Second worst list in the comp.

[Goldust]

Yeh bullshit. Yes you can tell if a kid will be Elite early on, but that doesn't mean if they don't look like it that they cant become elite.

Not every elite player looked like it from year 1 or 2 or 3.
Some players just go far beyond what anyone expected.
If it was always so obvious you wouldnt have Dane Swan going at #58 or Hird at #79.

A Hird type who played at Ainslie in the ACT would be on the radar of all clubs now and wouldn't go at #79. Such are the networks clubs have. They were primitive back then.
I can tell you now, Rioli looks like being elite - yes he may not, but has the tools. Markov shapes as being good. Menadue too if he puts on some beef - if he doesn't he'll be injured every other week. I'll say with certainty Butler doesn't make it and I doubt Castagna gets past 40 games with Broad on his way back to WA within two years.

 

[Tiger2709]

Absolutely no chance in hell we play finals in the next 3 - 4 years. It will take at least 7 - 8 years to tidy this mess up. Unfortunately the club has no patience with rebuilds so we'll just try and bring in mediocre mature age players to remain "competitive".

I think you may be plucking numbers out of thin air, no reason for a full rebuild to take more than 3 or 4 years at most, if done right, of course all clubs need some luck as well and unfortunately that is not something Richmond has had a lot of in recent decades.

 

[Tiger2709]

just a question on GWS , did all the other clubs agree to all the picks etc they were to get when entering the comp or was the AFL dictatorship saying this is what they get ?

Does anyone actually get to vote on the next great thing from the brain farts at AFL HQ, or do they just tell the clubs who and what they will vote for?

 

[Tiger2709]

Our best 22 is better than theirs (just), but their list is healthier. Cripps, Docherty, C. Curnow, Silvagni, Weitering, McKay etc. are so much better than our youth.

Maybe a little case of the grass is always greener on the other side, for me Carlton's list is a disaster, they were only playing 2 or 3 under 20's for most of the year, with more than half the team being over 27, they fooled their supporters into thinking they are on the right track, but they are at least as bad as we were back at the start of our rebuild.

 

[Tiges1229]

Does anyone actually get to vote on the next great thing from the brain farts at AFL HQ, or do they just tell the clubs who and what they will vote for?

Well i actually thought the clubs had to agree to a new expansion club coming etc etc , maybe I'm wrong but thats why i was asking.

 

[Rimmer]

Those who only delight in putting us down are as always full of shit, the glass is always half empty for some blokes. If our list is no good then 16 other clubs not winning premierships also have rubbish lists.

We pulled up stumps early when we could not make the finals, we dropped guys who were better than guys we brought into the side ... had we fought out the last 5 rounds we would have rolled StKilda and Geelong and finished on 10 - 12 and in 9th or 10 position. Its only 2 wins less than we had to make the finals in 2014. We should have beaten the Dogs, we should have beaten Collingwood first time around .. bingo we are 8th or 9th.

Our list is not crap, we just didnt win games we should have early and we didnt enter games late in the season trying to actually contest to win.

Our 5 guns are as good as any in the comp. I don't need to name them.

Vlaustin, edwards, houli, hampson, Grigg, Astbury, Grimes, Miles, B Ellis are good mid range players, a few of them still will get better with experience.

Conca has plenty of talent the guy just has dodgy hamstrings, Ceril had dodgy hamstrings and someone at Hawthorn taught him how to change his running style and he has not missed hardly a game since. We should sign Conca for another year, it either fails and he moves on or he finally gets a full season and we have either a keeper or someone of value for trade.

Griffith continues to improve, now he plays one good game in 5 instead of one a season. We keep him, 2 meter guys take time to develop, he can mark and he kicks like a mule, best long kick we have had since Dick Clay.

Yarran will be a gun for us, Prestia too will give us a huge boost. Rioli could be anything, the guy was a fringe player up Ballarat way 2 years ago, one super season got him drafted, this season we have seen flashes of magic which suggest he might end up as good as his uncle.

Lambert showed enough to suggest he too might end up a good player, McIntosh was exceptional last year, injured all this year, back in 2017.

Taylor Hunt is a role player and he plays his role very well, he will never be an A grader but is more than useful and can shut down a key player when needed.

Sam Lloyd has surprised me, I really did think he was just a filler while we looked for the King replacement. He is constantly improving.

Markov, C Ellis and Menedue have shown plenty during this year.

If Lennon wants to go let him, this is the second year he has thrown a wobbly because he is not getting as many games as he thinks he deserves, the club comes above the player and we can do without sooks who are a negative influence around the club.

Vickery can play, he kicks goals, he is deadly accurate, he can mark, he is actually professional unlike Lennon, he takes it on the chin when he has to and works on improving. I would not just give him away, with good delivery he could kick 100 goals in a season .. can we ever give him that good delivery? I don't know ... for me if he wants to stay he is in his prime for a 2 meter player, if he is ever going to be really good it will be in the next 3 years, whether it is with us or elsewhere. He should be exploring options, as should we, but in the end if nobody is interested I would sign him up too for another 12 months.

The young guys need time ... a few mentioned elsewhere in this post are important to our future.

Those who have been with us 3 years and have not yet broken into the seniors, if they do not have something special to justify being here then its time to move them on.

A little bit of luck and determination and we would have had 12 wins in a year where our bad has been very very bad.

2017 is going to be awsome for us imo

 

[brahj]

Thank **** OP doesn't work in list management.

