Ruck dominance overrated?

[MadMac]

In todays West:

Total Hitouts:

1. Port Adelaide 395
2. Freo 337
3. West Coast 325
4. Melbourne 314



Stoppage success:

1. Collingwood 44.7%
2. Western Bulldogs 43.5%
3. West Coast 40.8%
4. Richmond / Geelong 40.0%

16. Freo 36.3%

Scores from stoppages:

1. Hawks 74.44
2. Bulldogs 75.31
3. Sydney 62.48
4. Port 61.43

15. Freo 44.24
16. Eagles 40.36

Top 4 sides are not very prominent at hit-outs and it seems it doesn't really matter anyway. Are ruckmen overrated?

 

[chook2734]

Top 4 sides are not very prominent at hit-outs and it seems it doesn't really matter anyway. Are ruckmen overrated?

No. It's the quality of the midfielders that makes the difference. Get a decent midfield at Sandi's feet and you'll see why.

 

[Ripper]

No. It's the quality of the midfielders that makes the difference. Get a decent midfield at Sandi's feet and you'll see why.

Yep , aside for the hit outs he is our leading clearance winner as well.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Interesting, did they have hit-outs to advantage? That's a FAR more important stat than total hitouts.

 

[MadMac]

Interesting, did they have hit-outs to advantage? That's a FAR more important stat than total hitouts.

No, but there's something else

Best stoppage combinations [decisive clearances]


1. Cox & Priddis [WCE] 14
1. Hille & Watson [Ess] 14
3. Charman & Black [Bri] 13
4. Sandiland & Palmer [Fre] 12


I suppose, it shows the difference between Simon Black and the other 3 as Brisbane is the better placed team of the 4

 

[Tundrawolf]

Not overrated, like has been mentioned before once we get some really good players at the big fellas feet we'll start to see a huge improvement.

Also would help if Sandi was a little less predictable. Would love to see him just thump the ball 30 metres to space for a Freo player to run into every now and again.

 

[Chooksta]

Another thing to factor in is that opposition midfielders know that their ruckman is more than likely going to lose the tap. So instead of moving to a space that their ruckman will be hitting to, they just focus on trying to shark the Sandilands tap.

 

[Belnakor]

Not overrated, like has been mentioned before once we get some really good players at the big fellas feet we'll start to see a huge improvement.

Also would help if Sandi was a little less predictable. Would love to see him just thump the ball 30 metres to space for a Freo player to run into every now and again.

he does do that - but our half forwards never seem to be ready, and are playing behind their man.

 

[dockertor]

Our midfield never seems setup to win the tap, Why???

You never see guys heading to a spot the Sandi will hit to. Is it because he is not actually that good at directing the taps? I did see one that nearly came off with palmer running behind Sandi but the tap actually went behind Palmer instead of in front of him. The plan was there but the execution was not. Was the tap misdirected or did Rhys run under the ball too quickly?

I know its not an exact science but the glaring disparity between hitouts and clearances would have to be one of the biggest reasons we aren't winning. If our hitouts equalled our clearances we would be dominating the competition.

Millions of dollars worth of coaches,players and sports science types yet we cant come up with a way to improve clearances. What is it??

 

[MadMac]

he does do that - but our half forwards never seem to be ready, and are playing behind their man.

I think he did it twice on saturday and both times the ball ended up going to a Carlton player.

I think his performance against Geelong should be his standard. If he does it 15-18 times in a season we're looking at 15 wins at least

 

[Ripper]

Our midfield never seems setup to win the tap, Why???

You never see guys heading to a spot the Sandi will hit to. Is it because he is not actually that good at directing the taps? I did see one that nearly came off with palmer running behind Sandi but the tap actually went behind Palmer instead of in front of him. The plan was there but the execution was not. Was the tap misdirected or did Rhys run under the ball too quickly?

I know its not an exact science but the glaring disparity between hitouts and clearances would have to be one of the biggest reasons we aren't winning. If our hitouts equalled our clearances we would be dominating the competition.

Millions of dollars worth of coaches,players and sports science types yet we cant come up with a way to improve clearances. What is it??

I watched the fist 10 minutes of the Carlton game (one of the worst for clearances/ruck taps) and nearly every tap was directed to ~ one metre in front of where one of ours was.

The result was usually

a: Midfielder fumbles and loses it
b: Carlton midfield muscles in front of ours and gets the takeaway.

My thought is that It seems our mids are not mobile enough and too defensively minded.

That actually works well when We don't win the tap.

That was only the 1st half of the 1st Qtr. I will study the rest later (when Mrs Ripper is out so I can claim the TV)

 

[Lach72]

I watched the fist 10 minutes of the Carlton game (one of the worst for clearances/ruck taps) and nearly every tap was directed to ~ one metre in front of where one of ours was.

The result was usually

a: Midfielder fumbles and loses it
b: Carlton midfield muscles in front of ours and gets the takeaway.

That was only the 1st half of the 1st Qtr. I will study the rest later (when Mrs Ripper is out so I can claim the TV)

Soft

 

[Ripper]

Soft

Yep . scared of no man and only one woman.

 

[bushie]

Voss hit the nail on the head during commentary on the weekend.

Our mids are reactive, instead of pro-active.

They play behind their man at stoppages.....is this a tactic??

Is this Germans fault??

I don't know?

But it has to change!

 

[Ripper]

Voss hit the nail on the head during commentary on the weekend.

Our mids are reactive, instead of pro-active.

They play behind their man at stoppages.....is this a tactic??

Is this Germans fault??

I don't know?

But it has to change!

Yep , would explain why Palmer is the best go to man as He hasn't been around long enough to have the Pro active coached out of him.

Stan Alves reckoned they don't watch the ball off the palm as well.

