Scott Welsh - are we moving forward?

[pjcrows]

There is no doubt that the Crows are starting to move foreward and definately look to the future. At the moment, I think Welsh is our 'relaxed' selection as a forward pocket. We seem to have the attitude of 'Ahhh we have Welshy, he's good for a few'. But does he really perform well enough, and consistently? He is a good player, but only scores his 3 or 4 when not being held. He only shows his skills when he is free of his man, which is not very often.

If the Crows are to really move forward, and develop our forward structure for the next 5 or 6 years, we need to act now. Bock or Jericho NEED to playing this year in the forward line, when there is no real pressure to perform at exceptional standard. Or, we will find ourselves needing to use a 20-game player as our key forward when we start to improve.

I feel that we are not moving forward with Welsh as our key crumbing forward. What is more important for us now - Welsh who will kick one goal a game for 10 rounds, or Bock/Jericho who will kick one goal a game for 10 rounds?

Thoughts?

 

[drakeyv2]

I don't think our forward line in round 22 will look much like it did round 1.

 

[pjcrows]

I don't think our forward line in round 22 will look much like it did round 1.

hope so. i hope it looks like:

jericho - perrie - bock
watts - stevens - bode

we'd lose more than we'd win, but will be better for the future.

 

[pext]

I questioned Welshy's ability to play at AFL level earlier this year and got caned. I agree. He's not proven himself to be able to turn a game as a forward. Problem is that Gibbo, Watts, Bock, etc aren't ready for AFL level yet so we are stuck with the old brigade of 'not good enoughs'. Can't wait for Round 1 2006 when we have:

Jericho Rutten Welsh
Hentechel Watts McLeod
....
Johncock McGregor Goodwin
Hart Gibson Bassett

 

[mymansyd]

hope so. i hope it looks like:

jericho - perrie - bock
watts - stevens - bode

we'd lose more than we'd win, but will be better for the future.

errr....we'd lose ALOT more than we'd win with that forward line.

I'm not willing to give up on Jericho, but do you honestly think Bocky will be a long-term AFL player???

Unless he's contracted for next season, I'd say he's looking very shaky.

 

[The Toolman]

People....why are we so quick to jump off a player. Last year Scotty Welsh proved that if we deliver the ball well into the forward line, he will do the job. He started like a train last week and then got smothered out of the game.

He shouldn't be the one who has to fly for the pack mark. And he shouldn't have to contend with the biggest or best defender. One on one with a similarly built player and you'd back Welshy in. The problem is that our other big forwards aren't performing well enough to take the best backmen from the opposition. Therfore Welshy is getting stood by their best. This should mean that Messrs Stevens, Perrie and Hentshel (at least one of them) should be running amok!

And finally, Welsh is a leading full forward. Therefore he needs both room and quality disposal....apart from 10 mins last week, he hasn't been getting it! Mind you I don't think he was at all switched on on Sunday, but let's not write him off.....it was only about 10 games ago where he kicked 15 goals in two matches.

 

[drakeyv2]

People....why are we so quick to jump off a player. Last year Scotty Welsh proved that if we deliver the ball well into the forward line, he will do the job. He started like a train last week and then got smothered out of the game.

He shouldn't be the one who has to fly for the pack mark. And he shouldn't have to contend with the biggest or best defender. One on one with a similarly built player and you'd back Welshy in. The problem is that our other big forwards aren't performing well enough to take the best backmen from the opposition. Therfore Welshy is getting stood by their best. This should mean that Messrs Stevens, Perrie and Hentshel (at least one of them) should be running amok!

And finally, Welsh is a leading full forward. Therefore he needs both room and quality disposal....apart from 10 mins last week, he hasn't been getting it! Mind you I don't think he was at all switched on on Sunday, but let's not write him off.....it was only about 10 games ago where he kicked 15 goals in two matches.

I't got nothing to due with jumping off him. I don't think he is big enough to be an AFL full forward.

 

[baaaallllll]

I't got nothing to due with jumping off him. I don't think he is big enough to be an AFL full forward.

What do you reckon drakeyv2, we should have Meeson down there.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Geez some people jump of quick

Firstly, Welsh is not a crumbing forward. He is a fast leading forward. He also is not the number 1 forward that he is for us. He is best suited as a 3rd tall. He had a stinker against the Pies but he was not the only one and will not be the only one than Jimmy Clements take to the cleaners.

Welshy is by far our best forward and as such he is the first forward picked every week. People also forget that he is only 26 and to say he hasn't turned the game is an absolute crap. His game against Essendon the other year in the wet was inspirational.

People are so bloody quick to jump of players after a couple of average games and that gives me the ********s.

 

[baaaallllll]

Geez some people jump of quick

Firstly, Welsh is not a crumbing forward. He is a fast leading forward. He also is not the number 1 forward that he is for us. He is best suited as a 3rd tall. He had a stinker against the Pies but he was not the only one and will not be the only one than Jimmy Clements take to the cleaners.

