Schapelle

[TheWoodenSlug]

People can absolutely bag the laws of other countries. These countries are completely backwards in their thinking when it come to thing like drugs because they're either poorly educated or have despicable leaders. We can criticise them without being defenders of idiots like Corby. I find it despicable that you can get thrown away in a jail for a decade plus over there for carrying pot on you while over here in our own country you can almost do the same amount of time for some truly horrific acts.

Of course if you're stupid enough to go over to these countries and try to bring in gear than you can't say anything because you knew the risks.

By the way sausageroll I noticed that you liked this post, which is pretty much what I am getting at, so don't think our opinions actually differ that much.

 

[sausageroll]

Homosexuality is punishable by death in Yemen, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan & United Arab Emirates, according to this article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-punished-by-death-2/?utm_term=.4d8abf5ada04

Now can you answer the question? Do homosexuals "deserve to suffer those penalties, no matter what the bleeding hearts think" simply because "it's their right to impose whatever penalties they want"?



I agree with everything you've said here - the gay couple in my hypothetical would be incredibly stupid, as was Corby. But that doesn't make such archaic laws any less reprehensible.

I have NEVER said I don't personally think they're extreme. And I don't find the Corby sentencing reprehensible. Or the Chan and Sukumaran penalties.
Harsh? Yes. Reprehensible? No.

I have said, from the start, that if a person chooses to go to a foreign country and break their laws despite being fully aware of the penalties they are completely responsible for whatever penalty they receive.

So, if a homosexual Australian goes to one of those places and gets caught doing things that carry a severe penalty in that area...
Do I think they deserve it for being gay? No.
Are they completely responsible for their own choice to blatantly disregard the laws in the country they're visiting? Yes.

Those countries don't invite you to break their laws. They set those penalties because they don't want you to break them.
If you choose to break them it's YOUR OWN FAULT when you get caught and face the applicable penalty. Nobody else is responsible.

 

[sausageroll]

By the way sausageroll I noticed that you liked this post, which is pretty much what I am getting at, so don't think our opinions actually differ that much.

That's because that's what I'm saying.

People are responsible for their own actions. It doesn't matter how harsh the penalties seem to be to anyone here in Australia. If people choose to break the laws of the country they're visiting they deserve whatever penalty they receive, no matter how harsh. They still chose to do it, with full knowledge of the extreme penalties they're facing if they get caught.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

That's because that's what I'm saying.

People are responsible for their own actions. It doesn't matter how harsh the penalties seem to be to anyone here in Australia. If people choose to break the laws of the country they're visiting they deserve whatever penalty they receive, no matter how harsh. They still chose to do it, with full knowledge of the extreme penalties they're facing if they get caught.

See this is where you're contradicting yourself - you just said a post earlier that homosexuals don't deserve to be killed in the aforementioned countries.

 

[sausageroll]

See this is where you're contradicting yourself - you just said a post earlier that homosexuals don't deserve to be killed in the aforementioned countries.

I didn't say that. I said I don't personally think they deserve it for being gay.
But if a homosexual Australian chooses to go to one of those countries and break those laws knowing the penalties that they will be facing it's their own fault.

How difficult is that to understand? Seriously?

TheWoodenSlug, if you are a gay person, I seriously plead with you not to go to a country where you may face a horrible, unjustified death by stoning if you're caught performing homosexual acts. Please don't go there. And if you really feel like you must go there, then please refrain from performing homosexual acts while you're enjoying your holiday of a lifetime in Iran, or whichever of those awesome countries you're visiting.
There's nothing more I can do mate. If you chose to ignore this and still insist on going there and breaking their laws, it's totally on you.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

I didn't say that. I said I don't personally think they deserve it for being gay.
But if a homosexual Australian chooses to go to one of those countries and break those laws knowing the penalties that they will be facing it's their own fault.

How difficult is that to understand? Seriously?

TheWoodenSlug, if you are a gay person, I seriously plead with you not to go to a country where you may face a horrible, unjustified death by stoning if you're caught performing homosexual acts. Please don't go there. And if you really feel like you must go there, then please refrain from performing homosexual acts while you're enjoying your holiday of a lifetime in Iran, or whichever of those awesome countries you're visiting.
There's nothing more I can do mate. If you chose to ignore this and still insist on going there and breaking their laws, it's totally on you.

