Certified Legendary Thread Sack Hinkley 12 - Finals Are Scary

[El_Scorcho]

It's a simple sunk cost fallacy problem.

We all know that the August 2023 contract extension was a huge mistake. Most of us knew it at the time, but every single Port Adelaide person knows it now. If Kochie has a crystal ball in August 2023 and can see the next 13 months, there is a 0% chance that Ken gets a contract extension.

Given that he shouldn't even have a contract, allowing him to coach out the last season of that contract is a clear and obvious sunk cost fallacy mistake. Make the logical choice and sack him.

 

[agmsy]

The "I don't think now is the time" brigade is particularly funny given we've won 3 total quarters in our last 6 finals games.

2024 PF - Sydney v Port
Q4: 14.11.95 (1.4.10) - 8.11.59 (2.2.14)
Q3: 13.7.85 (4.6.30) - 6.9.45 (2.3.15)
Q2: 9.1.55 (5.1.31) - 4.6.30 (2.3.15)
Q1: 4.0.24 (4.0.24) - 2.3.15 (2.3.15)

2024 SF - Port v Hawthorn
Q4: 11.9.75 (4.1.25) - 11.6.72 (4.3.27)
Q3: 7.8.50 (2.2.14) - 7.3.45 (3.0.18)
Q2: 5.6.36 (3.3.21) - 4.3.27 (4.1.25)
Q1: 2.3.15 (2.3.14) - 0.2.2 (0.2.2)

2024 QF - Port v Geelong
Q4: 7.12.54 (1.3.9) - 20.18.138 (6.2.38)
Q3: 6.9.45 (0.2.2) - 14.16.100 (5.7.37)
Q2: 6.7.43 (3.3.21) - 9.9.63 (6.2.38)
Q1: 3.4.22 (3.4.22) - 3.7.25 (3.7.25)

2023 SF - Port v GWS
Q4: 9.16.70 (1.9.15) - 13.15.93 (2.0.12)
Q3: 8.7.55 (3.1.19) - 11.15.81 (2.4.16)
Q2: 5.6.36 (1.5.11) - 9.11.65 (5.7.37)
Q1: 4.1.25 (4.1.25) - 4.4.28 (4.4.28)

2023 QF - Brisbane v Port
Q4: 19.9.123 (3.4.22) - 11.9.75 (2.0.12)
Q3: 16.5.101 (8.1.49) - 9.9.63 (4.3.27)
Q2: 8.4.52 (5.1.31) - 5.6.36 (4.2.26)
Q1: 3.3.21 (3.3.21) - 1.4.10 (1.4.10)

2021 PF - Port v Footscray
Q4: 6.9.45 (1.1.7) - 17.14.116 (3.2.20)
Q3: 5.8.38 (2.4.16) - 14.12 (2.4.16)
Q2: 3.4.22 (2.3.15) - 12.8.80 (5.6.36)
Q1: 1.1.7 (1.1.7) - 7.2.44 (7.2.44)

That's one quarter against Sydney, one quarter against Hawthorn, two quarters against GWS, and a tied quarter against the Bulldogs. Four quarters won; one; tied 19 lost. Utterly pitiful.

 

[PortAdelFC1997]

The club is a boy's club. Not enough people inside care enough about Port Adelaide. You have loudmouths like Kochie making fool out of himself and you got coaches like Ken who has at the helm for 12 years and no grand final appearances let alone flags. Missed chances in 2014 and 2020, 2021 and 2024 outplayed completely, 2017 out in extra-time to the West Coast who finished 8th and 2023 out in straight sets.

Taking a look at the coaching team, it doesn't really fill you with excitement or optimism about the club's future prospects.

