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Roylion

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One other thing.

Why are you trying to discredit a member of the Brisbane Board.
They only have 8 on the board. 2 are Melbourne based. One in Brisbane is a life long Fitzroy member.

Get over it.
 
Kaz, while I agree with some of what you say, IMO you are reading certain aspects of the 'merger events' in the totally wrong way. I'm not even prepared to argue on it, because it would require one of Danni's education processes. In any regard, it all comes down to difference in opinion - in which case I agree to differ. Others from the forum will know my opinons already.

BTW, (to Danni and others), my point about whether or not the Brisbane Lions themselves would have had a hand in the 'changing' of the club records was purely RHETORICAL. Don't tell me we have intellectual laws preventing the use of rhetorical or sarcastic statements?

More like Orwell everyday . . .

(That's a joke btw).

Btw Curator, I was impressed with your quotation. You're getting better by the post!

Football culture here we come!
 
Actually, the more I read those posts of your "Kaz", the more I see someone who is totally inventing facts to align with their own view of what happened, and ultimately what should happen in the future.

To argue that 3000 members is a good figure based on the 7000 (not 5500 as you claim) members from 1996, is a load of crap. Fitzroy had around 10,000 members when they were winning games in the early 90's - which was more than a number of other clubs.

Similarly, considering that estimates put the number of Fitzroy supporters at around 40,000, a membership base of 3000 (considering that the Brisbane Lions are a competitive unit), is NOT such a fantastic figure.

And, at any rate, what does the comment "get over it" mean? Perhaps you need to get over yourself.

Either that or get an idea.

CARN THE ROYS!!!!
 
Jacs (how ya doing!) and Navy Blue - I also agree that it would be far better for Roys people to jump on board - it would give them a greater say in the club (it's what I've said all along, right from 96).

However, in some cases, can you blame them for not wanting to jump on? A lot of Roys supporters were not made to feel welcome by the club right from the start - beginning with N.Gordon's appearance on "The Footy Show".

Similarly, if the club is not prepared to give significant recognition to the histories of both previous clubs, then, especially and more-so in the case of Fitzroy supporters, you will find that people will not be enticed to the club.

One thing that I find astounding in all of this, is that the people who are prepared to give up on Fitzroy supporters obviously CANNOT MAKE THE CONNECTION between the concept inticing Fitzroy supporters to the club, and the concept resulting benefits of the increased membership.

The fact that people are missing this point says that either people are plain stupid, or have no understanding of the issue.

GO LIONS!!!
 

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The Pol Potesque concept of 'Year Zero' - a Cultural Revolution of sorts - seems to require us old Lions to be 're-educated' i.e. what you attended and supported with a PASSION over many years actually didn't exist as we have expunged the statistics. This echoes Dan24's more anatomical concept of 'a blockage' - time to get the cultural drain snake.

I can't believe that the Fitzroy statistics cannot be recognised ! What about all those clubs' record scores ? What about the Brownlow votes , the goal kickers , the knee reconstructions ? All this smacks of 'assimilation' - get with the program. Aren't the present powers confident enough to embrace the past ? How many premierships have the Sydney Swans won ? None ? Some ?

Maybe the 'merger' will be seen as another example of the 'can do' spirit of the Kennett era - do it ( loser ) and shut up if you know what's good for you. It looked great on the white board but the reality ....
 
OldLion,

Unfortunatley, the old stats shouldn't be recognised at the Brisbane Lions.

This is not like the Sydney Swans. The Swans are atill the same club. They didn't merge.

Because the Brisbane Lions are the product of two teams, how do you define the stats? There are contradictions everywhere.

It's not like Fitroys stats aren't in AFL records. They are. It's history, and you can't change history. It's there forever. Fitzroy's 36.22.238, is recognised as the 2nd biggest score of all time and always will be. It's an AFL record. Look it up if you want.

But the Brisbane Lions bigggest score is something else entirely (probably some score they managed in 1999).

But don't fear. Fitzroys old stats are part of officail AFL records, just like Universitys' and the Bears'

But you just can't incorporate Bears and Fitzroys stats into the Brisbane Lions. It's impossible. Too many contradictions and complications.

How do you do the club-vs-club records ? How do you define the highest ever score, when you are using those of two clubs?

Importantly, how do you define the number of premeirships won. To say "8" is stupid. This would imply that the premeirships won are added together for Fitzroy and the Bears to give a Grand Total of 8. If this was the case, it would mean the Melbourne Hawks would have won 21 premeirship, meaning that all of a sudden, they are the most successful club in the AFL, despite having not played a game yet !!! Farcical

See what I mean ?