 

[seanoff]

from what i saw saturday the setup was fubar.

All your mids were behind sanidlands and he was hitting it forward. Judd and Stevens were just sitting waiting in the centre square.

compounding the problem is the half forawrd line was deep and not coming in off the front of the sqaure.

Result easy Carlton clearance.

now whether the plan was the olde brisbane plan of hit it forward and run onto it, i don't know, but Carlton have a couple of real class mids who wouldn't need the coaches to tell them what was going on and they were just waiting for the ball.

 

[Chops_a_must]

You never see guys heading to a spot the Sandi will hit to. Is it because he is not actually that good at directing the taps? I did see one that nearly came off with palmer running behind Sandi but the tap actually went behind Palmer instead of in front of him. The plan was there but the execution was not. Was the tap misdirected or did Rhys run under the ball too quickly?

That's been my main criticism.

I disagree with Ripper, in that, most of our tap losses, we had a free man, and Sandi couldn't get it to him. Our midfielders aren't moving at the contests, because they don't have the confidence in him getting it to them.

Was a big difference with Keplar in there, because they have the confidence in his tap accuracy.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

he does do that - but our half forwards never seem to be ready, and are playing behind their man.

Our entire team appears to be flat-footed during stoppages and centre bounce downs.

 

[Avid_Avenger]

Its time they got the mix right at stoppages.

Either Sandi can't hit the ball in the right spot or the midfielders are dung and I'm sure the coaches already know the answer to that one.

So its time they DID SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

IMO Sandi is a little hit and miss with his taps but its made a hell of a lot worse by the fact our midfielders are either standing still, are too worried about their opponent, are fumblers, or are simply carp at reading the ball off the palm...

You see the difference with Palmer - he's proactive and knows how to read a tap.

Whoever can read a tap should be part of the play, they should be moving and looking to be proactive around the stoppages. Whoever can't read a tap should be blocking and the ball should never be tapped toward Crowley or Josh Carr who are tagging or Macca, Schammer and Peake who are likely to fumble.

And there simply HAS to be a signal to let the half forwards know Sandi is about to belt the ball to the edge of the square so we can actually capitalise on those massive spikes and hit the scoreboard!

 

[Underdog]

No, but there's something else

Best stoppage combinations [decisive clearances]


1. Cox & Priddis [WCE] 14
1. Hille & Watson [Ess] 14
3. Charman & Black [Bri] 13
4. Sandiland & Palmer [Fre] 12


I suppose, it shows the difference between Simon Black and the other 3 as Brisbane is the better placed team of the 4

Priddis has missed 4 games so far this year!

 

[Avid_Avenger]

No, but there's something else

Best stoppage combinations [decisive clearances]


1. Cox & Priddis [WCE] 14
1. Hille & Watson [Ess] 14
3. Charman & Black [Bri] 13
4. Sandiland & Palmer [Fre] 12


I suppose, it shows the difference between Simon Black and the other 3 as Brisbane is the better placed team of the 4

I think this just shows the difference between Palmer and the rest of the mugs we have on the ball.

If Rhys wasn't a 1st year kid, he and Sandi would be no. 1 on that list...

which kind of blows away the theory that Sandi can't direct his taps, altho I have a feeling Sandi operates at about 60-70% accuracy which complicates things.

But had we two or three or four midfielders who could read taps and knew what to do around clearances and stoppages, we'd be flying...

 

[Underdog]

I think this just shows the difference between Palmer and the rest of the mugs we have on the ball.

If Rhys wasn't a 1st year kid, he and Sandi would be no. 1 on that list...

ease up, he's played 3 extra games then Priddis this year

Having said that, it is a tremendous effort and really highlights the advantage of drafting genuine ball winning midfielders. Beyond the aging Bell and the always injured Hasleby, you are mainly left with taggers (Carr, Crowley, Dodd) and outside runners (Peake, Headland, Mundy) as just a few examples. The mix wasn't right and whilst it still struggles, it has shown potential of improvement.

Palmer was essentially a number 1 pick for you guys. He was always going to be more important then a Masten (too underdeveloped and perhaps inside) or Morton (too outside). Had you received the number 1 pick it may have been different but I think it's tough to argue there was a player drafted before Palmer that would be more valuable to you.

 

[dont bowl there]

I would have loved to have seen Sandi in the dreamteam match, just to see how good he is with a quality midfield.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Can you get the same stats from previous years?

 

[Alfonz]

Another factor, which is most noticeable when you watch live, is the opposition tends to have a few players (often the fast/skilled ones) peel off unmarked to about 5-10m off the actual main stoppage, usually on their defensive side. At centre bounces it is often the wingmen ... the opposition wingman will charge off to defensive side while our guy will charge to centre circle. Our players seem to favour gravitating to the main pack / fall of the ball. The other teams have less numbers there, if your technique is right you only need 1 or 2 players to tackle someone and stop them, not 4.

The opposition will wait for an uncontested handball receive, and when they get it they are free and able to break away and produce a QUALITY clearance. I was tearing my hair out at the Richmond game with this happening over and over again.

If we try to set up a similar free man on the defensive side, the other team will often man them up. If we do get our hands on it, there is nobody to dish the ball off to in space and our clearances are invariably some mongrel 30m kick taken under pressure while being tackled. Or if Pav gets it he can stiff arm the tackler and break free.

Also, movement is key. There was one tap from Sandilands to a MOVING Pav which worked a treat in the forward 50, but Pav sprayed a left foot snap wide. The players need to do this more, be on the move, they are often stationary. Even if Sandilands directs the ball to a teammate, they are too often flat-footed which gives the opposition a chance to intercept the tap, or tackle our player if he does get it.

These things seem so obvious that it begs the question what our midfield coaches are being paid for. Or maybe they give players instructions which the players can't carry out.