 

[austyn08]

I think you may be plucking numbers out of thin air, no reason for a full rebuild to take more than 3 or 4 years at most, if done right, of course all clubs need some luck as well and unfortunately that is not something Richmond has had a lot of in recent decades.

Extending Hardwick for two more years and leaving FJ in control of drafting constitutes us not having luck?
That is management dealing with blind faith and a cop out we are comfortable with.

 

[smurfin]

I'm sure its been asked many times before, but who is our 6th best player? (Was Maric 2 years ago)
It should be Vickery or Griffiths or Edwards or Conca.
In reality it is probably Grigg, Houli or Miles - basically other clubs discards.
Who is striving to work on their weaknesses and improve themselves to get to that top level?
Likewise, many people have a go at Cotchin - shouldn't be captain.
Who else looks like they want it?
Maybe Jack but he still cracks the sooks occasionally and I'm not convinced. Does Rance want it? Dusty?
It feels to me like there is a void of leadership aspiration and desire to make it to elite level. Why? FIIK.

 

[Spagman]

I think Vickery has been given enough chances based on any supposed potential that he has. If he goes to the Hawks and tears it up and kicks 80 goals, so be it. RFC clearly don't have the ability to develop him into a lethal forward or anything else right now and that's not going to improve for years.

 

[Tiger2709]

Extending Hardwick for two more years and leaving FJ in control of drafting constitutes us not having luck?
That is management dealing with blind faith and a cop out we are comfortable with.

Where did I say that?
I said all teams need some luck to win a flag what I meant by us not having luck is we recruited a number of players over the years to help build the club and many of them have then had long term injuries etc.

 

[mopsy]

Maybe a little case of the grass is always greener on the other side, for me Carlton's list is a disaster, they were only playing 2 or 3 under 20's for most of the year, with more than half the team being over 27, they fooled their supporters into thinking they are on the right track, but they are at least as bad as we were back at the start of our rebuild.

Yet many people would say their list is no worse than ours now. what would that make our list if true.

 

[mopsy]

KPF - Riewoldt, Griffiths, Elton Chol It is scary poor without Riewoldt.
KPD - Rance, Astbury. just one of quality, and one who we really should be looking to do better than. it is in a very bad place
Third tall DEF.- Grimes. yet he does not often play on tall players in effect we dont have one when he plays small.
Third tall Fwd - C Moore and he is a rookie.
Rucks - Hampson, Soldo. one is a bloke totally lacking in many areas the other a long shot project player.Wont include Ivan i think he will retire.There is serious need for better.

As far as tall positional players go it would be the worst group of talls in the comp. Out side of just two players there is a serious lack of quality and numbers.

Will put in TALL running players and flankers
McIntosh could become a viable third tall if developed in that way.
Broad a state league level running defender.
Grigg a soft outside mid.

I will do a similar exercise for the other positions but if we do not have the 2nd worst over all list in the comp we certainly do not have a list that is any better than middling at best.
It may not need a total rebuild but it sure as hell needs something close to a huge overhaul .

 

[tugga]

With Hardwick at the helm and Jackson in charge of this year's draft, we could easily finish 18th next year.

 

[Tiges1229]

With Hardwick at the helm and Jackson in charge of this year's draft, we could easily finish 18th next year.

Im dreading 2017 . I even get annoyed now when i hear Hardwick speak lol

 

[tugga]

Im dreading 2017 . I even get annoyed now when i hear Hardwick speak lol

Well Brisbane will get Christensen and Dane beams back and have gotten games into Schace and Andrews and with a decent midfield, they could easily finish above us.

 

[Tiges1229]

Well Brisbane will get Christensen and Dane beams back and have gotten games into Schace and Andrews and with a decent midfield, they could easily finish above us.

Im picking us def bottom 4. My bottom 4 next year are in no particular order are .

Tigers
Lions
Scum
Collingwood

 

[Moody Blue]

With Hardwick at the helm and Jackson in charge of this year's draft, we could easily finish 18th next year.

Gale should be throwing everything at Neil Balme to return to the club. Collingwood have back doored him twice. Get him and you will get back on track.

 

[Tiges1229]

Gale should be throwing everything at Neil Balme to return to the club. Collingwood have back doored him twice. Get him and you will get back on track.

That is the most logical thing and smart thing to do, therefore it won't happen .

 

[Tiger2709]

Yet many people would say their list is no worse than ours now. what would that make our list if true.

We have a number more A graders and as many promising juniors as Carlton, we have the basics to get back to finals in not to long a time. If we make the right moves at the draft/trade table I would think we can be back in the finals by 2018, lets not totally forget many on our list are only mid 20's and they were able to win 15 games last year, our early injuries and loss of Yarran for the year had a big affect on the way we played this season, losing our whole hb line caused much of the horrible sideways football we played and robbed us of the opportunity to use Vlas in the middle, not sure if Dimma is up to changing things mid season so that is another issue.

We are not nearly as bad as the Swans game would indicate, but we need to recruit a lot better than we have in the past.

 

[Spagman]

Im dreading 2017 . I even get annoyed now when i hear Hardwick speak lol

I think the club is oblivous to just how little trust the supporters have in Hardwick now.

 

[Tiges1229]

I think the club is oblivous to just how little trust the supporters have in Hardwick now.

Yep its very disappointing thats for sure.

 

[Sassafras]

Probably been said a billion times, but main cinvpcern isn't who has been drafted or on the list, it's how they have been developed. It wouldn't surprise me if had we drafted Danger, Fyfe, Wines, Heppell, Bont etc they would be in the same position Conca and Lennon are in at the moment.