Clayton. He went to Brisbane, got delisted, and then was picked up by North. Plenty of North fans have a soft spot for him, but with our influx of midfielders picked up in the draft, he's going to have to improve on his infamous helicopter punts if he's going to hold his place in the team.

 

[curator]

Originally posted by Olmy:
Calm down Danni - unless people are prepared to listen, then there will be no "education process" (as you have referred to).

And who better to listen to then those who are directly affected!

STEVE! I could give you a bit of a run-down on where 'some' of those players are these days (it will take a while though - need to check the resources!). But it might be a topic which is better reserved for the forum!

 

[Pa-Kettle]

Ze conspiracy theory master has entered our midst! Velcome Comrade Olmster. Ve have vondered ven your 'I am objective as long as it still proves that Fitzroy are still being conspired against' contributions vould surface here!

 

[Mobbs]

The conspiracy against Fitzroy was no more and no less than the faction of the conspiracy against the average Joe supporter that was the most blatent.

The AFL can remove freedom of movement around the ground, freedom of entry for the financially strapped, freedom of ockerism through the rules governing provision of alcohol, freedom of sport for sports sake through financial and corporate demands, even freedom to cry freedom through Orwellian doctoring of statistical facts (as the subject of this thread makes clear).

Agendas and general self-adulating disregard began when VFL Park's name was changed. That one always ended up in possession of my goat. Why change the bloody name? It's what it is, NOT what it represents. Holy cripes, how can the public be so easily led? It was an absolute pointer that the AFL wanted to do what they wanted to do, with entire disregard for all else. And US pussies did NOTHING to start fighting it then. We whinged momentarily, but then fell silent, believing that maybe it was an over-reaction on our part.

That was blatent, but the act of Royicide was more than blatent, it was stark AND blatent. This time we DID whinge, and rightly bloody so. Who has the nerve to frown upon the whingeing when THAT sort of action has birthed it? It is RIGHT to feel WRONGED.

Most other actions of the AFL have been supported by vaguely acceptable arguments, such as banning sale of tinnies 'cause folks were getting knocked on the noggin by them. Fair enough, but I'll betchah it was a coup to have that excuse, it wasn't the primary reason. The AFL wanted tinnies OUT because it encouraged that everage Joe IN.

That's the real agenda. US out. WE don't supply those PIGS with enough moola. Corporate int... hmm ... Interested Corporates offer the moola. WE are in the road of financial gain. Of course the AFL understand that the game for the sake of the game, the sport, the social set, the camaraderie is more intrinsic than the dollar. It's not question of them not realising. It's a question of them not CARING. Who can get rich(er) through maintenance of a system that inhibits the aquisition of wealth?

Fitzroy is a blight upon the game. While Fitzroy fans have Fitzroy to cling to, in any way, shape or form, the AFL will have a continual stream of lobbying bringing up points against its actions. Its not the only stream, but its a nagging one. The AFL needs to go into surgery for another recon, because that little Roy bug is still there, chewing away incessantly.

Eradicate the history. Make them never have been. That ought to do most of the job. Not all of it, but most of it. Get Fitzroy out of the stats books, and if anyone else might sympathise, or even be close enough to notice, slaughter THEIR previous life as WELL.

Hence Fitzroy's and Brisbane's (Bears) histories are now to be adulterated until there is nothing for a new supporter to notice about those segments of the past. That oughtah pull the plug on that nagging injury of times gone by.

Hate to say it, but that's what the AFL are about. Geeze, I don't hate to say it, it makes me feel better to BLURT it.

I add an open invitation to the powers that be to come looking for the last remnants of the Roy faction. Here, let me make a small incision in my skull, and another above the breast. See those? Swamped in ROY, ain't they?

COME GET 'EM, AFL CRONIES. COME TAKE THE LAST OF US AWAY FROM US. But you might notice something if you've read this first.

I'll destroy everything that you point at my head and my heart, and I'll destroy everything that sent it on that mission, before these last remnants of what football IS, gets touched by your tainted, bloodsoaked, mouldy rotten mitts.

Some drongo asked how much Fitzroy complained about the possible merger with Footscray. Peter Gordon owes me $100, which I handed personally to him at some upstairs of some shop in Footscray. So don't give me that rubbish.

 

[Danni]

So Kev, are you agreeing with Olmy's suggestion that a member of the board of the current Lions may have suggested to the AFL that they change the way stats are recorded because so many members of the board are Bears related??

I am slightly confused at to which area your response is related to.

 

[Mobbs]

Danni, I was blurting about the sinister agenda-driven obsession of the AFL to destroy the supporter, which is a financial weight upon their books.

Sorry if part of my posting appeared to make mention of Brisbane board members actions. I made no intential comment to that effect, and have no opinion on that matter.

If a board member has been pressured to step into line with AFL's artistic creativity in regard to clubs' and league history, then that would serve to heighten the anger that I already bear toward AFL house. I can't be angry at a bloke or bird who had a gun pointed at his head (and that probably happens nowadays), because supporters have the figurative gun pointed at their head perpetually : 'Accept our rules, or sacrifice the sating of your love for your team.'

Someone stated the word 'conspiracy' in a questioning tone, and I tend to elaborate on that when it needs explanation.

 

[Danni]

Thanks Kev, it has been quite a while since myself and others have been able to read your unique writing style - so it will take some time to get back into 'kev-mode' when reading them.

