Say it isn't so, Lance

[S.Patrol.G]

SPG did you buy that at a bookshop or did you get it from amazon/net. It wasn't around when I looked for it early December.

I bought it at Myer (Westfield Marion) about mid December. A brilliant read in terms of research but saddening to see just how dirty cycling is.

Walsh had Armstrong pegged from the very start and never let up.

 

[blackcat]

I've just finished reading Seven Deadly Sins by David Walsh and the most disheartening aspect of his whole investigation is that Armstrong was just the biggest fish. It's a dirty sport and I believe if you're winning the TDF you're cheating.

but the peloton norms accept doping. therefore not cheating

 

[S.Patrol.G]

but the peloton norms accept doping. therefore not cheating

I believe. Add to that, just because some/majority/most accept it doesn't mean it's not cheating. It is illegal in cycling to blood dope or use EPO. Therefore those that do it are cheating.

 

[blackcat]

I believe. Add to that, just because some/majority/most accept it doesn't mean it's not cheating. It is illegal in cycling to blood dope or use EPO. Therefore those that do it are cheating.

depends on how you define cheating. And you think anyone in Track and Field at the Olympics stood on the dias and was clean? BS. The entire myth of the Olympics and the Olympic Ideal. Ask b0ydman about the Werner Reiterer book. "Positive". Ask Swimming Australia who was the Australian swimmer they concealed a positive about in 99. It was not a young teenage Thorpe. But look at the dias of the Perth World Champs.

But you are right about not being able to win the Tour on bread and water.



Cant.

Do

It

 

[S.Patrol.G]

depends on how you define cheating. And you think anyone in Track and Field at the Olympics stood on the dias and was clean? BS. The entire myth of the Olympics and the Olympic Ideal. Ask b0ydman about the Werner Reiterer book. "Positive". Ask Swimming Australia who was the Australian swimmer they concealed a positive about in 99. It was not a young teenage Thorpe. But look at the dias of the Perth World Champs.

But you are right about not being able to win the Tour on bread and water.



Cant.

Do

It

Not for a second do I think the Olympics is clean. I don't even think Australians are clean. I have personal question marks over Thorpe, Freeman and a couple of our "Golden Girls" of the pool.

As for the Jamaican sprinters- dirty.

 

[blackcat]

Not for a second do I think the Olympics is clean. I don't even think Australians are clean. I have personal question marks over Thorpe, Freeman and a couple of our "Golden Girls" of the pool.

As for the Jamaican sprinters- dirty.

Just delete the question mark and assume not clean.

most assume clean. but you are free to assume the australians who win are not clean

but i dont hold them morally accountable. i also would not have thought this about 5 years ago. i also remember, prolly as most on bigfooty, and especially RussellEbertHandball, were cheering jumping jai turema or whatever his name was in the long jump, only to get beaten by the panama or cuban athlete. now i know how he did it with his form. it was not just a home country sydney motivation.

just like the record haul of gold medals by the brits eh

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Yep I was at Stadium Australia cheering on jumping Jai the centimetre guy ( to quote Rampaging Roy Slaven) and thinking that he just had a big night out and was well informed when he said the black guys wont jump well in Sydney because of the cool conditions. Remember a Sydney Olympics running from mid September to 1st October is like a Northern Hemisphere Olympics being held from mid March to 1st April.

 

[blackcat]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/01/06/bernstein-a-letter-from-lance-armstrong/

Hey, folks. It’s me, Lance. How’s it going?
First, I just want to say thanks for buying all of the yellow bracelets and all the products I’ve endorsed. I really appreciate it, because it’s been, like, hundreds of millions of dollars. And thanks for not noticing or caring when the American Institute for Philanthropy reported that my foundation spent as much as $45 to raise each $100. I’m sure you understand that charity work can be expensive!
I appreciate how you believed all the misinformation about how Livestrong has been raising money for cancer research, while instead has been lavishing its resources on marketing, promotions, public relations, legal fees, advertising and salaries. It has been a very successful branding effort: getting my name and logo splashed across the world, allowing me the chance to cut all kinds of personally-lucrative deals, and creatively monetizing the very idea of “hope.” We couldn’t have done it without you.
Thanks for not looking closely at the difference between livestrong.org and livestrong.com, since any money that comes through the for-profit latter is mine.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Reports are he's confessed. I'll be interested to see how comprehensive the confession is. I'm sure Oprah really grilled him! #sarcasm

 

[Ford Fairlane]

So guys, thoughts on Bradley Wiggins and how easily he destroyed the TDF in 2012?