Welshy is by far our best forward and as such he is the first forward picked every week. People also forget that he is only 26 and to say he hasn't turned the game is an absolute crap. His game against Essendon the other year in the wet was inspirational.

People are so bloody quick to jump of players after a couple of average games and that gives me the ********s.

Agree with all of what you just said but....... he did have a shocker on the weekend, hopefully he will just get a bit of a ribbing from his mates and kick a bag next week.

 

[outback jack]

Geez some people jump of quick

Firstly, Welsh is not a crumbing forward. He is a fast leading forward. He also is not the number 1 forward that he is for us. He is best suited as a 3rd tall. He had a stinker against the Pies but he was not the only one and will not be the only one than Jimmy Clements take to the cleaners.

Welshy is by far our best forward and as such he is the first forward picked every week. People also forget that he is only 26 and to say he hasn't turned the game is an absolute crap. His game against Essendon the other year in the wet was inspirational.

People are so bloody quick to jump of players after a couple of average games and that gives me the ********s.

welshy is one dimensional forward, who is unable or chooses not to do proper weight work, hence lacks that body strength and has missed his chance. Does not perform unless he is the FF, and if they are quicker than him he's stuffed. Playing one good game against essendon not last yr but the yr before, is not good enough. You forget to add that it was w.carey who gave him the supply ripping fletcher to bts.

He is not always first picked, in fact early last yr was struggling to get a place. He is picked now, cause we literally have no one to come in.

You show far too much faith in the welsh, ladhams, bode types, who play 5 mins of good football when it suits them, and the first two have questionable work ethics.

 

[Bockchoy67]

Surely you people jest?

Welsh was our leading goal-kicker in 2004, and is one the very few in that team who can kick large bags of goals, offer great pressure during the opposition rebounds, and most importantly, win a game.

Yes, he played terribly against Collingwood, but geez, that's no reason to send him back to the SANFL. He's arguably our best forward on paper, is young, quick, agile, a great mark and good (albeit at times shaky) in front of goals.

There's a lot, lot, lot worse (talent?) going around the AFC right now than Scotty Welsh.

 

[outback jack]

I questioned Welshy's ability to play at AFL level earlier this year and got caned. I agree. He's not proven himself to be able to turn a game as a forward. Problem is that Gibbo, Watts, Bock, etc aren't ready for AFL level yet so we are stuck with the old brigade of 'not good enoughs'. Can't wait for Round 1 2006 when we have:

Jericho Rutten Welsh
Hentechel Watts McLeod
....
Johncock McGregor Goodwin
Hart Gibson Bassett

yep i supported ya, he isnt the future. But is the best we have. Our structure looks bad when hes a focal point. He can kick a bag though, you're a little off on that bit. Problem is he has to be the focal point to kick a bag, i cant remember him playing well with a CHF, FF and then him as the third forward, which u'd think would suit him.

 

[zajicrow]

Tis laughable how so many jump off him after one bad game.

Tis pathetic actually. He kicked 43% of the teams goals in round 1, was the clubs leading goalkicker last year and that was with injury, has proven that with proper delivery and the right frame of mind he can kick huge bags, and is usually very accurate.

 

[jo172]

Geez some people jump of quick

Firstly, Welsh is not a crumbing forward. He is a fast leading forward. He also is not the number 1 forward that he is for us. He is best suited as a 3rd tall. He had a stinker against the Pies but he was not the only one and will not be the only one than Jimmy Clements take to the cleaners.

Welshy is by far our best forward and as such he is the first forward picked every week. People also forget that he is only 26 and to say he hasn't turned the game is an absolute crap. His game against Essendon the other year in the wet was inspirational.

People are so bloody quick to jump of players after a couple of average games and that gives me the ********s.

Completely Correct. Right now is the Crows best forward and you think he will remain so for another 2-3 seasons.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

People....why are we so quick to jump off a player. Last year Scotty Welsh proved that if we deliver the ball well into the forward line, he will do the job. He started like a train last week and then got smothered out of the game.

He shouldn't be the one who has to fly for the pack mark. And he shouldn't have to contend with the biggest or best defender. One on one with a similarly built player and you'd back Welshy in. The problem is that our other big forwards aren't performing well enough to take the best backmen from the opposition. Therfore Welshy is getting stood by their best. This should mean that Messrs Stevens, Perrie and Hentshel (at least one of them) should be running amok!

And finally, Welsh is a leading full forward. Therefore he needs both room and quality disposal....apart from 10 mins last week, he hasn't been getting it! Mind you I don't think he was at all switched on on Sunday, but let's not write him off.....it was only about 10 games ago where he kicked 15 goals in two matches.

Excellent post

Don't think I can dad anymore but to totally support your views.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Excellent post

Don't think I can dad anymore but to totally support your views.

still wondering who's your daddy????

 

[WaynesWorld19]

still wondering who's your daddy????

 

[tribey]

Agree with Stiffy and The Toolman.

