Sam Konstas: Are you on board with him?

[Cmarsh]

Some more than others. That said if he doesn't want to work hard he is no chance. Still young enough to make changes and improve. He was picked way too early.

Where is the suggestion coming from that he doesn't work hard?

 

[Bucking Beads]

Where is the suggestion coming from that he doesn't work hard?

Your imagination.

 

[sr36]

To play it properly you need to fix his grip - 99% of most technical problems can be fixed by sorting out the grip, backlift and stance.

Konstas has a split grip - unless he’s a freak he’s not going to make it

Split grip is ok for defence and very good for shots square and behind the wicket, but terrible for driving. I don't mind it, but it can close off the field.

 

[Cmarsh]

Your imagination.

Well it was from your post actually.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Well it was from your post actually.

I said he needs to work hard on certain things. Didn't realize I said he doesn't work hard. If he is working hard on his defense then he's gotta change how he's working on it..

 

[sr36]

I said he needs to work hard on certain things. Didn't realize I said he doesn't work hard. If he is working hard on his defense then he's gotta change how he's working on it..

He's a 21 year old shield opener who just scored a century and a 50 in his last game. It was those championing him who had ridiculous expectations, but it's now those potting him who have those ridiculous expectations.

 

[9874123]

To play it properly you need to fix his grip - 99% of most technical problems can be fixed by sorting out the grip, backlift and stance.

Konstas has a split grip - unless he’s a freak he’s not going to make it

In coaching, have you seen players of his age make such radical changes to their grip with any success? How long of a transition period be?

There of course is the famous story of Greg Chappell changing his grip after receiving advice from Bradman, but I just looked the story up and it didn't seem like such a huge change, more like an adjustment.

I am genuinely curious if there are any notable examples. I really don't think Konstas would make a change like that, but it would be really interesting if he just took a year or however long it takes to just knuckle down and get it right.

 

[western royboy]

In coaching, have you seen players of his age make such radical changes to their grip with any success? How long of a transition period be?

There of course is the famous story of Greg Chappell changing his grip after receiving advice from Bradman, but I just looked the story up and it didn't seem like such a huge change, more like an adjustment.

I am genuinely curious if there are any notable examples. I really don't think Konstas would make a change like that, but it would be really interesting if he just took a year or however long it takes to just knuckle down and get it right.

You can remodel anything if you have the time and dedication. But it’s largely an off season thing.

The best example is the late Phil Hughes.

Obviously he burst on to the scene in a similar fashion to Konstas but equally he had a few technical flaws. I vividly recalling his 1st Test in SA where he probably should have got a pair and commented to a mate who was watching with me that if this bloke makes runs long term with that technique then all my beliefs in cricket and batting where wrong.

We had a colleague in the Northern Rivers coaching system and enquired as to why no one had ever tried to tidy things up and the message was that because he made runs for fun his father wouldn’t allow anyone to interfere.

So when he got dropped from the Test team the first time there was no effort made to make any technical changes - what had got him there would get him back

Then he got dropped again and I was told had worked on the major flaw. Sadly we will never know the result as he passed away before we got to see it in the big stage again.

It’s why I am a bit critical of the way our kids are learning the game now. They get zero technical advice or learning out of Blast and after that all they do is play, minimal training and wall to wall Mickey Mouse games of short format where scoring at all costs supersedes good all round batting.

Players who have made it with split grips in longer forms of the game are limited and top order players are even more limited.

 

[Bucking Beads]

You can remodel anything if you have the time and dedication. But it’s largely an off season thing.

The best example is the late Phil Hughes.

Obviously he burst on to the scene in a similar fashion to Konstas but equally he had a few technical flaws. I vividly recalling his 1st Test in SA where he probably should have got a pair and commented to a mate who was watching with me that if this bloke makes runs long term with that technique then all my beliefs in cricket and batting where wrong.

We had a colleague in the Northern Rivers coaching system and enquired as to why no one had ever tried to tidy things up and the message was that because he made runs for fun his father wouldn’t allow anyone to interfere.

So when he got dropped from the Test team the first time there was no effort made to make any technical changes - what had got him there would get him back

Then he got dropped again and I was told had worked on the major flaw. Sadly we will never know the result as he passed away before we got to see it in the big stage again.

It’s why I am a bit critical of the way our kids are learning the game now. They get zero technical advice or learning out of Blast and after that all they do is play, minimal training and wall to wall Mickey Mouse games of short format where scoring at all costs supersedes good all round batting.

Players who have made it with split grips in longer forms of the game are limited and top order players are even more limited.

That see ball hit ball mantra you hear at junior level now is bonkers. They train new coaches to let kids pick up the bag however feels comfortable . No straight bat required.

 

[western royboy]

That see ball hit ball mantra you hear at junior level now is bonkers. They train new coaches to let kids pick up the bag however feels comfortable . No straight bat required.

It is insane

 

[Bucking Beads]

It is insane

It so disheartening tbh. I tried to coach my sons cricket team and the coaching courses just felt embarrassing. The junior numbers are down massively as soon as the kids turn 12. I have such fond memories of all the cricket played as a kid but it's just not even in the same ballpark as what the kids are getting now..