Hmmm - I am surprised you haven't found yourself at loggerheads with Dan24 yet. Poor bloke probably wouldn't know what had hit him.!!

 

[dyson]

Who needs Noel Gordon to put his foot in it when you have the AFL. This decision by the AFL is totally insensitive to the Fitzroy supporters who have tried to embrace the new entity as merger and not a takeover. The AFL have no regard for the history and tradition of Fitzroy. The AFL's only concern was to get a supporter base in Melbourne for the Bears.

 

[Danni]

ahhhhh Dyson - you synnical being - get it right - the AFL's main objective was not to get a supporter base in Melbourne for the Bears - it was to get Fitzroy out of the competition to make it more 'viable' for the other clubs to survive! sheeez, had they cared that much about the Bears - they would have given all sorts of support many years ago, instead of only giving it to the Lions now!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

No doubt about it, it's tragic. I long for the days of old with the Roys battling on and the Swans at Lakeside. I'm a realist however and ever since footy became about money and not the game, a little bit of that suburban passion died. It's still there but would you have ever considered 20 years ago supporting a rival Melbourne club simply because they were playing one of the cocky interstate clubs (refer Adelaide)before they had any reason to be cocky.

Sad to say but Fitzroy needed the merger more than Brisbane did. The deal might have been worked out to appear fair and equal but it was always Fitzroy coming to work for the Bears. In that way I can understand the statistics ruling. The Bears players weren't fighting for survival in a struggling club. They turned up to work just as they had before but were Lions instead of Bears. How would you feel if you worked for a large firm that took over a struggling firm and as a result your past performance was disregarded? Nothing had changed for them. To be fair, the Fitzroy players didn't choose their fate so they also should not have their slate cleaned. But then retired pre-merger Fitzroy players should not be classed in the Brisbane Lions category. The Brisbane games record holder should not be considered to now be behind the Fitzroy games record holder.

I can't offer any solutions, only see things from both sides. Having lived in Brisbane and Melbourne, I know the passion and the awe-inspiring sense of history that prevails amongst the traditional clubs but I also know that Brisbane fans are generally keen to be a part of that history and very respectful of other teams.

I for one believe that all teams have their place in this great game and even as a passionate Blue, I would shed a tear for any that disappeared (maybe I would only shake my head a little about Essendon but their supporters would understand why). If Fitzroy had have survived, I would certainly have been a closet semi-supporter.

Fitzroy fans, the face that the Lions portrays to the public in Brisbane is certainly one of conciliation with the Melbourne supporters. It is only by giving them your support and input that you can revive the Roys. By allowing your grief to keep you away, you are allowing your team to fade easily. If say, one third of the Lions members were Fitzroy supporters, that is a mighty strong voice that has to be listened to.

Surely some middle ground there Dan & Danni!

[This message has been edited by The Old Dark Navy's (edited 08 November 2000).]

 

[Danni]

Ahhhhhh do I rue the day I told you about this site - or kiss you when I see you tomorrow at work Old Dark Navy's!! For a Carlton supporter, living in Brisbane, you have a great grasp on things!

"Fitzroy fans, the face that the Lions portrays to the public in Brisbane is certainly one of conciliation with the Melbourne supporters. It is only by giving them your support and input that you can revive the Roys. By allowing your grief to keep you away, you are allowing your team to fade easily. If say, one third of the Lions members were Fitzroy supporters, that is a mighty strong voice that has to be listened to."

You are wonderful!! hmm have you been sitting at my desk in the last 2 days looking at that bears/roys or Voss/Molloy pic on the wall by anychance??? LOL

 

[lioness]

Hey Old Dark Navy's, I totally agree with you regarding the Fitzroy supporters, and by staying away they are kinda letting their team fade. (I would have quoted there but I am too tired to be bothered lol) I would love to see more support for the Lions here in Melbourne, every week the numbers were rising in 1999 when the team was on such a roll, and the difference it made was just incredible. One thing that can be said about Fitzroy fans is that we were small in number but vocally we could match it with the biggest of supporter bases.

LOL I know there isn't much left of the old Roys, but I have followed the Brisbane Lions from day one and I never really compare the two. Honestly.

Olmy, good to see ya here. It's me, lawrencegirl

Jacs

 

[Kaz]

Bottom line in Melbourne in 1996, the Roys had 5500 members.Thats true members, not cats, dogs etc. A fact. I did the mail out for the club.Stuffed the bloody envelopes.
So to get 3000, I think is a good result.
People have made an idvividual choice to join or not, for whatever reason.
Bagging the club is not the answer.
When will people remember that on that fateful day 4th July 1996.
The presidents of all the AFl clubs voted against a merger with North.Not the AFL commission.If that was the only vote done that day. Fitzroy would have ceased to exist at that point in time. DEAD.
Thats becuase they were bankcrupt.
For gods sake, Brisbane merged with the Roys.For whatever reasons.
Brisbane were not insolvent, they were 3rd on the ladder, had a good list, increasing membership base, turning a profit.
For merging with an insolvent company, they changed their name, colours, their song, their jumper.
Maybe on the 4th July 1996 they should have hushed their mouths, and history would show, that the majority of other AFl clubs voted Fitzroy out of the competition becuase they were insolvent.Instead now they are made out to be the big bad meanies, makes you wonder eh.