Serious Forward-Line Thread

[cats2rise]

Now people. plese do not turn this into a bagging Kent or playfair thread.

Instead of:

HF: Chap Playfair SJ
FF: GAJ Otto KK

How about:
HF: Chap McCarthy SJ
FF: GAJ Otto Mooney

Otto would still swap with rucking duties, and Mackie etc would then go forward.

I think Mooney has alot to offer to our forward line if settled there. I am aware he re-invented himself down back and through the midfield, but this year i think we need targets up forward to keep the needed goals. Thoughts?

Also, i think McCarthy needs to be tried as an option. Playfair hasnt been playing that bad, but maybe chuck McCarthy up there for a month and see if we get better results.

 

[Kegs44]

Kinglsey must go, and give McCarthey a go, he culdnt do ne worse. I also agree that Mooney should be up there, very gud player and one thing you know about Mooney is that he will also go in hard non stop, and he'll create something

 

[Kent_Kingsley]

Mooney's been tried and tested as a key forward and he failed.

id take Nablett over McCarthy

the 'brilliant' SJ gives me the s

 

[cats2rise]

Mooney's been tried and tested as a key forward and he failed.

id take Nablett over McCarthy

the 'brilliant' SJ gives me the s

I wouldn't.
SJ does that to ya lol

 

[chapmanmagic35]

I don't think McCarthy is the answer. Even if it means persisting with what we have currently.

 

[cats2rise]

I don't think McCarthy is the answer. Even if it means persisting with what we have currently.

Why though?
Matt has been injured, and fromwhat I have heard he is able bodied for AFL and goes in hard. Thats what we are missing isnt it?

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Why though?
Matt has been injured, and fromwhat I have heard he is able bodied for AFL and goes in hard. Thats what we are missing isnt it?

He is still woeful kicking for goal....

 

[carn_the_cattas]

I heard somewhere (tv or radio) that Bomber should try Egan up forward, good overhead.
We'll need Harley for that to work tho.

 

[TGTOA]

Does anyone know how Todd Grima is travelling. I know it would take a long term injury for us to be able to play him, but would he be a viable option if that were to happen?

 

[Partridge]

I wouldn't.
SJ does that to ya lol

Sorry I can't laugh at the moment. Nothing about Geelong is remotely funny, except if I heard that Kingsley broke his leg. To cover the forward options:

Playfair: I would retain him. At least he presents up the ground and tries to offer something.
Nathan Ablett: Put him in the goalsquare and leave him there. At least when he goes for a mark he'll bust a pack. Can actually mark overhead (rare for a Geelong forward) and can kick. Unlike our current fullforward.
Kingsley: Drop him forever. Cannot mark overhead, will not mark in front of his body, will not take responsibility for kicking goals. Weak, soft and pathetic.
McCarthy: Does bust a pack, good mark, but cannot kick at all. Leave him in the seconds.
Steve Johnson: Drop indefinitely. Super talented, but far, far too lazy and unmotivated. Will never make himself into the player he could be.

 

[nananana catman]

It is quite sad that the most important position on the ground is continually filled by one of our worst players.

 

[kriso182]

Nathan Ablett: Put him in the goalsquare and leave him there. At least when he goes for a mark he'll bust a pack. Can actually mark overhead (rare for a Geelong forward) and can kick. Unlike our current fullforward.

ditto! Vary rare for a Geelong forward. Get him in the side.

 

[9 Lives]

What about Charlie Gardiner? The guy just needs a chance. Playing him one week then dropping him the next is doing nothing for his confidence. He knows he is playing for his life each time he is in the seniors, so he probably feels he is under too much pressure. The coaching staff should just say- right Charlie, you're in the side for say the next 5 games guaranteed (no matter what), show us what you can do.

WHat does everyone else think?

 

[Partridge]

What about Charlie Gardiner? The guy just needs a chance. Playing him one week then dropping him the next is doing nothing for his confidence. He knows he is playing for his life each time he is in the seniors, so he probably feels he is under too much pressure. The coaching staff should just say- right Charlie, you're in the side for say the next 5 games guaranteed (no matter what), show us what you can do.

