Sam Konstas: Are you on board with him?

[Xtreme]

Should just focus on the BBL. Hit and giggle cricketer fails at test level

I AM SHOCKED

 

[PhatBoy]

Should just focus on the BBL. Hit and giggle cricketer fails at test level

I AM SHOCKED

Made his first class debut 13 months before he made his T20 debut.

Xtreme fails at posting.

I AM SHOCKED

 

[Soggy2112]

The public and media boosted him to heights not seen for an innings full of lucka nd a good eye. It was laughable he was given a gig in the first place in front of players who have showed more consistency at the top of the order at FC level.

Who are those players?

 

[Soggy2112]

Kids 19.

He’s hardly the first player to start well and then get figured out.

He’ll sort it out, will need a decent stint in shield but that’s okay.

The real problem for Australian cricket is who else do we pick?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We've fast-tracked young players in the past but maybe in this case it was more about lack of options than the player's level of talent + readiness

Acknowledging that this is a hindsight call by the way. I certainly wasn't one saying that he wasn't up to it prior to his first test.

 

[western royboy]

We've fast-tracked young players in the past but maybe in this case it was more about lack of options than the player's level of talent + readiness

Acknowledging that this is a hindsight call by the way. I certainly wasn't one saying that he wasn't up to it prior to his first test.

I’ll bang on about this forever, however

Talent is the most overrated thing in cricket at the moment.

We have not one single player that’s playing consistently in the Sheffield Shield that says “I’m the one”

We’ve tried and discarded a few but we are none the wiser.

It’s idiotic to try and bat blokes who bat no higher than 5 as a No.3 in a Test.

They all have technical difficulties of sorts.

From my perspective technique is what you revert to when under pressure. It’s your “go to” your “autopilot”.

Unfortunately, first time on the big stage, we got something completely out of the box. The uninformed thought it was the way of the future. It’s not. It never was. It was a scattergun largely pre meditated innings that featured large amounts of luck. If that is your technique…

The cupboard is exceptionally bare.

 

[Soggy2112]

A lot of over reacting going on in here.

Let’s revisit:

Konstas was one of the top juniors in the country all the way up.

His 2024/25 shield season went like this:

152, 105, 2, 43, 28, 39, 14, 88
471 runs @ 58.88

In the A series:
0, 16, 3, 73*
92 runs @ 30.67

Plus 107 in the PM’s XI.

So all up, he’s scored 670 runs @ 55.83 and has a century and a not out 50 against India’s second string.

There weren’t really any other options so chucking him in the deep end was not a bad option. He has a good start.

However, he’s now clearly a bit confused about how to play. He had some success against India being ultra aggressive which is not his usual style, and now he seems in two minds. He’s been figured out.

That’s the normal cycle for heaps of talented batters. They burst on to the scene, have some success, then pro cricketers start to figure them out. Then they’ll have a lean patch while they address their issues, and usually come back stronger.

The upside with Konstas is he’s only 19. He has an enormous amount of time to figure it out.

 

[Around the Wicket]

They need to be careful not to ruin him like they did Phillip Hughes, confidence is key in cricket

 

[PhatBoy]

I’ll bang on about this forever, however

Talent is the most overrated thing in cricket at the moment.

We have not one single player that’s playing consistently in the Sheffield Shield that says “I’m the one”

We’ve tried and discarded a few but we are none the wiser.

It’s idiotic to try and bat blokes who bat no higher than 5 as a No.3 in a Test.

They all have technical difficulties of sorts.

From my perspective technique is what you revert to when under pressure. It’s your “go to” your “autopilot”.

Unfortunately, first time on the big stage, we got something completely out of the box. The uninformed thought it was the way of the future. It’s not. It never was. It was a scattergun largely pre meditated innings that featured large amounts of luck. If that is your technique…

The cupboard is exceptionally bare.

You are right but there’s ALMOST (there are some exceptions) some caveats there.

