Player Watch Sam Murray - (Delisted 2019)

[MJC23]

No doubt the penalty will become public just before Round 1 so all the journo's can write a story about Collingwood and how dire the culture was with speculation that many other players were involved.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

No doubt the penalty will become public just before Round 1 so all the journo's can write a story about Collingwood and how dire the culture was with speculation that many other players were involved.

The media do that?
Surely you jest...
Such noble beings, always putting integrity first.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It will take as long as it takes. Really don’t understand why people are feeling frustrated. We are able to replace him under the new rookie draft rules Brought in for this season so there is no deadline as such that will derail our year.

 

[Scodog10]

It will take as long as it takes. Really don’t understand why people are feeling frustrated. We are able to replace him under the new rookie draft rules Brought in for this season so there is no deadline as such that will derail our year.

Actually there is a deadline, March 15. The more likely rationale is the club don’t care. I don’t think it’s frustration either more disbelief that the results have taken this long to be determined.

To me the delay makes as much sense as people speculating on “negotiations” taking place to contrive an outcome for rules that are absolutely black and white.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It will take as long as it takes. Really don’t understand why people are feeling frustrated. We are able to replace him under the new rookie draft rules Brought in for this season so there is no deadline as such that will derail our year.

And my suspicion is the club, players have all moved on anyway.
They will take the decision, whatever it is in their stride.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Actually there is a deadline, March 15. The more likely rationale is the club don’t care. I don’t think it’s frustration either more disbelief that the results have taken this long to be determined.

To me the delay makes as much sense as people speculating on “negotiations” taking place to contrive an outcome for rules that are absolutely black and white.

Beyond the 15 March free agency “ deadline” there is also a midseason rookie draft. So if we miss the first deadline there’s still another to come, presumably in June or July. But yeah maybe replacing player number 40 on our list doesn’t matter that much.

Whether or not the delay makes sense to you doesn’t really matter. It is what it is.

 

[sideswipe]

Actually there is a deadline, March 15. The more likely rationale is the club don’t care. I don’t think it’s frustration either more disbelief that the results have taken this long to be determined.

To me the delay makes as much sense as people speculating on “negotiations” taking place to contrive an outcome for rules that are absolutely black and white.

I understand my buddy Scodog10 no longer reads my ramblings. Is a shame, maybe he could use them to further his own personal development. But for others out there, here goes. On first read, the rules are black and white. But dig a little deeper and we get some grey. For example, Article 10.4 of the WADA Code reads as follows (bolding mine):

10.4 Where an Athlete or other Person can establish how a Specified Substance entered his or her body or came into his or her Possession and that such Specified Substance was not intended to enhance the Athlete’s sport performance or mask the Use of a performance-enhancing substance, the period of Ineligibility found in Article 10.2 shall be replaced with the following:
First violation: At a minimum, a reprimand and no period of Ineligibility from future Events, and at a maximum, two (2) years of Ineligibility.
To justify any elimination or reduction, the Athlete or other Person must produce corroborating evidence in addition to his or her word which establishes to the comfortable satisfaction of the hearing panel the absence of an intent to enhance sport performance or mask the Use of a performance-enhancing substance. The Athlete’s or other Person’s degree of fault shall be the criterion considered in assessing any reduction of the period of Ineligibility.

Now there are a few hurdles to overcome in there (especially the corroborating evidence beyond his own word - wheeling in his hot girlfriend to say she was on the blow with him on the Thursday night surely couldn't hurt?), but that may be one avenue for Murray's team to work with. Another is in Article 10.5.2 No Significant Fault or Negligence provisions.

There is also 10.5.3 - "Dob in others" provision, which is probably less likely unless he is snitching his dealer. It isn't just Judge Smails who likes a tattle tale.

So yes, just like Daniel Wells beard, there is a bit of grey in the WADA code.

I vote 12 months for Sammy M.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I understand my buddy Scodog10 no longer reads my ramblings. Is a shame, maybe he could use them to further his own personal development. But for others out there, here goes. On first read, the rules are black and white. But dig a little deeper and we get some grey. For example, Article 10.4 of the WADA Code reads as follows (bolding mine):

10.4 Where an Athlete or other Person can establish how a Specified Substance entered his or her body or came into his or her Possession and that such Specified Substance was not intended to enhance the Athlete’s sport performance or mask the Use of a performance-enhancing substance, the period of Ineligibility found in Article 10.2 shall be replaced with the following:
First violation: At a minimum, a reprimand and no period of Ineligibility from future Events, and at a maximum, two (2) years of Ineligibility.
To justify any elimination or reduction, the Athlete or other Person must produce corroborating evidence in addition to his or her word which establishes to the comfortable satisfaction of the hearing panel the absence of an intent to enhance sport performance or mask the Use of a performance-enhancing substance. The Athlete’s or other Person’s degree of fault shall be the criterion considered in assessing any reduction of the period of Ineligibility.