WHat does everyone else think?

Fair enough to mention him, but seriously he's had his chances. He's played 49 games, now in his 5th season, and really hasn't come close to cementing a senior spot. He's just not good enough, simple as that. If he'd played 10 games I'd agree, but not the opportunities he's already had and wasted.

 

[tusk]

What about Charlie Gardiner? The guy just needs a chance. Playing him one week then dropping him the next is doing nothing for his confidence. He knows he is playing for his life each time he is in the seniors, so he probably feels he is under too much pressure. The coaching staff should just say- right Charlie, you're in the side for say the next 5 games guaranteed (no matter what), show us what you can do.

WHat does everyone else think?

We don't need or want him anywhere on the ground. As it is we have enough passengers on this list and although at times it appears that he is busting a gut it all counts for zip if he can't hold his feet, mark or dish off to a player in the hoops.........he is a dud and should have been dropped at the end of last season. If he is still at the GFC in season 07 it will say alot about the coaching staff.

 

[nananana catman]

What about Charlie Gardiner? The guy just needs a chance. Playing him one week then dropping him the next is doing nothing for his confidence.

Needs a chance, this guy is the king of chances!!!

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Lonergan?

 

[SJ]

Lonergan?

• Lonergan = dud. Delisted at the end of the season.
• Gardiner = dud. Delisted at the end of the season.
• Kingsley - I think he has been poor, but I don't bag him the way the rest of you do. To tell you the truth, the delivery and game-plan has been worse than Kingsley's form. We know he's an on-the-lead forward, yet we kick it over his head every week. Possibly dropped to the 2s.
• Playfair - keep him in. Has been injured, but straightened us up last year. Need to get him right. Needs to throw his big frame around.
• Ottens - looked like a brontosaurus chasing after Kellaway (who cant be quick too) on Saturday. Only possibly value now is played from the goalsquare - will take the best defender every week and in a 1-on-1 situation may be able to kick 3 per week. Again, needs to throw his big frame around. If I was 202 and 106, I'd be breaking every pack and contest I could. Goes to ground way too often - on the ground, out of the contest. Seems to have a text-book goalkicking action, but for very poor results. That leaves the ruck free - Peter Street doesn't look too bad now does he?
• N Ablett - might as well play him for the rest of the season. Will have some quiet days, but haven't Kingsley, Ottens and playfair had a quiet 7 weeks? Raw, but got in the best last season. Play him.
• Mackie - impresses me, to be honest. Seems to be a footballer, rather than an athlete. Has played some important cameos in the past, needs to put on a kilo or two. Can take a mark. Can kick a goal. Play him.
• McCarthy - has been desperately unlucky with injuries. Kicked 7 or so in the 2s last year, and broke his arm the week after. Came into the senior side and was injured again straight away. Played well in 2003 (remember the wet Melbourne game at the G, and the West Coast draw at Skilled?). Unlike Playfair and Ottens, puts his body on the line. Busts a pack open. Can't kick, but no one we have can (Playfair, Kingsley, Ottens, Gardiner, Lonergan). May have improved.

This leaves:
OTTENS (last chance)
KINGSLEY (possibly drop, then last chance)
PLAYFAIR (play him)
MACKIE (keep playing him - best still to come)
N ABLETT (ditto)
McCARTHY (deserves another go, has a crack)
LONERGAN (final season)
GARDINER (final season)

Problems Galore.

 

[Turbocat]

It is quite sad that the most important position on the ground is continually filled by one of our worst players.

This is an astute observation Nana. IMO, in an ideal world I suppose our best 6 should be three mids, two key talls and our ruck. How do you think we match that.

I say the three mids ,1 Key Tall yes probably
1 key tall and the ruck NO.

It really points to what we should be focusing on the rest of this year. Do we have any key talls/ruckmen that have the attributes to be our best players in years to come.