 

[S.Patrol.G]

What is it blackcat said? You can't win the TDF on bread and water. Interested to see if that extends to Cadel?

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

The whole sports stinks.

 

[blackcat]

What is it blackcat said? You can't win the TDF on bread and water. Interested to see if that extends to Cadel?

did Cadel win?

what was the premise and logic?

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Fairly confident Cadel won. Spell it out for me. You saying he's clean and won because the really dirty ones were either missing or just back from bans?

 

[blackcat]

tous dope, tout dope

but he is doing nothing wrong IMO. He is one of the riders that does enough to get by. He is not an egregious cheat. If the peloton was clean, his palmares(cv/results) would be more comprehensive than Armstrong. Not 7 Tours, but he would have won multiple. Perhaps not as many as Hinault or Lemond.

Riders should reach their peak in the mid twenties. This is before all the androgens and hormones changed the sport, and the oxygen vector drugs and techniques. Before the 90's all the best riders met their peak before 30. They were on a precipitous slide, or a cliff. After 30. 30 and one day. Not thirty two.

Why do we have Klim, Thorpe, Armstrong, all coming back, when in previous epochs, they are about a decade after the retirement age and this precipitous drop.

I think it started with Dara Torres. The American swimmer. Was a mediocre and meddling swimmer. Comes back at 30 and has a Michelle Smith type transformation.

pro sport, olympic sport, is about two things. Winning foremost. Then mythology.

And the business then flows from that. See the history of Thorpes' doctor, err, I mean coach. Touretski. And why was Klimmy doing a training camp in Spain 6 months before the Olympics lol.

And who was the Australian swimmer who gave a positive result in 1998. It was not Ian Thorpe. He woulda been about 13 or 14 under Doug Frost's tutelage then. I know who it was, just not putting it down on record here. Actually, think Thorpe was about 15, he won the 400 worlds in Perth in 98. Anyway, was not him in 98.

 

[blaargh]

I have to say, I believed for a long time that lance was doping - but a few of the conspiracy theories above I just can't buy into.

I don't believe that Cadel dopes- this may be naive, but I trust in his results and his persona. I must say there are a few australian cyclists that I have my doubts about, but he really isn't one of them.

If the australian swimmers are really doping, they aren't doing a good enough job

I think that some of the claims about afl players etc are really out there theories, I just don't think that the motivation or benefits are there. Afl is primarily a skill based, team sport. We have all seen players who can run all day, look like tanks but aren't mentally quick or flexible enough to make it. I guess that is why I think it differs from the purely athletic sports such as cycling/swimming.

 

[blackcat]

I have to say, I believed for a long time that lance was doping - but a few of the conspiracy theories above I just can't buy into.

I don't believe that Cadel dopes- this may be naive, but I trust in his results and his persona. I must say there are a few australian cyclists that I have my doubts about, but he really isn't one of them.

If the australian swimmers are really doping, they aren't doing a good enough job

I take offense to the conspiracy theory euphemism.

ask b0ydman and RussellEbertHandball if I am credible.

I was a gopher go-fer at the Doping conference at the 2010 Cycling Worlds in Geelong. I picked Landis up from Tullamarine airport. I picked Ashenden up from Avalon.

I have spoke to Martin Vinnicombe on the phone. I have had personal message dialogue with the Gary Hall jnr on his website, TheRaceClub, when they had the forum up.

You just display ignorance with this ad hominen as euphemism.

and b0ydman has email correspondence and on friendship terms with Joe Papp

 

[blackcat]

REH,. Blackcat- can I ask what your take on the Joe Papp Race Radio blow up over at CN has been (if you have followed it)?
I am good friend with Joe and not sure whats going on there.
He's an enigma for sure.
Its a deep dirty cesspool that one
b0yd

Boyd, he managed to get RaceRadio's personal information, and he sold it to the lawyer of Armstrong. And he did take money from Lemond saying it was for his former fiancee/wife who was stuck in Cuba (Cuban derrr!), and he just pocketed the money. She is the mother of his child.

Anyway, I do not say my info on Joe is 100% accurate. But please, dont give Joe a heads up about me. thanks.