Ken Hinkley: 12 years as head coach and has constantly employed the same tactics and gamestyle over and over again and never makes changes when it is not working in the hopes that it will break through. Keeps making the same excuses over and over again. We the supporters want to know the WHY it keeps happening and HOW it could be rectified instead of the old "we didn't turn up" or "we weren't hard enough for longer". These reasoning are piss poor.
Josh Carr: For all the talk about how he is going to succeed as the next head coach, his midfield constantly get exposed defensively and their refusal to run back when they don't have the ball. This has constantly been an issue and picked apart many times. Not to mention, they always go missing in finals. Why is that this midfield can't step up when winning a flag is on the line. The amount of times the mids allow the opposition to win stoppages and score is very concerning and alarming.
Chad Cornes: A hack of a forwards coach. Was average as forward, so WHY is he the forward coach? This idea that a key forward's role is to crash marks and provide a contest to bring the ball to the ground is just shit. The constant bombing the ball inside 50 is so predictable not to mention the entries are shallow and once the opposition rebounds, it generally leads into scores for the other team. Also for all the talk about this "so-called goal kicking program", it has done wonders with Port being the worst team at converting goals.
Tyson Goldsack: Shocking start as a defensive coach, I will give credit that adjustments were made and the defence looked significantly better but in the end, they got exposed in finals especially at ground balls in the D50 again and again.

I don't know the other coaches contributions enough but its looking like they have added nothing to the club.

The quicker the club employs those with no connection to Port and actually were competent in their playing days, the sooner Port will finally get some silverware cause it ain't happening with this lot.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

they fcuckin

Doing it for Kenny

 

[rogerjames]

I don't think it's a specific margin per se where things topple over. But rather it will depend on the eye test. They need to be competitive and giving everything.

Earlier in the year they lost to GWS by under 4 goals but looked lifeless and played a beyond boring game style that day. Despite being a relatively small loss, the footy committee and Board were really quite angry about the result, which is why tensions flared 6 days later when they got smashed against Brisbane.

A game like the GWS one will also put Ken's job into a precarious position.



Mate they were never going to sack Ken in 2019 considering their debt levels in conjunction with his contract not ending until end of 2020 (with a trigger for 21).

The times Ken has been in a position where they could sack him have been:

• 2017 after the EF loss (in hindsight should have let him go then)
• end of 2020 season had they missed finals
• end of 2022 had they been able to get Clarkson (which was fortunate in hindsight because they don't get JHF if Clarkson joined Port)
• end of 2023 if they missed finals
• end of 2024 depending on a variety of results.

I am only speculating, but I would suggest a loss on Friday night most likely results in the announcement of a formal succession plan whereby Carr takes over as senior coach in 2026.

This is still a weak outcome

 

[rogerjames]

Regardless of what any of us want, Carr will be the next coach. Might as well make peace with it now to save yourself the angst later.

You say succession plans "has been tried and failed before."

Worked pretty well at Sydney with Longmire and Melbourne with Goodwin. Each situation is its own circumstance and should be looked upon as such.

It's just lazy. Not happy with it at all.

 

[King_Tredrea]

It's just lazy. Not happy with it at all.

Cant believe anyone is defending the possibility of this happening. Nothing about it feels like "Josh Carr is the best man for the job", just feels like the least labour intensive move. Entire coaching staff needs a complete clean out.

 

[rogerjames]

A succession plan just doesn’t happen without the club being incredibly confident and convinced that they have their man to take them to the summit, which is the premiership.

As much as we have leaders like Koch, Richo, and CD who we don’t trust, as far as we as supporters can throw them. The club would have had to have done an external search by itself, or the club hired an agency to conduct that.

The club may be incredibly confident but the confidence I have in the club, given its ridiculous endorsement of Ken over the years & its appointment of very ordinary assistant coaches, is zero.

 

[rogerjames]

Like I said if we all had a crystal ball, we would all be winners and make the right decisons and choices.

Well the right decision on Ken has been obvious for bloody years. No crystal ball was required and yet, here will still are, a total embarassment in finals & our players talking like 5 year olds.

 

[Addy23]

Port need to have a look at bringing Stewy Dew into an assistant role. I thought he was quite harshly criticised at Suns and even a triple premiership coach couldn't help him. After a horror start 0-3, he joined the Lions as a consultant and they have looked almost unbeatable since he got there.