 

[western royboy]

It so disheartening tbh. I tried to coach my son’s cricket team and the coaching courses just felt embarrassing. The junior numbers are down massively as soon as the kids turn 12. I have such fond memories of all the cricket played as a kid but it's just not even in the same ballpark as what the

I hear you

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

That see ball hit ball mantra you hear at junior level now is bonkers. They train new coaches to let kids pick up the bag however feels comfortable . No straight bat required.

That's not been my experience

The sessions I've been to they preach don't change for the sake of changing, but be guided by results.

Eg if a 9yo Lasith Malinga is slinging them down round arm at your Under 10 training, don't immediately go up to him and correct his action to make him more orthodox. Wait and see how he goes. Observe and take in some information.

However, if a kid is bowling wides and can't control them that's the cry for help - "Coach? I need some assistance." That's When you adjust, help, tweak, suggest. Coach.

Same with batting. Don't tell little Marnus or little Steve that they'll never succeed with those ultra strong bottom hand grips, and they're supposed to have the Vs down the back of the bat. See how they go first. Can they present the full face of the bat? Can they score off side, leg side, straight? Hit through the line of the ball? Hmmm maybe wait and see.

Consistently get leading edges or get bowled slicing across the line however? Coach...? I need some coaching.

 

[western royboy]

That's not been my experience

The sessions I've been to they preach don't change for the sake of changing, but be guided by results.

Eg if a 9yo Lasith Malinga is slinging them down round arm at your Under 10 training, don't immediately go up to him and correct his action to make him more orthodox. Wait and see how he goes. Observe and take in some information.

However, if a kid is bowling wides and can't control them that's the cry for help - "Coach? I need some assistance." That's When you adjust, help, tweak, suggest. Coach.

Same with batting. Don't tell little Marnus or little Steve that they'll never succeed with those ultra strong bottom hand grips, and they're supposed to have the Vs down the back of the bat. See how they go first. Can they present the full face of the bat? Can they score off side, leg side, straight? Hit through the line of the ball? Hmmm maybe wait and see.

Consistently get leading edges or get bowled slicing across the line however? Coach...? I need some coaching.

Hmm…obviously I’m hooked in at coaching and have been doing it for a fair amount of time. I am seeing lots of mixed messaging, particularly in the bowling area with what you’ve posted above. CV ran a two hour session on Wednesday night regarding coaching young fast bowlers.

 

[Bucking Beads]

That's not been my experience

The sessions I've been to they preach don't change for the sake of changing, but be guided by results.

Eg if a 9yo Lasith Malinga is slinging them down round arm at your Under 10 training, don't immediately go up to him and correct his action to make him more orthodox. Wait and see how he goes. Observe and take in some information.

However, if a kid is bowling wides and can't control them that's the cry for help - "Coach? I need some assistance." That's When you adjust, help, tweak, suggest. Coach.

Same with batting. Don't tell little Marnus or little Steve that they'll never succeed with those ultra strong bottom hand grips, and they're supposed to have the Vs down the back of the bat. See how they go first. Can they present the full face of the bat? Can they score off side, leg side, straight? Hit through the line of the ball? Hmmm maybe wait and see.

Consistently get leading edges or get bowled slicing across the line however? Coach...? I need some coaching.

10 year olds putting their hand up to say they need more coaching is funny. Most of them just pick their nose and cry to mum when they get dealt a bit of discipline

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

10 year olds putting their hand up to say they need more coaching is funny. Most of them just pick their nose and cry to mum when they get dealt a bit of discipline

Did I not explain properly?

The wides they bowl are the way they ask.

The catches they drop

The yorkers they miss

And the runs they score against good bowlers is them saying Cool your jets, coach

 

[Bucking Beads]

Did I not explain properly?

The wides they bowl are the way they ask.

The catches they drop

The yorkers they miss

And the runs they score against good bowlers is them saying Cool your jets, coach

The foundations need to be sounds first and foremost. The basics are still a requirement even if the kid is scoring runs and not bowling wides.

 

[sr36]

That's not been my experience

The sessions I've been to they preach don't change for the sake of changing, but be guided by results.

Eg if a 9yo Lasith Malinga is slinging them down round arm at your Under 10 training, don't immediately go up to him and correct his action to make him more orthodox. Wait and see how he goes. Observe and take in some information.

However, if a kid is bowling wides and can't control them that's the cry for help - "Coach? I need some assistance." That's When you adjust, help, tweak, suggest. Coach.

Same with batting. Don't tell little Marnus or little Steve that they'll never succeed with those ultra strong bottom hand grips, and they're supposed to have the Vs down the back of the bat. See how they go first. Can they present the full face of the bat? Can they score off side, leg side, straight? Hit through the line of the ball? Hmmm maybe wait and see.

Consistently get leading edges or get bowled slicing across the line however? Coach...? I need some coaching.

That's the way it should be. Different grips just make some shots easier and some shots harder.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The foundations need to be sounds first and foremost. The basics are still a requirement even if the kid is scoring runs and not bowling wides.

