Autopsy Saints vs Bombers

[Noidenous]

where theres stkilda there will always be a scapegoat.

Yeah, but at least the players are being held accountable ahead of the coach for a change.

 

[Diehard Saint]

So it seems the board has moved on from Geary and now Joey is the scapegoat.

Well, Raph's no longer around.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I miss Raph Clarke

Well, Raph's no longer around.

It's obvious I'm spending too much time on here, I'm beginning to think like everyone else

 

[Dr Spaceman]

where theres stkilda there will always be a scapegoat.

 

[Mowman]

Thats Funny

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Tim Elliott was my favourite scapegoat
Big gumby shittruck.

You could probably go with half the team from 1982 - 86. Barker, Jeff Dunne and Joffa Cunningham were some of the stand out players....

 

[freebloke]

Featuring Hickey... and Newnes (err.. it was Steven you idiot!)

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Tim Elliott was my favourite scapegoat
Big gumby shittruck.

Ha ha. Yep, one of the greats.

Remember Chris Oliver? Looked ok just couldn't get the ball!

 

[BrianSpeaking]

You actually don't know for a fact. Unless you are Boyd, his manager or someone working in a certain area of the club you are guessing. It could be a good guess because of things you have heard but its a guess. It was a bad investment but I have no idea how it stops them winning a flag. That confuses me. They may have a good enough side to win the flag already.

And to see he was only paid 300k last year means you have got your figures completely wrong. Last year was a set figure that no player can be paid over. I would suggest the set figure would have seen him get no more than 120k.

Umm, sorry to disappoint you but yes I DO.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

If I was a Bulldogs member I would be absolutely ropeable about that decision - paying huge coin to a very untried player. For all he denies any involvement, I think it comes down to the ego of Peter Gordon getting involved where he shouldn't and really smacks of complete mismanagement of a list.

I think I remember that the Saints were initially also interested in Boyd, but once the price tag became ridiculous they backed off. Thank goodness for sane heads!

Plugger66 will be pissed but a mate of mine VERY close to the negotiations had a barbie at Gordon's house on the Sunday before it all went down.
We were keen at up to $750 a year, and that was our max offer.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

So it seems the board has moved on from Geary and now Joey is the scapegoat.

Not in my book, anyone who criticises him needs to give them self an uppercut.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Ha ha. Yep, one of the greats.

Remember Chris Oliver? Looked ok just couldn't get the ball!

Where's Sean Ralphsmith when you need him?

 

[Diehard Saint]

Plugger66 will be pissed but a mate of mine VERY close to the negotiations had a barbie at Gordon's house on the Sunday before it all went down.
We were keen at up to $750 a year, and that was our max offer.

Even that, for me, for an unknown AFL talent would be way too much.

 

[Kildonan]

This talk of scapegoating is deflecting from a very real discussion about Montagna's on-field performances and, dare I say it, Riewoldt's performances. Montagna is playing the "quarter-back" role. He is the designated target and most of his possessions are uncontested. He is expected to distribute the ball, spearheading our forward advances. Opposition teams have identified his role and they apply pressure accordingly. They know that they can let Joey run free and cover the other targets. They don't need to shut Joey down, just apply pressure and his disposal goes to shit. The answer, I believe, is having multiple avenues. Savage and Newnes both have elite disposal. Get the ball to them. Rotate targets. Use every avenue at our disposal. Don't always use Joey. And what the hell is Riewoldt doing deep in defence? He is demanding 15m kicks to awkward positions and putting the team at a disadvantage. He needs to get out of defence as soon as his marking / spoils are not required and offer a target forward of the ball. If he goes lateral to offer a cheap target from a kickout, he gets locked in a pocket and his kicking is not reliable enough to hit the targets he thinks he can. Opposition gets cheap goals and fellow Saints players' heads drop.

 

[Diehard Saint]

This talk of scapegoating is deflecting from a very real discussion about Montagna's on-field performances and, dare I say it, Riewoldt's performances. Montagna is playing the "quarter-back" role. He is the designated target and most of his possessions are uncontested. He is expected to distribute the ball, spearheading our forward advances. Opposition teams have identified his role and they apply pressure accordingly. They know that they can let Joey run free and cover the other targets. They don't need to shut Joey down, just apply pressure and his disposal goes to shit. The answer, I believe, is having multiple avenues. Savage and Newnes both have elite disposal. Get the ball to them. Rotate targets. Use every avenue at our disposal. Don't always use Joey. And what the hell is Riewoldt doing deep in defence? He is demanding 15m kicks to awkward positions and putting the team at a disadvantage. He needs to get out of defence as soon as his marking / spoils are not required and offer a target forward of the ball. If he goes lateral to offer a cheap target from a kickout, he gets locked in a pocket and his kicking is not reliable enough to hit the targets he thinks he can. Opposition gets cheap goals and fellow Saints players' heads drop.

All true and we are also missing Webster's disposal from the back line. I trust his kicking out of defense far more than Roo's and Joey's.

 

[hayes]

Our best chance is to beat them with skills like we did last time. If we try and be harder than them we'll lose because they're an extremely good contested ball and clearance side. Sinclair was class personified last time we played them and we need him again.