When I think about players with nearly flawless techniques who made it and stayed at the top I think of players like Tendulkar, Kallis, Dravid. But all you have to do is watch a highlights package of them (which obviously will usually cut out the countless perfect defensive shots and leaves - in Dravid and Kallis’ cases there were lots and lots) and you’ll see strokemaking that you don’t produce unless you have an incredible amount of natural ability to go with it. Kallis’ drives down the ground and through the offside and some of those leg in the air pull shots were incredible. I still have vague recollections of when they first rolled him out to face Australia in a tour over there, and admittedly he failed, but the Aussie commentators on the radio said ‘tell us about this kid’ and the buzz was huge: because of how gifted he was.

Lara was perhaps the most talented of them all and his technique was flawed.

You need a technique but it doesn’t have to be THE technique if that makes sense.

Smith has a weird technique but it won’t work without his amazing eye and ability to intercept the ball with his bat coming down at odd angles.

Graeme Smith had power and probably an underestimated eye, little technique and probably not a great deal of visible talent, but he had one of the strongest minds in the game.

Border probably didn’t have much talent I’ll grant you, he had a very basic technique and he DID very much trust it and rely on it and just knew what worked.

I guess amidst my muddled post what I’m trying to say is that almost all great batsmen have a little bit of a mix of everything to some degree and it is very rare for a very good player to ‘just’ get to the top on technique.

The prevailing view is probably that coaches see kids first who have incredible talent, or incredible mental strength, and identify it and think that they can add a few tweaks later, moreso than just looking at a kid who might have a nice sound technique but doesn’t have the shots, the eye, and the mental know-how - the things that are harder to teach.

 

[western royboy]

The prevailing view is probably that coaches see kids first who have incredible talent, or incredible mental strength, and identify it and think that they can add a few tweaks later, moreso than just looking at a kid who might have a nice sound technique but doesn’t have the shots, the eye, and the mental know-how - the things that are harder to teach.

Steve Smith - freak you can’t sand would never coach it, his hand eye is off the chart

Graeme Smith - horrible grip - freak for the same reasons

Brian Lara - the ultimate freak nothing too shabby about his technique

Border - immensely talented but like SR Waugh learned that to become the best they had to curb aspects of their natural game to become the best bat in the game for a period

What you have identified above is exactly what the jokers in charge think. I’m telling you they are wrong, I told them at the time they were wrong. I’ve had chats at length with some average cricketers who played the odd test and they question whether they would have made it under today’s regime simply because as juniors they were small and not outrageously talented as some.

Talent is overrated.

 

[Soggy2112]

They need to be careful not to ruin him like they did Phillip Hughes, confidence is key in cricket

They didn’t ruin Hughes.

He died at 26, was in peak form and about to regain his spot. Hughes was going through the normal ebbs and flows of the beginning of an international career and almost certainly would have ended up being a 40+ average test cricketer.

 

[PhatBoy]

Steve Smith - freak you can’t sand would never coach it, his hand eye is off the chart

Graeme Smith - horrible grip - freak for the same reasons

Brian Lara - the ultimate freak nothing too shabby about his technique

Border - immensely talented but like SR Waugh learned that to become the best they had to curb aspects of their natural game to become the best bat in the game for a period

What you have identified above is exactly what the jokers in charge think. I’m telling you they are wrong, I told them at the time they were wrong. I’ve had chats at length with some average cricketers who played the odd test and they question whether they would have made it under today’s regime simply because as juniors they were small and not outrageously talented as some.

Talent is overrated.

Yes and what I am saying is that ALMOST without fail - and some of the players identified Border being an obvious example of an exception - the better players at least in my lifetime, which is 41 years, have almost all had a very liberal dose of talent even if it has been augmented with very good technique or mental strength.

Even a guy like Steve Waugh it’s worth remembering that when he started out and had his first couple of phases in the test side, he was a talent player as much as he was just a guts and determination player. He kept getting found out with the short ball though and a few loose shots so remodelled his game and only then came back as the batsmen we remember. He still had that inherent ability within, though.