Now there are a few hurdles to overcome in there (especially the corroborating evidence beyond his own word - wheeling in his hot girlfriend to say she was on the blow with him on the Thursday night surely couldn't hurt?), but that may be one avenue for Murray's team to work with. Another is in Article 10.5.2 No Significant Fault or Negligence provisions.

There is also 10.5.3 - "Dob in others" provision, which is probably less likely unless he is snitching his dealer. It isn't just Judge Smails who likes a tattle tale.

So yes, just like Daniel Wells beard, there is a bit of grey in the WADA code.

I vote 12 months for Sammy M.

A very good clear post of why the Murray case is trickling through.
Once our esteemed law officers get involved, the case can drag on, as will their bill, no doubt.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I understand my buddy Scodog10 no longer reads my ramblings. Is a shame, maybe he could use them to further his own personal development. But for others out there, here goes. On first read, the rules are black and white. But dig a little deeper and we get some grey. For example, Article 10.4 of the WADA Code reads as follows (bolding mine):

10.4 Where an Athlete or other Person can establish how a Specified Substance entered his or her body or came into his or her Possession and that such Specified Substance was not intended to enhance the Athlete’s sport performance or mask the Use of a performance-enhancing substance, the period of Ineligibility found in Article 10.2 shall be replaced with the following:
First violation: At a minimum, a reprimand and no period of Ineligibility from future Events, and at a maximum, two (2) years of Ineligibility.
To justify any elimination or reduction, the Athlete or other Person must produce corroborating evidence in addition to his or her word which establishes to the comfortable satisfaction of the hearing panel the absence of an intent to enhance sport performance or mask the Use of a performance-enhancing substance. The Athlete’s or other Person’s degree of fault shall be the criterion considered in assessing any reduction of the period of Ineligibility.

Now there are a few hurdles to overcome in there (especially the corroborating evidence beyond his own word - wheeling in his hot girlfriend to say she was on the blow with him on the Thursday night surely couldn't hurt?), but that may be one avenue for Murray's team to work with. Another is in Article 10.5.2 No Significant Fault or Negligence provisions.

There is also 10.5.3 - "Dob in others" provision, which is probably less likely unless he is snitching his dealer. It isn't just Judge Smails who likes a tattle tale.

So yes, just like Daniel Wells beard, there is a bit of grey in the WADA code.

I vote 12 months for Sammy M.

If it’s 12 months he stays on the list.

 

[Pedro]

A very good clear post of why the Murray case is trickling through.
Once our esteemed law officers get involved, the case can drag on, as will their bill, no doubt.

Would the need to argue that in some sort of hearing though. Or is this stuff done behind closed doors? I would have thought we would have known about some sort of hearing date by now, if there is to be one.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Would the need to argue that in some sort of hearing though. Or is this stuff done behind closed doors? I would have thought we would have known about some sort of hearing date by now, if there is to be one.

Closed doors I’d suggest.

 

[jackcass]

Why take so long? It unfair by the player, if proved guilty, apply the ban or penalty and get on with it. If they want to negotiate (I don't know why they want to), surely you don't need 6 months for it.

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Might be it's the player and his team trying to make a case for leniency that is actually delaying any announcement so not sure how we can get to that conclusion.

EDIT: What everyone else said.

 

[Get Gaffed]

Hopefully it's not the case but hypothetically if he were to be rubbed out and we're allowed a replacement player I'd definitely go for Marlion Pickett. Seen much of him and way to good to not be in the afl. Krakour could help him settle and be a settling influence, he also mentored his younger brother who played for south's plus Tim Kelly and Mathew Parker who just got picked up by the saints.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Actually there is a deadline, March 15. The more likely rationale is the club don’t care. I don’t think it’s frustration either more disbelief that the results have taken this long to be determined.

To me the delay makes as much sense as people speculating on “negotiations” taking place to contrive an outcome for rules that are absolutely black and white.

15 March is the supplemental selection period. The mid-season rookie draft is completely different.

 

[Scodog10]

15 March is the supplemental selection period. The mid-season rookie draft is completely different.

So what you’re saying is when we decided to keep him on the list we had considered the possibility of replacing him at the mid-season draft? Before it was announced that it would take place? When the comms coming out of the industry were that the results would be in by mid January?