Yeah Welshy had a shocker last week (and after the first 7 minutes against West Coast too) but the way the ball is coming in does him no favours - what's more, he's not a focal point. He is best suited to being the third option behind the standard KPPs, where he can take the opposition's third defender (or a stopgap like Chick) to the cleaners.

Because he is being blanketed his confidence is suffering, as evidenced by his visible frustration when he was bodied out and led to the ball in one-on-one contests with James Clement, who people seem to forget is a reigning All-Australian.

Welsh's current predicament is a classic case of a quality small-tall (or vice versa) being repeatedly asked to fill in as a focal point because he's the only prolific option. Sure he might kick a bag or prove a matchwinner every now and then, he might even string together a run of decent returns like he did last year, but that sort of form can't last when you're regularly standing the opposition's best defender, with little support from teammates both standing beside you and further up the ground.

The frustrating thing for all concerned is, Welshy is it. He's not keeping the seat warm until a Jonathan Brown, Matthew Lloyd or Nick Riewoldt comes back. He's not toiling manfully until a Chris Tarrant, Fraser Gehrig or Barry Hall can find some form. He's it, and unfortunately, the strain of being forced to act as tip of the spear for well over a season now is starting to show.

The poor bastard is like the Sixth Army encircled at Stalingrad. And unfortunately Field Marshals Freddy von Krueger and Mega Von Watts might not breakthrough to relieve him in time. History repeats.

 

[macca23]

Agree with Stiffy and The Toolman.

Yeah Welshy had a shocker last week (and after the first 7 minutes against West Coast too) but the way the ball is coming in does him no favours - what's more, he's not a focal point. He is best suited to being the third option behind the standard KPPs, where he can take the opposition's third defender (or a stopgap like Chick) to the cleaners.

Because he is being blanketed his confidence is suffering, as evidenced by his visible frustration when he was bodied out and led to the ball in one-on-one contests with James Clement, who people seem to forget is a reigning All-Australian.

Welsh's current predicament is a classic case of a quality small-tall (or vice versa) being repeatedly asked to fill in as a focal point because he's the only prolific option. Sure he might kick a bag or prove a matchwinner every now and then, he might even string together a run of decent returns like he did last year, but that sort of form can't last when you're regularly standing the opposition's best defender, with little support from teammates both standing beside you and further up the ground.

The frustrating thing for all concerned is, Welshy is it. He's not keeping the seat warm until a Jonathan Brown, Matthew Lloyd or Nick Riewoldt comes back. He's not toiling manfully until a Chris Tarrant, Fraser Gehrig or Barry Hall can find some form. He's it, and unfortunately, the strain of being forced to act as tip of the spear for well over a season now is starting to show.

The poor bastard is like the Sixth Army encircled at Stalingrad. And unfortunately Field Marshals Freddy von Krueger and Mega Von Watts might not breakthrough to relieve him in time. History repeats.

Sad but true.

Stevens is not helping either with 2 p*ss-poor games after only spasmodic guest appearances in the last 2 years. He's just not there at the moment.

This is the game where if Clarke is available, we'll have to play 3 ruckmen, with a Bigland and a Hudson sharing FF duties to provide some distraction away from Welsh.

At this stage we don't even have a Damon White in the cupboard to pull out.

 

[bigman]

I will create a new thread about one thing that worried me on Sunday - the unwillingness of the coaching staff to play only one attacker in front of goals - having two just did not work.

Bottom line here - Welshy had a stinker but he had a lot of mates who hardly touched the ball - Skippy, Biglands, Doughty, Shirley, Bode (except for last quarter) etc.

 

[- PC -]

*oops missed DTs excellent post


I am not a fan off Welsh and have said so previously. I think his problem is he feels he is Full Forward when in actual fact he has the body and skill of a Forward Pocket.

He has been thrown into a position he cant play.So I will concede if we had a FF like hmmm Carey , Welsh would attract the second or third best defender and have more freedom..how many did he kick in the last 2 years?And to break it down can someone spend the time and see how many goals he kicked with Carey in the side?

 

[pjcrows]

im not 'juming off cos of one bad game'. yes, i know welsh has kicked our goals in the past but we need to move on... we need to have a hard couple of years and develop our OWN NEW FORWARD LINE. we need to move on from 2002/2003. we do not need scott welsh in our team. he is not vital to our attack. he gets towelled up by the good defenders - why not have bocky or jericho out there getting towelled up but gaining valuable game time? we've seen what has happened when we throw 10-game players into it and expect them to set the world on fire. we need 2 years to develop a team that, by 2007/2008, will have ten 60+ game players.

 

[drakeyv2]

Completely Correct. Right now is the Crows best forward and you think he will remain so for another 2-3 seasons.

I agree he is currently our best forward. I hope like hell we have someone else down there after 3 seasons!

He simply isn't big enough to be a AFL FF.

 

[drakeyv2]

What do you reckon drakeyv2, we should have Meeson down there.

He wouldn't have done any worse than Stevens or Welsh & might have learnt a few things as well