In an ideal world you would have a good dose of all three attributes and a good knowledge of where your off stump is

 

[demondavey]

19 years old.

The media has basically ruined him. They’ve salivated over the debut and the narrative was that that would be rule, not the exception. The punters have followed the media and formed their opinions. Inevitable.

Probably won’t peak at test level until much later. We will see the best of him at 23-24 onwards.

How many 19 year old kids are facing Bumrah on debut? The same Bumrah that Ponting, yes the Ricky variety, said could be the best.

The kid can play. It’s ok to fail and get found out for a while.

 

[Soggy2112]

All this talk about his technique ignores the elephant in the room.

Currently our two best batsman are Head and Smith.

Neither have great techniques.

What they do have are tremendous hand eye, excellent balance and crucially, the ability to use their strengths to hit balls that aren’t terrible for runs. With Smith it’s his ability to hit just about anything through the leg side. With Head it’s his ability to take the tiniest hint of width and slash it through the off side.

When you watch Konstas he has those traits. I followed Head’s career pretty closely from when he was just playing grade, and there has been question marks on his technique every step of the way. But he’s kept scoring runs each level he’s been exposed to.

The missing piece is can Konstas solve his problems the way Smith and Head did. Head has improved his leg side play to the point where you can’t just target the stumps and get him. He’s now at a point where even though he’s defence is still pretty weak, if he hangs in there long enough he’ll win us the game, because he can punish bowlers whenever they slightly miss their line or length.

We need to give Konstas time to see if he can get to that point. It is so over the top to write him off at 19.

 

[hugecannon]

Joseph said exactly that in a post-match interview. That's what they've identified

Hasn’t that been one of the knocks on him from the start?

 

[western royboy]

Yes and what I am saying is that ALMOST without fail - and some of the players identified Border being an obvious example of an exception - the better players at least in my lifetime, which is 41 years, have almost all had a very liberal dose of talent even if it has been augmented with very good technique or mental strength.

Even a guy like Steve Waugh it’s worth remembering that when he started out and had his first couple of phases in the test side, he was a talent player as much as he was just a guts and determination player. He kept getting found out with the short ball though and a few loose shots so remodelled his game and only then came back as the batsmen we remember. He still had that inherent ability within, though.


In an ideal world you would have a good dose of all three attributes and a good knowledge of where your off stump is

And what I am saying is at that level - they ALL have immense talent - it is a given - you simply do not get there without it.

But for it to be your major indicator is flawed. We have ignored glaring technical deficiencies in the pursuit of “elite talent” - for Test Cricket…it’s not looking great.

I’ve been playing for over 40 years - coaching seriously for over 25 years. I can honestly say that the standard of cricket at community level (specifically batting) has declined significantly in the last 10-15 years. That feeds into our Grade / Premier systems which are essentially glorified U/23 competitions and so on and so on.

If you wanted someone to bat for your life, I’d have no hesitation in picking Border or Steve Waugh in their prime to do the job. The top 6 in this test wouldn’t get a look in if I had 50 picks. 30 years ago we had Australia v Australia A play each other in the Quad series Finals. Go through the team lists and swap Gilchrist for Phil Emery and you have 14 absolute gun cricketers in the top 7 for each side. This isn’t a cyclical issue, it’s systemic and it’s not changing any time soon.

 

[PhatBoy]

And what I am saying is at that level - they ALL have immense talent - it is a given - you simply do not get there without it.

But for it to be your major indicator is flawed. We have ignored glaring technical deficiencies in the pursuit of “elite talent” - for Test Cricket…it’s not looking great.

I’ve been playing for over 40 years - coaching seriously for over 25 years. I can honestly say that the standard of cricket at community level (specifically batting) has declined significantly in the last 10-15 years. That feeds into our Grade / Premier systems which are essentially glorified U/23 competitions and so on and so on.