No, the only way to compile the stats fairly, is to start them from 1997. This is when the "new" club was born. Sure, you can acknowledge that the club was formed from two other great clubs, but it doens't change the fact that the new club is "NEW", meaning that, the stats must ONLY be from 1997.

Fitzroys old stats and club-vs-club records, will exist FOREVER under the statistical information of the Fitzroy Football club - NOT, the Brisbane Lions, who debuted in 1997.
 
Did I note somebody claiming that Fitzroy's financial position was the only factor relevant to its demise?

Fitzroy took up various initiatives to stem the cashflow program, and/or to increase success as a footy club. Some were doomed to failure because of ineptitude. Others were stamped out by a clubist governing body.

The fear that assails me at this present time, is the fear that someone up in the brasso area of the powers that be, consider it necessary to perform additional rewriting of the record books.

Some here speak of education process. Perhaps one brace of the delusioned are those that suffer Royophobia. I don't mean the general fans like those who post here, I refer to those up in power positions who still consider the remaining element of Fitzroy support to be a threat to the ongoing success (sic) of the competition.

Methinks that the same process will be applied to the records of the Brisbane Bears, but only if the Bear fans make a noise about it. If they are silent, then the AFL does not consider the existence of this element to be an issue to contend with.

BUT if Brissy Bears diehards start to maintain a profile for the Bears in football conversational circles, suddenly the powers that be begin to get a little fretful. Their response? KILL KILL KILL.

Surely that renders these numbats somewhat unfit for a position to make decisions regarding Australian Rules Football. Like any of us would have any input on that matter.
 
I know the long time Brisbane supporters will probably disagree with me but the merger with Fitzroy has been a godsend for the club. They have become a marketable commodity. The Bears experiment was for all intents and purposes, a failure. Skase, Cronin, Whathisname? Pelerman or something, were fulfilling their own boyhood dreams but the recruiting, the politics, Carrara and Capper didn't do much for football in this state. Still the Gold Coast set complained long and loud about the Gabba move and Brisbane just yawned. The Teddy bears or koala bears were out of their depths, a little sideshow. Well, haven't they come alive now, the Lions are roaring (try and make fun of that mascot). The Gabba is world class. The media is right on to everything. Rugby League is slipping albeit temporarily and AFL is making hay while the sun shines. Channel 7 coverage up here is getting better all the time. It's great to be a footy fan. Admittingly I only get to watch my blueboys once every year or two but C7 has got that covered (as long as Jack keeps his mouth shut).

But I digress, Brisbane's performances have been less than impressive this year but the crowds didn't disappear. They have spirit and I believe it is not just Brisbane spirit but an intangible ingredient. They are Lions and the word means something. Ferocity, instinctive, primal. Players come and go. It won't be long before there are no more ex Fitzroy players and no more Brisbane Bears players and no more former officials of both clubs. Eventually every person that comes on board will be an outsider from another club or a BRISBANE LION!!! How long did Fitzroy exist?? 100 years plus!!! Surely, the supporters of a club with such a grand history can find the strength to outlast the remnants of it's merger partner. What was that I read about Noel Gordon? Where is he now? He was a remnant, pure and simple.

This club will always be based in Brisbane but it needs Fitzroy to thrive in Melbourne. To be inspired to win at the MCG in September. This a new club, to be shaped and moulded. They are in Brisbane but they can be Fitzroy. Consider, half of the Brisbane fans are novices. They love the event and the club but don't have that AFL background. You Fitzroy supporters have plenty to share with them, to teach them. You should never feel like the poor cousins. You have been part of a tradition that Bears fans could only dream of. Why not be part of two great traditions in your lifetime.

Dan, you do make sense and I admire your passion. You are doing your part to get the Roys alive. You are right, they can't consider both Fitzroy and Bears records together with Lions records. Who is the games record holder for Fitzroy? Kevin Murray??? Whoever it is, they did it knowing what it was like to be a Roy. To always be a lesserlight when compared to the Collingwoods and Carltons. To overcome against all odds. He should never have his record bested by a Bear turned Lion. Same goes for the Brisbane Bear's record holder should not take a back seat to Murray. I do however have concerns about some of today's Bears/Lions who are probably a hell of a lot better than the Bears record holder and may play a lot of games but have them split between two clubs thus robbing them of the chance to hold a record. Remember there was only 8 Fitzory players to be affected by that scenario and subsequent movements prove that to be a non-issue. It's not a perfect world though. Just leave Fitzroy's history alone to stand as a testimony to a proud club.
 