I think it would be misguided to assume we’ve ever considered replacing him at that draft when we could have had someone training with us to replace him since December. The reality is no matter which way it went we weren’t/ aren’t replacing him for 2019 and if we were the only relevant deadline is March 15th.

As it continues to unfold my two cents is we know the outcome, we’ll be keeping him on the list and the journos either don’t care or have been warned off releasing the outcome. ASADA are useless, but I don’t even think they’re a pathetic enough organisation to take 6 months to know the outcome of a B sample.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

So what you’re saying is when we decided to keep him on the list we had considered the possibility of replacing him at the mid-season draft? Before it was announced that it would take place? When the comms coming out of the industry were that the results would be in by mid January?

I think it would be misguided to assume we’ve ever considered replacing him at that draft when we could have had someone training with us to replace him since December. The reality is no matter which way it went we weren’t/ aren’t replacing him for 2019 and if we were the only relevant deadline is March 15th.

As it continues to unfold my two cents is we know the outcome, we’ll be keeping him on the list and the journos either don’t care or have been warned off releasing the outcome. ASADA are useless, but I don’t even think they’re a pathetic enough organisation to take 6 months to know the outcome of a B sample.

I mean, that's not what I said so please don't put words in my mouth. But we have had VFL and AIS boys training with us.

My point was is that 15 March is just one of a couple of deadlines. If we don't pick someone to join us by then it's not suddenly over.

 

[Markfs]

evidently there will be an announcement at the start of the 2021 season...and appeals will take another year or two after that..

 

[jackcass]

Thought I caught a glimpse of one of those AFL news updates that appear in your phone apps and it said that Murray has been given permission by the AFL to train with an Ovens & Murray side. Has anyone seen anything on that?

EDIT: found this...

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...her-at-wangaratta-rovers-20190228-p510zt.html

Sam Murray has been given the all clear to train with Ovens and Murray league club Wangaratta Rovers as he awaits the verdict from the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority on his illicit drug case.

The Collingwood-listed player has trained this week alongside his younger brother Nick at Wangaratta Rovers in a move which has the blessing of ASADA, the AFL and the Magpies.

His former coach at Wodonga Raiders where the Sydney Swans initially drafted him as a rookie at the end of 2016, Daryn Cresswell, is also coaching Wangaratta Rovers this season.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Thought I caught a glimpse of one of those AFL news updates that appear in your phone apps and it said that Murray has been given permission by the AFL to train with an Ovens & Murray side. Has anyone seen anything on that?

EDIT: found this...

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...her-at-wangaratta-rovers-20190228-p510zt.html

Sam Murray has been given the all clear to train with Ovens and Murray league club Wangaratta Rovers as he awaits the verdict from the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority on his illicit drug case.

The Collingwood-listed player has trained this week alongside his younger brother Nick at Wangaratta Rovers in a move which has the blessing of ASADA, the AFL and the Magpies.

His former coach at Wodonga Raiders where the Sydney Swans initially drafted him as a rookie at the end of 2016, Daryn Cresswell, is also coaching Wangaratta Rovers this season.

That is interesting.

He’s allowed to train. At least that’s ok.
Ofcourse the AFL might have kittens if they were seen to allow him training under a cloud at Collingwood.

Interesting.

 

[Jen2310]

That's interesting. ASADA need to get their themselves in gear and get this sorted one way or another. Do they not have anyone working in that little lab? Or have so many cases to work through? lol

 

[jackcass]

Be good for Murray both mentally and physically to be involved at a footy club during this period.

 

[Jen2310]

Its been what, 8 months since he has trained in some capacity? That's a long time in footy.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

That's interesting. ASADA need to get their themselves in gear and get this sorted one way or another. Do they not have anyone working in that little lab? Or have so many cases to work through? lol

I think you’ll find they have a B sample. And a while ago too.
All the delay, most likely is the legal aspects between the parties before decision rendered.
Circumstances indicate wriggle room and hence no verdict.

 

[Jen2310]

I think you’ll find they have a B sample. And a while ago too.
All the delay, most likely is the legal aspects between the parties before decision rendered.
Circumstances indicate wriggle room and hence no verdict.

So you think the AFL/Club has the results of the B sample, but just working through the legal stuff of it all?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

So you think the AFL/Club has the results of the B sample, but just working through the legal stuff of it all?

Only logical conclusion.

Usually the B sample just confirms the A sample.

They simply go to another lab to confirm.

If it was taking so many months to find another lab I’d imagine
Waters could easily argue process not completed satisfactory and case to be dismissed.
That simple.