If you wanted someone to bat for your life, I’d have no hesitation in picking Border or Steve Waugh in their prime to do the job. The top 6 in this test wouldn’t get a look in if I had 50 picks. 30 years ago we had Australia v Australia A play each other in the Quad series Finals. Go through the team lists and swap Gilchrist for Phil Emery and you have 14 absolute gun cricketers in the top 7 for each side. This isn’t a cyclical issue, it’s systemic and it’s not changing any time soon.

Yeah fair enough you are right they do all have it. I’d take border over Waugh. I’d probably take Kallis or maybe even peak smith over both of them (can’t recall seeing a batsman just look so impervious to anything) but border would go very close

Waugh was an exceptional batsman don’t get me wrong

 

[Around the Wicket]

They didn’t ruin Hughes.

He died at 26, was in peak form and about to regain his spot. Hughes was going through the normal ebbs and flows of the beginning of an international career and almost certainly would have ended up being a 40+ average test cricketer.

I disagree he was dropped 2 Tests after twin 100s, they ****ed with him.

 

[Plugger35]

He's from NSW so I'm sure this guy is still on board with him but he also thought Nic Maddinson could be a good test opener too.

 

[PhatBoy]

I disagree he was dropped 2 Tests after twin 100s, they ****ed with him.

3.

But it’s a fair point

 

[Soggy2112]

I disagree he was dropped 2 Tests after twin 100s, they ****ed with him.

In those hundreds he played some outrageous shots, but he had some clear holes in his game. At test level, he was always going to get found out once bowlers had had a chance to work him over.

Go back and watch those matches in the Ashes if you can.

It was blatantly obvious England had figured him out and dropping him was clearly the right thing to do.

The player Hughes was when he passed was much harder to get out and way better for it. He would have come back and dominated world cricket.

Some players need that moment of getting figured out so they can work on the holes in their game.

It’s happened to so many of the best players. In fact, it happened to our two best at the minute in Smith and Head.

 

[Richard Cranium]

I’ve been playing for over 40 years - coaching seriously for over 25 years.

That's pretty cool. How come you've never mentioned it on here before?

 

[revo333]

I disagree he was dropped 2 Tests after twin 100s, they ****ed with him.

Not sure I'd call it that but I agree he was dropped to quickly considering one of the dismissals was a dodgy catch calmed by Strauss.

 

[sr36]

And what I am saying is at that level - they ALL have immense talent - it is a given - you simply do not get there without it.

But for it to be your major indicator is flawed. We have ignored glaring technical deficiencies in the pursuit of “elite talent” - for Test Cricket…it’s not looking great.

I’ve been playing for over 40 years - coaching seriously for over 25 years. I can honestly say that the standard of cricket at community level (specifically batting) has declined significantly in the last 10-15 years. That feeds into our Grade / Premier systems which are essentially glorified U/23 competitions and so on and so on.

If you wanted someone to bat for your life, I’d have no hesitation in picking Border or Steve Waugh in their prime to do the job. The top 6 in this test wouldn’t get a look in if I had 50 picks. 30 years ago we had Australia v Australia A play each other in the Quad series Finals. Go through the team lists and swap Gilchrist for Phil Emery and you have 14 absolute gun cricketers in the top 7 for each side. This isn’t a cyclical issue, it’s systemic and it’s not changing any time soon.

It's about getting into good positions for each ball. Processing speed, judgement, concentration and decisiveness enables players to get into good positions - as well as technique.

Konstas has a technique that often puts him in undesirable positions, but everyone looks like their technique sucks when they're late on the ball, their feet haven't moved, and their bat comes down late leaving a big gap, or they've played the wrong shot to the ball. Someone like Green gets into great positions once he's relaxed, his eye is in and his feet have started moving. Before he's set, he doesn't get into good positions to play the ball, but it's about above the shoulders rather than technique.

 

[western royboy]

It's about getting into good positions for each ball. Processing speed, judgement, concentration and decisiveness enables players to get into good positions

What you have written above is a players technique - don’t complicate it