Nathan would have to be our best forward chance Id say but will he ever be in our best 6. Maybe on talent but if leadership is also part of CHF then i'm not sure he will ever be in our best 6.To me, from outside , he is not hardwired to ever handle the pressure of carring a side ahla JohnoBrown , maybe wrong(I hope so).He will produce quality, maybe not quanity.

Blake and West, does anyone who ahs seen more of them than me think these guys are capable of being in the best at our club , let alone the league. I have been on this horse for ages, we MUST have more than 2 suspect ruckmen and 2 unproven ruckmen on our list.Rookies,Draft , I dont care but we simply must start planning to support Blake or we will be condemed to repeat the mistakes of King.Surely one of our key talls could make way for another ruck. Maybe to aviod having too many kids we could find a kid thats 22/23, can jump and was missed and give him a chance.

We have heaps of talls but I say we really do need to add to the quality of the talls on our list.

The wraps on Hawkins are good but if we could add another of the fantastic talls that seem to be around this year we could really be setup to match any club for tall talent by 07/08. We may finally have a chance to have one of our best players in the most important position

 

[Turbocat]

OTTENS (last chance)
KINGSLEY (possibly drop, then last chance)
PLAYFAIR (play him)
MACKIE (keep playing him - best still to come)
N ABLETT (ditto)
McCARTHY (deserves another go, has a crack)
LONERGAN (final season)
GARDINER (final season)
Problems Galore.

OTTENS, last chance?.Gees some people are tough. Just who would have been contesting the ruck without him in the side, seeing how our captain is like a Hummer that never gets out of the garage.

KK, he is what he is. Why blame a rover for not being a ruckmen.Its time to try him elsewhere because if you play in the square you just cant be a one trick pony, essp these days. He is quicker than some think, can he play further up the field? Has he ever played on the backline? He is mates with Scarlett and its worked before , with Hinkley. Harley looks like he is damaged goods so lets just try something.

PLAYFAIR, he need fitness but he can play a role

MACKIE, does this kid know what a gym smells like? I think its time for the Hingus solution , 18 months out the game and comes back with arms built like Arnies.

NATHAN , he also needs time in the gym but his future is in his own hands

McCARTHY , poor mans Richo. Sure try him but just like KK , I think we are condeming ourselves to disapointment, just howmant shots at goal will he miss

LONERS/CG , you may well be right but lets hope they can find a way to raise their performance levels, otherwize its just such a waste

 

[9 Lives]

I really think our problem is psychological.

At the start of the season- when we were up and flying- everyone was talking about our depth and how strong our list was. 2 months later, we're a weak and useless team again. You don't lose your talent, skill or ability overnight. Somehow we just need to regain our confidence back- how we do that is the million dollar question.

Remain loyal guys- we are not a carlton!

 

[shahla_selena]

i say bring in nablett and see what he can do. put gaz in the forward line with him as they seem to work well together. he's the best option at the moment i feel, more useful than gardiner, lonergan, mccarthy and most of the others mentioned. i know hes still raw, and we really desperately need a real proper key forward, hbut he's the best we've got for now.

 

[captain dewy]

IMO start of the year was young fast guys, now it's old slow guys "stars" apparently! The young guys won buy being relentless with tackling chasing, sheperds etc, forward line defensive pressure was fantastic to watch, pressure pressue all the time. I have looked closley at this single point all season and the win / loss ratio coincedently mirrors the lack of chasing etc when we loose. Sure there have been a lot of turnovers, poor descisions, behinds etc. but if you do any of thoses things recently it appears to mean "gee i stuffed up i am sooo dissapointed, i give up, i won't catch him anyway...".
The worst offenders seem to be the names most often complained about on this site and in the forward line, and it doesn't include (Ablett and Chapman).

From a business point of view these things are easier, motivate, work closley with staff, promote achievements, then if it doesn't work make changes, if that doen't work, time for change (management or staff).

I i was paying a "goal kicker" to kick goals and he can't, i think the answer is easy!