Rest assured, I'm neither gay or have any plans to visit any of those countries. I understand your position perfectly, but I don't think you understand mine - it's quite possible that I haven't explained it clearly enough.

I agree that people have to face the consequences of their own decisions, and have said earlier that such people are stupid to break laws that they know carry severe punishment. What I don't agree with is the assertion that people deserve such punishment. To suggest that they do is tantamount to endorsement (imo) of the many unjust laws that still exist today. It's a small distinction, but an important one I think - how can you say someone deserves a punishment that you think far outweighs the crime committed?

 

[GreyCrow]

- how can you say someone deserves a punishment that you think far outweighs the crime committed?

Because sometimes stupid overcomes compassion

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Because sometimes stupid overcomes compassion

Fair enough. I disagree, but I think you've just very succinctly identified where sausageroll and I disagree

 

[sausageroll]

Rest assured, I'm neither gay or have any plans to visit any of those countries. I understand your position perfectly, but I don't think you understand mine - it's quite possible that I haven't explained it clearly enough.

I agree that people have to face the consequences of their own decisions, and have said earlier that such people are stupid to break laws that they know carry severe punishment. What I don't agree with is the assertion that people deserve such punishment. To suggest that they do is tantamount to endorsement (imo) of the many unjust laws that still exist today. It's a small distinction, but an important one I think - how can you say someone deserves a punishment that you think far outweighs the crime committed?

I really don't know how to respond to this without repeating myself.

You obviously don't understand my position totally otherwise you wouldn't need to ask that question. And if you do actually understand it as you say you do, then we're really just going round and round in circles. You simply don't agree with that aspect of my argument, which is perfectly fine.

The truth is, you can say whatever you want, and you can have whatever opinion you want, but while people continue to decide that the penalties are clearly worth the risk no matter how severe, there will be people facing these penalties all because of their own choices and their own actions.
And they'll have no-one to blame but themselves.

I'll say it again... if the penalties seem extreme then don't choose to break the law.

 

[sausageroll]

Because sometimes stupid overcomes compassion

If stupid is going to another country and breaking the law despite the penalties then I agree.

I have compassion for people who live there face those penalties as a way of life. But if someone from Australia goes there and chooses to deliberately take those laws on then it goes from compassion to responsibility for their own actions.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

I really don't know how to respond to this without repeating myself.

You obviously don't understand my position totally otherwise you wouldn't need to ask that question. And if you do actually understand it as you say you do, then we're really just going round and round in circles. You simply don't agree with that aspect of my argument, which is perfectly fine.

The truth is, you can say whatever you want, and you can have whatever opinion you want, but while people continue to decide that the penalties are clearly worth the risk no matter how severe, there will be people facing these penalties all because of their own choices and their own actions.
And they'll have no-one to blame but themselves.

I'll say it again... if the penalties seem extreme then don't choose to break the law.

It was rhetorical mate, I was explaining my position and my reasoning for it.

 

[sausageroll]

It was rhetorical mate, I was explaining my position and my reasoning for it.

Fair enough. I get your reasoning. And I don't disagree with most of it.

Schapelle has done the crime and done her time. I wish her all the best for the future

 

[rippersnipper]

He shows some damn promise with his verse but I've never been able to figure out who he is. One of the great mysteries.

 

[JoondalupJ]

True. It's a summary of "Schapelle-The Hidden Truth". There is a condensed version titled "Ganja Queen" but it doesn't show the best parts eg Schapelle rehearsing "help me Australia" , Robin Tampoe the lawyer going off about the family, Mcauley the convicted dope dealer/grower when visiting Schapelle says to Mercedes, completely oblivious to the documentary makers that he'll "organise some smoke". Mercedes getting caught in lies eg no one in her family has been caught with drugs then later revealed the old man and brother have drug convictions, Ron Bakir and Tampoe discussing using baggage handlers to shed doubt on her guilt, Bakir screwing up on Australian radio basically saying the Corby camp and legal team had bee approached for bribes to secure her release but then admitting he made up the claims and had to issue a subsequent apology etc.

Just another part of the shamozzle! True or not, who would know.