 

[blackcat]

I bought it at Myer (Westfield Marion) about mid December. A brilliant read in terms of research but saddening to see just how dirty cycling is.

Walsh had Armstrong pegged from the very start and never let up.

it is disappointing that Walsh wont/cant finger Wiggins. cos he comes off as a hypocite now.

I had emails with Walsh, back around 2009, and he agreed that Wiggins was "charging" then.

But Wiggins and British Cycling, their trackies, have NEVER been clean. like ours. NOT CLEAN. So Wiggins was never clean as a pro cyclist. But he definitely was not of the top rung of egregious dopers.

Is Walsh Telegraph or Independent. Whichever, he is with the one News owns. And News owns 38% of Sky. He cant go public on his true opinions of Sky.

 

[blaargh]

I take offense to the conspiracy theory euphemism.

ask b0ydman and RussellEbertHandball if I am credible.

I was a gopher go-fer at the Doping conference at the 2010 Cycling Worlds in Geelong. I picked Landis up from Tullamarine airport. I picked Ashenden up from Avalon.

Just for the record, I meant conspiracy theory to mean exactly what it means - a theory that there is a conspiracy in place. I was not having a go at you personally. I understand there is a stigma around this term, but it is an accurate description.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

...

Is Walsh Telegraph or Independent. Whichever, he is with the one News owns. And News owns 38% of Sky. He cant go public on his true opinions of Sky.

David Walsh is from the Sunday Times - has been there for yonks, prettty sure he was there in 1999 when Armstrong came back. So yeah he is working for Murdoch and News Corp and they have the tie in with Sky who runs Wiggins team.

 

[tribey]

I'm struggling to think of a bigger arseh*le in sport in the 25-odd years I've been consciously following it.

Putting aside the ill-gotten wins and titles, the guy actively bullied, sued and destroyed people who were calling him on it - from the team-masseuse and as it turns out thanks to Lance and his systemic doping operation, international drug-runner, who he publicly denounced as an alcoholic prostitute, to the slew of whistleblowing ex-teammates like Landis, Hamilton and especially Frankie Andreu, who was all but blacklisted from the cycling world on Lance's word.

Using the hundreds of millions his LiveStrong organisation has raised - fame and money only achieved through his post-cancer, dope-fuelled TDF fame - as some sort of realpolitik defence is even more reprehensible.

The guy is a ****ing creep.

 

[blackcat]

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

David Walsh (and I), agrees with you tribey

Walsh has written 3 books (that I'm aware of) about doping in cycling and Armstrong's involvement. They include L.A. Confidentiel: Les secrets de Lance Armstrong - in French only,( to minimise the level of being sued by Armstrong) with L'Equipe journalist Pierre Ballester in 2004. They still got sued and had an out of court settlement in 2006. His second book was From Lance to Landis: Inside the American Doping Controversy at the Tour de France, and a few weeks ago he released Seven Deadly Sins: My Pursuit of Lance Armstrong. Walsh is the English speaking journo that has gone the hardest after Armstrong since his 1999 come back. Walsh didn't believe him in 1999. A few French journo's have been as hard as Walsh.

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2013/01/16/3670435.htm?site=sydney&WT.svl=local0

Sunday Times chief sports writer David Walsh spent 13 years investigating allegations that Lance Armstrong was a drug cheat.

Oprah Winfrey read his book Seven Deadly Sins on the disgraced cyclist in preparation for her much hyped interview which is still yet to go to air.

He told Linda Mottram on 702 Mornings that while Armstrong's cheating was unacceptable it was his bullying of everyone around him that was a worse crime.

"There might be quite a lot of sympathy for him, it could be argued that he was just one of many dopers but he was a particular doper and he did wrongs that were particular to him, that no other sportman did," he says.

Walsh himself experienced the bullying first hand from Armstrong's manager, but he stresses many cyclists had their careers destroyed by Armstrong and his team, which was a far worse consequence.

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2013/01/16/3670435.htm?site=sydney&WT.svl=local0

To listen to yesterday's interview with Linda Mottram;

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/local/sydney/201301/r1059528_12396591.mp3

[If the link doesn't work just cut and paste the URL into your browser]

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

So guys, thoughts on Bradley Wiggins and how easily he destroyed the TDF in 2012?

Vader on the cycling forum refers to the Sky cycling team as UK Postal. I think he has only had one or two people object to this description. I think it is a very fair nickname.