I am sick of seeing whimpy efforts of overhead marking by our talls, heads down, not really going for it, maybe they need to get a Reiwoldt / J Brown tape and watch "how to", really basic stuff.

Time for ego's to exit.

Cameron Mooney for CHF same as Browny, Hall etc. somebody to run hard, can take a grab, chases, tackles and doesn't take any (without suspension of coarse)!

 

[worthogs]

You lot have very short memories

Nathan isnt ready yet..Anyone remember that Bulldogs game...the one where the opposition didnt have anyone over 5 foot on the ground. he couldnt get a kick couldnt run and Lonners was about the only worse one out there.

I rate the kid as a future player but nowhere near ready yet. Especially if our midfield is shot and we dont have any other functioning forwards. He is not ready to be our #1 forward and get the best defender each week. 2007 yes now will only ruin him.

As a radical plan put McCarthy in if he fups well he can be shipped on next year.
Put Linga up there with him. Gets him out of the midfield and can take a mark.
We have to try different things to get the upper hand against WCE otherwise its goodbye 2006 hello top 5 draft pick.

 

[ezbian]

This is an astute observation Nana. IMO, in an ideal world I suppose our best 6 should be three mids, two key talls and our ruck. How do you think we match that.

I say the three mids ,1 Key Tall yes probably
1 key tall and the ruck NO.

It really points to what we should be focusing on the rest of this year. Do we have any key talls/ruckmen that have the attributes to be our best players in years to come.

Nathan would have to be our best forward chance Id say but will he ever be in our best 6. Maybe on talent but if leadership is also part of CHF then i'm not sure he will ever be in our best 6.To me, from outside , he is not hardwired to ever handle the pressure of carring a side ahla JohnoBrown , maybe wrong(I hope so).He will produce quality, maybe not quanity.

Blake and West, does anyone who ahs seen more of them than me think these guys are capable of being in the best at our club , let alone the league. I have been on this horse for ages, we MUST have more than 2 suspect ruckmen and 2 unproven ruckmen on our list.Rookies,Draft , I dont care but we simply must start planning to support Blake or we will be condemed to repeat the mistakes of King.Surely one of our key talls could make way for another ruck. Maybe to aviod having too many kids we could find a kid thats 22/23, can jump and was missed and give him a chance.

We have heaps of talls but I say we really do need to add to the quality of the talls on our list.

The wraps on Hawkins are good but if we could add another of the fantastic talls that seem to be around this year we could really be setup to match any club for tall talent by 07/08. We may finally have a chance to have one of our best players in the most important position

Very interesting thoughts Turbo. I am interested to get your rationale behind the ideal world? And who you thought the best 6 for the last 5 premiership sides were? Just wanted to understand more about where you are coming from before I make any comment.

On Nathan I think you have hit the mark to some degree. I certainly think in years to come he will be rated amongst our best half a doz for talent, but if this includes leadership etc (which I don't think matters so much depending on how good you are, others can take that burden for you) he won't be included. He is a shy, recluse boy, and I can't see that changing. Watching him on Sunday a few spot fires broke out here and there. He was certainly in the vicinity of some of those but he just went about his business. Wasn't interested in supporting a team mate or trying to break any of them up. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this, he is just a very different kettle of fish.

Making judgement calls on ruckman is so very difficult. Generally thy are so underdeveloped and raw it is always just a chance of being pure luck. Look at Cox and Sandilands. It would hvae been very difficult to pick those two becoming what they have. Cox apparently kicked it like James Mason two years ago. West is athletic and might become a footballer. Blake is raw, has a couple of attributes and very good pedigree. Who knows?

On hawkins I think the forward plan needs to be Nath developed to become FF and Hawkins for CHF. Although some of the wraps suggest he may become a ruckman, particularly given his current height and capacity to grow further. Either way I hope we are on to something special. If we do finish in the bottom half a dozen and we can get another decent tall we should take him. Midfielders are a dime a dozen. Hall, Tredea, Brown don't grow on trees!