 

[rogerjames]

This idea that Carr is pulling all the strings from the box is fanciful. At the same time, Ken doesn't do a whole lot on the bench either.

They weren't happy because that was the game after the bye, the coaches and footy department in general were saying that things were going to look considerably different after the bye and that the team would be taking the game on more, but that game against GWS was as defensive as you could have possibly imagined.

I'm not sure I'm interpreting your first paragraph correctly. From what I've seen, which is limited to TV viewing as I sit in the Eastern stand, Ken does not appear to be involved in game day coaching strategy, his role is to encourage players from the bench. If Carr is not pulling all the strings is it a collective decision making process from within the coaches box?

 

[rogerjames]

We need to stop punishing ourselves, Ken will be here next year for reasons unknown to man.
Unfortunately it seems the people that can make the call on Ken's future at Port, are either weak, scared or stupid, they must be people who find it easier not to make a tough decision and not rock any boats. I feel for Tredda's but let's see if his stance softens any.

Who we gonna get crap isn't even justified when Carr is sitting right there and another year in the passenger seat may do more damage to his profile than good, especially if Port have an average to poor year, imo our draw was one of the easier ones this season. People's faith in Josh may get to the point where you may as well keep Hinkley.
David Koch's 20 year coach.

Wow even the Crows have played in a Grand Final in Ken's tenure at Port and not to long ago they graced themselves with a wooden spoon, make no mistake, Ken has gotten away with this sham because we for the most part have kept a higher position on the ladder than the Crows and wouldn't have been able to build a membership base full of happy Clappers.

So true re the Crows despite our pitiful record against them when they've been crap.

 

[King_Tredrea]

I'm not sure I'm interpreting your first paragraph correctly. From what I've seen, which is limited to TV viewing as I sit in the Eastern stand, Ken does not appear to be involved in game day coaching strategy, his role is to encourage players from the bench. If Carr is not pulling all the strings is it a collective decision making process from within the coaches box?

When you put all this in perspective, the only conclusion that you can really draw is that the club have a government-departmentesque employee on 800k per annum who is only still here because he is part of the furniture and refuses to leave. A problem manifested by gross gross incompetence time and time again.

 

[rogerjames]

The club thought that Primus interviewed better.

More likely the club thought they would have better control over Primus. Ain't
no-one messing with Chris Scott.

 

[rogerjames]

When you put all this in perspective, the only conclusion that you can really draw is that the club have a government-departmentesque employee on 800k per annum who is only still here because he is part of the furniture and refuses to leave. A problem manifested by gross gross incompetence time and time again.

Ken was smart enuf to work out a strategy to survive & thats where his smarts end. And his strategy had nothing to do with achieving ultimate team success. He's made the players soft mentally & the place sounds more like a child care centre.

 

[King_Tredrea]

Ken was smart enuf to work out a strategy to survive & thats where his smarts end. And his strategy had nothing to do with achieving ultimate team success. He's made the players soft mentally & the place sounds more like a child care centre.

The Hinkley family are expert grifters.

 

[rogerjames]

It's this, 100%. He tinkers over the off season and makes a few changes, but as soon as things go a bit pear shape he reverts to type. Happens every season.

Fwiw, the people telling me about Ken's ability to read the game do not want to keep him as coach if it were up to them. This isn't me getting this from a few executives who know nothing about footy and are using this to justify his tenure.


Zero benefit. See above reply in this post.


I vehemently disagree with the initial statement.

Reading the game and identifying what is going on is a completely separate issue to being able to implement changes within your system and adapt during games.

Taking a crude analogy, I saw a burst water main on South road yesterday. I personally have no idea how that gets fixed to the intricate details, but I can see that it needs fixing.

Hinkley is a horrible game day coach and has been quoted as saying he doesn't believe that coaches have much impact on game day anyway.

Agree that they are 2 different skills. Irrespective of him being OK at reading the game (his interviews over 10+ years suggest otherwise), the fact he is shocking at doing anything about it, & yet is still at our club, is an indictment on the decisions makers. The lack of ambition at our club to win a premiership is so distressing.