Olmy were you actually involved in the membership roll at Fitzroy. I can't reember meeting you, stuffing the bloody things in envelopes.I counted the darn envelopes. 5500 it was.
Now I find your sarcasm offensive. I was there, you weren't.
What I meant by get over it, is that on this Board and the Lions forum you seem to be stirring up trouble.
All the time.
Most Lions supporters be they Bears or Roys, want the Roys and Bears history separate, so does the bloody club.
I have already writen my disapproval to the AFL. I can do no more.
I prefer to support the united club, not continually bag them.
I live in Melbourne and I personally think that they have tried to maintain Fitzroy as an integral part of the club.
So please, give credit where credit is due.
If you hate the club so much , don't barrack for them, as so many others appear to have. Your choice.
By the way at Melbourne Uni, there is a person in John Cains Politcis department that can set you straight as to what I am saying.
 
It is Good that we have a team in Brisbane, It is great they are competitive.
The logo Brisbane Lions and their colours are much better than the Old Bears trademark ( sorry If I offend someone, Its only my opinion ).

It is sad that Fitzroy in their own right are gone....You only have to walk down Brunswick street looking at the old Facades on the buildings, hear the rattle of the tram
and look past the trendy restaurants and you'll be transported back to another time,another place where Fitzroy Football Club were once king ! You can hear the ghosts whispering, The clatter of the horse and carts, the raising of the VFL premiership cup and the sadness of reality comes back to you as you realise that a once proud Victorian Football club...is no more...


PA1870
 
Look Kaz - I give a lot of credit to the Lions, so don't play that crap on here!

If you read the forum regularly, as you say you do, then you would see that I give credit where credit is due, and also give criticism where I believe criticism is due. I also give ideas as to how these areas could be improved upon.

And to say that I "stir up trouble all the time" is nothing but a load of crap. I am no more a shit stirrer than anyone else on there. Just take a look at what Robert GB used to post. Different issue, same complaints (ie: a lack of communication - which is what I see is holding down the potential amount of members in Victoria).

In any regard, what is wrong with me putting my opinions up for debate? Those who shirk away from such activities are those who are scared bue to their own lack of inspiration.

Anyway, I don't see your name on the forum (although I'm sure you were on there under the initials JS last year). Not a member? I am! Put your money where you mouth is!

In any regard - have I ever said that I hate the club? God NO!!

I love the club - however, in doing that I am also prone to ideas as to how the club could improve itself. For instance, enlarging the Victorian membership base for the long term (I do see this as a benefit you see - one of my faults I guess!).

In any regard, if I didn't love the Brisbane Lions, would I be involved with the Victorian supporter group (which I take an active involvement in)? Would I have dedicated my fanzine to them (which cost me money and time, something which I enjoyed doing for the sake of my own enjoyment of football, and the club)? Would I write to the forum most weeks about the club I love? Would I pay for a full membership year in year out (and I will continue to do so)?

Just because I disagree with your opinions, and with certain things that the club does, and how it operates in some areas, does NOT mean I hate it. After all, being a paid up member, I am entitled to have, and air my opinion on how things are run.

What about those who can't stand the way L.Matthews coaches? Do they hate the club just because they've slagged him off on the internet? No! It is no different to my case.

Kaz, as you read the forum, you will see that any criticism I level, is also backed up with my suggestions for improvement. I am NOT bagging the club - rather just giving my opinion on certain aspects of their operation.

And my opinion is that the Brisbane Lions could have a long term membership base of around 7000 in Victoria. That figure is approximately half of the 16,000 or so Fitzroy fans (regularly, or non-regularly) who go to Lions games in Melbourne (my estimates). I believe, currently, they are not doing enough, or not doing the right things to encourage such a membership to be affected. There needs to be more of a focus on the recognition of Fitzroy for starters.

People will give their money, if you win their hearts. Just winning their heads (ie: with good on-field performances) is not enough. People have to be convinced by the CLUB aspect, not just the team.

I've given my ideas on the forum as to how they could go about things - and if you disagree, then that's fine! But don't come on with this crap about me hating the club (that's just silly!).