I think that's where the misunderstanding is

If little Malcolm Marshall was bowling in your net, instincts would be to tell him Hey, you'll never be able to bowl an outswinger with a front on action like that.

That's what your Foundations Textbook is telling you.

However if you watched for a bit longer you'd see Hang on... this kid seems to be swinging them both ways at pace. Maybe I'll hold off on making sure that he has his Foundations correct and instead help the kid one lane over who keeps hitting the side netting

Whose basics are you teaching?
Shivnarine Chanderpaul's stance?
Makaya Ntini's front arm?
Mike Procter's front foot landing?
Adam Gilchrist's grip? Steve Smith's grip? Rishabh Pant's shot selection?

I think that's what the coaching courses are preaching. That there's different ways to achieve the results you want (runs and wickets) and not to take a cookie cutter approach to coaching.

However, the kid averaging 3 with the bat who's crying when he gets out and on the verge of quitting the game... there you go coach. Help this kid. Grip, stance, batswing, shot selection, footwork... whatever you think will help him. Lay those foundations.

 

[western royboy]

However, the kid averaging 3 with the bat who's crying when he gets out and on the verge of quitting the game... there you go coach. Help this kid. Grip, stance, batswing, shot selection, footwork... whatever you think will help him. Lay those foundations.

At the point of release Chanderpaul was in perfect position

The kids mentioned above don’t get that coaching they’re gone because the vast majority of manager / coaches don’t have that knowledge because it’s not part of the coaching course that they do.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

At the point of release Chanderpaul was in perfect position

The kids mentioned above don’t get that coaching they’re gone because the vast majority of manager / coaches don’t have that knowledge because it’s not part of the coaching course that they do.

I doubt many coaches gain their knowledge from coaching courses to be honest, and never would have.

90% would be from your own playing and coaching experience. Everything you've ever come across, been taught, seen others taught. Every titbit from watching, observing, reading, researching and listening.

Then maybe a few bits and pieces you pick up from coaching courses. What are they - a couple of hours here and there? If you can take away 1 or 2 things to add to what you already do, great.

 

[western royboy]

I doubt many coaches gain their knowledge from coaching courses to be honest, and never would have.

90% would be from your own playing and coaching experience. Everything you've ever come across, been taught, seen others taught. Every titbit from watching, observing, reading, researching and listening.

Then maybe a few bits and pieces you pick up from coaching courses. What are they - a couple of hours here and there? If you can take away 1 or 2 things to add to what you already do, great.

Agree 200% but sadly more and more people are taking it on (because of the explosion in jnr cricket) without the base knowledge that you speak of. Winning is everything.

 

[sr36]

I think that's where the misunderstanding is

If little Malcolm Marshall was bowling in your net, instincts would be to tell him Hey, you'll never be able to bowl an outswinger with a front on action like that.

That's what your Foundations Textbook is telling you.

However if you watched for a bit longer you'd see Hang on... this kid seems to be swinging them both ways at pace. Maybe I'll hold off on making sure that he has his Foundations correct and instead help the kid one lane over who keeps hitting the side netting

Whose basics are you teaching?
Shivnarine Chanderpaul's stance?
Makaya Ntini's front arm?
Mike Procter's front foot landing?
Adam Gilchrist's grip? Steve Smith's grip? Rishabh Pant's shot selection?

I think that's what the coaching courses are preaching. That there's different ways to achieve the results you want (runs and wickets) and not to take a cookie cutter approach to coaching.

However, the kid averaging 3 with the bat who's crying when he gets out and on the verge of quitting the game... there you go coach. Help this kid. Grip, stance, batswing, shot selection, footwork... whatever you think will help him. Lay those foundations.

One of Kerry O'Keefe's self deprecating stories is from when he was coaching at the academy - he says that the only two kids that didn't listen to him and make the suggested adjustments were Shane Warne and Steve Smith.

In terms of Konstas the thing that needs adjusting is his footwork. His hands are great. The gap between bad and pad is simply because he regularly doesn't move his feet and thus they're often too far inside the line of the ball.

 

[PhatBoy]

I think the volume of players who have succeeded despite obvious flaws in aspects of their game, vs the amount of players you can think of who had really strong technical aspects that failed for whatever reason should tell you that coaching can only do so much and talent, or the application of one’s strengths as a cricketer and the elimination of the impact of one’s weaknesses, will do more for a player than the coaching manual ever will.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think the volume of players who have succeeded despite obvious flaws in aspects of their game, vs the amount of players you can think of who had really strong technical aspects that failed for whatever reason should tell you that coaching can only do so much and talent, or the application of one’s strengths as a cricketer and the elimination of the impact of one’s weaknesses, will do more for a player than the coaching manual ever will.

Agree

It's a feel thing for the coach

When to intervene and when to leave it be

I tried to help a natural "dasher" add some decision making to his game once. Was a dismal failure. Ended up in two minds. He was better off when he went back to throwing the bat at everything. Came off sometimes vs making runs never