 

[rogerjames]

View attachment 2114784

Hmmmm 4 GF & 1 Flag in 14 years = Fears for Legacy

vs

0 GF in (so far) 12 years = who ya gonna get / he saved the club / not in SANFL anymore

Sickening. The lack of respect Aust wide for our club is astounding. Guess you reap what you sow.

 

[rogerjames]

Honestly I reckon he is spot on.

Ken came in fresh in 13, we looked like a team on the rise in 13 and 14. 15 and 16 injuries hit and 2017 was the year that it was time to change direction. Then its 8 years of treading water and shitting on fans and history.

2015 was the year Ken lost his mind & totally through the game plan out the window.

 

[rogerjames]

No, the story is that the club got spooked by Scott saying that he needed good assistants

Now that sounds more likely

 

[rogerjames]

View attachment 2115279

And on the one or two occasions he’s been pressed to elaborate beyond the usual superficial platitudes, he sounded no more astute than his predecessor.

The only knowledge I've gained from Ken over the last 10 years (2015 onwards) is that he's an incoherent loser.

 

[rogerjames]

Apart from the two ‘WORLD FIRST MEMBERS’ SEMINARS’ that featured all manner of complicated information and minutiae from top-to-bottom with ginned up talk of premierships and whatnot, only to then turn around after spectacular flameouts and play the “but we’re so young!” card despite rolling with a first team stacked with 30 year olds throughout.

Never attended these seminars despite the hype around them. From what I heard from posters they were total BS.

 

[raptalia]

Ken Hinkley had this to say after Friday night's loss...

But it's not one person. This is a whole-of-club thing that goes on," Hinkley said.
"If we had got through tonight, it wouldn't have been me, and if we didn't get through tonight, it'd be us.
"I do understand that, as the head coach, you cop the brunt of that and I'm OK with copping the brunt.
"But the reality is, you can't do this without a full club. You just can't."

Chris De Silva whoever he is, is right to ask what Hinkley meant by that last 'without a full club comment'. Does Hinkley mean that he feels he doesn't have everyone's support? Are there cracks in the relationship between the Coach and the Club hierarchy? Or is this simply Ken's flak deflection mechanism kicking in as usual? To defect flak Hinkley will launch into philosophical comments divorced from the reality of the situation. All too often his football philosophy is not matched by the team's performance on the field. Hinkley tries to hard to give the impression that he is the thinking person's coach a veneer that is not matched by results as is evident in a game plan that is as inflexible as it is deficient when it comes to winning when it counts.

In this latest pearl of wisdom Hinkley seems to be highlighting the fact that one person alone, meaning Ken Hinkley, is not responsible for Port's repeated failures. That argument neglects the fact that he alone is, or should be, the chief tactician and the person responsible for the development and implementation of a game plan that gets results. To hide behind the group responsibility thing is passing the buck.

Premiership-hunting Port Adelaide stuck between a rock and a hard place

Port Adelaide's powerbrokers face a tough decision after another finals exist at the preliminary final stage. Unlocking the path to premiership glory may not be as simple as punting its best-ever coach.

www.abc.net.au

PS: I am not sure where the 'best ever coach' bit in the link above comes from. Chocco Williams won an AFL Premiership with Port. In terms of Premiership success Ken Hinkley is the most unsuccessful coach in PAFC and AFL history.

 

[King_Tredrea]

I can't really think of a situation in world sport previously where the coach and leader of a club/team has consistently ran with "don't blame me"

 

[diegodcg]

I downloaded the game against the Swans and sit down to watch it now, having avoided seeing the score anywhere before.

As I was still in the pre-game, I accidentally touched my phone's screen and skipped to halfway through the first half. We were already behind by some 30 points by then. I never bothered watching the rest after this spoiler. We've all seen it enough times to know how this goes.

How can anyone think this bellend is up to the job is beyond me. Just sack him.