I believe that a Victorian membership base of around 7000 is a realistic long term goal, that could be achieved if the Brisbane Lions are willing to try some initiatives (which I've given my ideas upon in the forum). I also believe such a membership base would be BENEFICIAL for the club.

GO LIONS!!!
 

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And just to clarify - I am certainly in favour of keeping the Bears and Roys records seperate. However, both need to be given recognition by the club (especially in the case of Fitzroy - if you are wanting Fitzroy supporters to follow the club).

I have given the club credit for their magnificent effort in always remembering to correctly cite club records - and giving significant referencing to Fitzroy.

However, the AFL move is something that the Lions should get on top of. After all, the media won't give a stuff about what the Lions want printed. They will, and always have, print exactly what the AFL want them to. This is why it is more than just what the club does that affects supporters.
 
I for one wouldn't call Olmy a stirrer, he is just very passionate about his club and former club, that's all.
smile.gif
Hey Olmy did I ever mention, I loved the songs, by the way, that's going back a bit far now, but meant to tell you that anyway!!!!!!!!!

Jacs (President of the all-new Olmy fan club)
tongue.gif
 
I would call him a stirrer.
I understand his passion for the Roys.
I also think that the continued complaining about the clubs lack of attention to us in Melbourne is wrong.
We have aftermatches, which I love going to.
We have or have had wine days, lionesses luncheons, golf days, the family day jumper presentation.
We are not being forgotten down here.
I dont think they could do much more.
We have training nights before the Melbourne matches.
I have family and friends in Brisbane.
They don't have regular after matches, wne days, lionesses luncheons or a jumper presentation.

I think we have it okay.
 
It seemed appropriate :

THE BARROW

Everytime we'd see you we'd most likely be bleary-eyed,
and we'd have tickets to a most unlikely ride,
and the general feeling was a shudder,
and by three-quarter time we felt a trick of quarters older.

I don't need to think of the rain that we defied.
Although we felt all the pain we didn't mind,
'cause we were charmed by the grit in the face,
of those who wanted the ball, and we would bleed to be you.

You did what you were supposed to, respect for that will not tire.
Those they'll erase what is you, it's still all true.

Here I pledge you I won't view another team,
until the barrow of the Roy is unbound.
Here I pledge you I won't view another team,
until the barrow of the Roy is unbound.

You never made a fuss 'cause you knew that no-one wanted to hear it.
Getting up and getting back without a word took spirit.
Though we all looked for a star performance,
that setting of the jaw was alone worth being 'round for.

We took places for the best vision of all the action.
Level of our passion determined our faction.
Roys supporters have never been frightened.
to play the rival in a bout without hope

Anyone who chooses to blame the jackal's eyes,
forgets the place where the undone never dies.
All we have been has taken shelter in the hardiest minds,
where we can cheekily smoulder.

I don't need an all-new game to hold old ties,
and if you're feeling the same you need to look inside.
The Roys are still in the thoughts and the face,
of every Roys barracker, what we were, not where we've gone to.

See you at the local games.
By destroying us you only make us stronger.
 

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Olmy, get your hand off it you w***er.

Grow up and stop acting like a total tosser. If my friends acted like that ( vague concept for u I know) they would get the crap beaten through them.

Get a life and shut up you moron.
 
Now yer've got me interested. Olmy, what is it that yer acting like that has Homer here in such a bother?

The last conversation I saw of yours seemed to be a dispute over membership numbers. Apparently, when Homer's friends allege membership numbers that don't coincide with another's, they receive big smackee.

Is that the train of thought goin' on here?
 
You're right Mobbenfuhrer.

Some people in here seem incapable of rational thought. I may think and say a lot of things about certain feedback I get but I am never going to be heard if I actually type them.

I admire all the passionate supporters in here and believe they have the right to be heard if they are speaking from their heads and hearts and not out of their arse!!!

God knows, if I was a Fitzroy fan, I would feel it was my god given right to comment on the Lions situation.
 
Lots of heated debate about the Lions.
One thing though, why are you so cross Olmy.
I have read some things on the forum and you seem terribly unhappy with the club.
Before you bag me as well, I am a member of the club.
 
Good one Kaz - I agree with you as well, and I used to be Fitzroy - now Brisbane. I do believe that the social club could be utilised a bit more, but as a whole, things are OK.
 
Kaz I do agree with you - I have said right from the start that the club is doing everything it possibly can to keep us Vic-based members happy - particularly when they brought training back. Don't get me wrong on that - I certainly think we are doing pretty well.
smile.gif
 

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