McKenzie had a bad kicking game but anyone that's watched him this year in the VFL would know he's a gun by foot and only needs time before he shows us his pace and skill are everything we need.

Armitage2Riewoldt sorry mate I put this in the wrong thread can I get it moved to the Melbourne preview one?

 

[stfan]

Plugger66 will be pissed but a mate of mine VERY close to the negotiations had a barbie at Gordon's house on the Sunday before it all went down.
We were keen at up to $750 a year, and that was our max offer.

Come on, $750 a year is a bit low even for Boydy....

 

[plugger66]

Umm, sorry to disappoint you but yes I DO.

So can you tell is how he possibly earnt 300K last year or was that made up and the other figure was fact? Seems strange that you got one figure wrong but claim the other was fact.

 

[#gosaintas]

No idea how to transfer it onto here, but that gif of Geary spoiling on the Saints facebook page in amazing.

What do you think of his recent form #gosaintas ?

He's got courage in spades but the sooner he's gone the better. Can't kick or handball. Can't provide any run and continually handballs to people under pressure. Wouldn't make another AFL side.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

This talk of scapegoating is deflecting from a very real discussion about Montagna's on-field performances and, dare I say it, Riewoldt's performances. Montagna is playing the "quarter-back" role. He is the designated target and most of his possessions are uncontested. He is expected to distribute the ball, spearheading our forward advances. Opposition teams have identified his role and they apply pressure accordingly. They know that they can let Joey run free and cover the other targets. They don't need to shut Joey down, just apply pressure and his disposal goes to shit. The answer, I believe, is having multiple avenues. Savage and Newnes both have elite disposal. Get the ball to them. Rotate targets. Use every avenue at our disposal. Don't always use Joey. And what the hell is Riewoldt doing deep in defence? He is demanding 15m kicks to awkward positions and putting the team at a disadvantage. He needs to get out of defence as soon as his marking / spoils are not required and offer a target forward of the ball. If he goes lateral to offer a cheap target from a kickout, he gets locked in a pocket and his kicking is not reliable enough to hit the targets he thinks he can. Opposition gets cheap goals and fellow Saints players' heads drop.

And when somebody describes in an articulate measured post like you just did then it is a fair point to make mate.
But when people are just saying" So and So is crap now. Dump him cos he is a soft down hill skier and doesnt care anymore" .
Thats being pretty naive and unfair to players who have given good service to our club.
I can handle player criticism. And a player is only as good as his last game.
Just thought the Joey bashing was getting a bit strong thats all.
Keep up the good work Kildonan

 

[pebblesofsand]

I know its not the right thread but its amazing how quickly people forget the actual circumstances of the Boyd trade and what they meant for the Bulldogs.

McCartney has resigned, their captain had requested a trade to GWS and the Bullies were in meltdown mode and desperately needed a good news story to keep supporters, sponsors the media onside over summer. No coach their captain gone - jeez who much could that have cost them in membership and sponsorship!!!!!

Certainly paid over the odds but the circumstances forced their hand. Could have been a masterstroke if Boyd turned it on but even so the signing may have saved the Bullies from a financial disaster. Hindsight - isn't it great - always allows you to be right.

PS I hate to keep this going but here's no way I can make a 7 year deal add up to $6m on the figures being bandied around.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Obviously though, our opponents don't get to play against Joey's culminative playing achievements, they play him as he is today. Harsh as it sounds, I appreciate that he's a club star, but every star fades eventually.

Yes he can be a good kick. Yes his disposal stats are always decent. But his repositioning as quarterback in defence is only partially successful and his weaknesses leave us vulnerable to opposition.

The coaches have obviously decided that his kicking skills and experience outweigh those weaknesses, but I wonder if they are re-thinking this in light of recent weeks.

I always thought his natural "old age" position would be as a forward pocket rotating through the midfield.
I guess the problem there is that we have several young players who the club wants to develop there.

Billings, Lonie, Sinclair, Minchington, Wright, Gresham, Templeton all spending time forward.

Its hard to work out how much longer we expect Joey to play, and whether all of those listed above will make the cut.
This time next year we'd be hoping that some of White, Rice etc are putting pressure on to be selected in the backline.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I know its not the right thread but its amazing how quickly people forget the actual circumstances of the Boyd trade and what they meant for the Bulldogs.

McCartney has resigned, their captain had requested a trade to GWS and the Bullies were in meltdown mode and desperately needed a good news story to keep supporters, sponsors the media onside over summer. No coach their captain gone - jeez who much could that have cost them in membership and sponsorship!!!!!

Certainly paid over the odds but the circumstances forced their hand. Could have been a masterstroke if Boyd turned it on but even so the signing may have saved the Bullies from a financial disaster. Hindsight - isn't it great - always allows you to be right.

PS I hate to keep this going but here's no way I can make a 7 year deal add up to $6m on the figures being bandied around.

Good news stories are just that.
Stories.
The long term list viability of the club doesn't need to be the price.

 

[sammm]

Tim Elliott was my favourite scapegoat
Big gumby shittruck.

Timmy was terrible. i think the only reason we kept him was that he was tall.

 

[bird_man]

Come on, $750 a year is a bit low even for Boydy....

You think? Seems very generous for a guy that had played a handful of games and hadn't shown much.

How many players at our club would be on that?