Shane Kersten

[Beanstalk]

Josh Walker at AFL level in 2013: 2.1 @ 66.7% from 3 games.

 

[hbk_aus]

Anybody remember how bad a kick Stewart Loewe was at the start of his career? Heard the stories about Enright's atrocious kicking skills when he arrived at the club?
Walker gets marked very roughly by some on here - he is a 20 year kid playing key forward for gods sake and has been very good at VFL level. May I suggest far better at that age than the likes of Lonergan?

 

[Beanstalk]

Anybody remember how bad a kick Stewart Loewe was at the start of his career? Heard the stories about Enright's atrocious kicking skills when he arrived at the club?
Walker gets marked very roughly by some on here - he is a 20 year kid playing key forward for gods sake and has been very good at VFL level. May I suggest far better at that age than the likes of Lonergan?

Not trying to bash walker here- (I save that for more relevant threads), just comparing him to Kersten.

 

[Whit3y]

this big dick kersten guy we are all talking about sounds like the next ablett snr. as i havent heard of him or seem him play before im assuming his of the 30-50 game region ready to take the next step to becoming ablett.

 

[AM]

Josh Walker at AFL level in 2013: 2.1 @ 66.7% from 3 games.

Thanks for that. The sample (number of games) is too low to be meaningful really. Nonetheless, surprised me Josh's AFL accuracy is better than VFL. I obviously placed way too much significance on his impressive early twos GF performance.

Off topic. Just had a gander at some stats myself. Was surprised to see Hawk's accuracy was quite good given the pounding he sometimes gets here for his inaccuracy.

 

[AM]

this big dick kersten guy we are all talking about sounds like the next ablett snr. as i havent heard of him or seem him play before im assuming his of the 30-50 game region ready to take the next step to becoming ablett.

Whoa! No one is suggesting anything like that.

 

[GeelongFTW]

Thanks for that. The sample (number of games) is too low to be meaningful really. Nonetheless, surprised me Josh's AFL accuracy is better than VFL. I obviously placed way too much significance on his impressive early twos GF performance.

Off topic. Just had a gander at some stats myself. Was surprised Hawk's was quite good given the pounding he sometimes gets here for his inaccuracy.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/tom-hawkins-goal-kicking.1008366/

 

[GeelongFTW]

this big dick kersten guy we are all talking about sounds like the next ablett snr. as i havent heard of him or seem him play before im assuming his of the 30-50 game region ready to take the next step to becoming ablett.

you've been posting a lot of shit lately. lay off it.

 

[AM]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/tom-hawkins-goal-kicking.1008366/

Thanks FTW. His accuracy actually dropped away as the season progressed. Still good mind you. Let's blame the back.

 

[vinum coupe]

Wouldn't underestimate the adverse affect elite level exposure can mentally have on set shot goal shooting. Many players have been able to kick with accuracy at lesser level but haven't been able to produce the same high standard on the big stage.

A case in point has been Walker - so far. In the twos GF he looked composed and confident and the ball came off his boot sweetly. Hasn't been able to replicate that at AFL level so far.

Mate, I've only seen 2 games live at the VFL

And every time Walker kicked it I thought he was about to produce a helicopter.
He is our worst listed kick in a long, long time.

But that's actually not my knock on him.

 

[vinum coupe]

Josh Walker at AFL level in 2013: 2.1 @ 66.7% from 3 games.

Obviously dont count out on the full then.

 

[AM]

Mate, I've only seen 2 games live at the VFL

And every time Walker kicked it I thought he was about to produce a helicopter.
He is our worst listed kick in a long, long time.

But that's actually not my knock on him.

Agree his disposal has been an issue. That's why I was so impressed by his twos GF effort. Particularly early on. Actually looked the only AFL level player in the hoops during that time.

Has a way to go but he gives me the impression he is really keen to succeed and will put in the necessary work to correct his deficiencies. He's only 21 and has a bit of mongrel which I love.

 

[vinum coupe]

Agree his disposal has been an issue. That's why I was so impressed by his twos GF effort. Particularly early on. Actually looked the only AFL level player in the hoops during that time.

Has a way to go but he gives me the impression he is really keen to succeed and will put in the necessary work to correct his deficiencies. He's only 21 and has a bit of mongrel which I love.

I didn't see the GF.

But what worries me is his ability to lead up, mark, and then hit a target.
Something that Hawk and Pods are good at.

And there's 2 reasons for that.
1/ I think he takes way too long to pick a target
2/ His kicking

And if you're going to be a guy that 'sometimes' takes a while to pick a target you'd want to be damn good at hitting it.

Kersten on the other hand is the complete opposite.
Has a good turning circle, makes quick decisions, and hits targets.

The only thing they both have in common (IMO) is that they get their goals too close to goal at VFL level.

 

[AM]

I didn't see the GF.

But what worries me is his ability to lead up, mark, and then hit a target.
Something that Hawk and Pods are good at.

And there's 2 reasons for that.
1/ I think he takes way too long to pick a target
2/ His kicking

And if you're going to be a guy that 'sometimes' takes a while to pick a target you'd want to be damn good at hitting it.

Kersten on the other hand is the complete opposite.
Has a good turning circle, makes quick decisions, and hits targets.

The only thing they both have in common (IMO) is that they get their goals too close to goal at VFL level.

I agree that Kersto looks the better of the two at present for the reasons you mention. He's also quick for a 191cm player, has the flexibility to play in a variety of positions, is good in 50/50 contests, and has the capacity to influence a game.

As a Kersto fan I thought he was very disappointing when it counted in the twos GF. Players can have days when things don't go their way but effort is a non negotiable and I thought that essential ingredient was missing on the day.

As you know Kersto and Walker are quite different propositions. I'm keen for Walker to succeed because we'll need him as a power forward. We can't rely on Vards and Hawk alone particularly due to their injury issues and it appears Brown is destined for the back half - regrettably.

You are spot-on that Walker has deficiencies but most are correctable if he works at it in my view. As I said, he's only 21 and he showed in the twos GF he can take a contested grab, read the play and kick accurately. Only one game admittedly.

 

[hbk_aus]

I would like to see what u think if you watched the VFL granny VC, because only one out of Kersten and Walker put their hand up and had a crack when the chips were down.

I honestly don't know what we expect from a 20 year old key position player - Hawkins was talked up as top 5 draft pick quality yet even he didn't become a solid contributor until he was about 23. Lonergan took longer, even taking into account his injury. Even Bartel was playing 2's football at 19/20 years old.

 

[vinum coupe]

I would like to see what u think if you watched the VFL granny VC, because only one out of Kersten and Walker put their hand up and had a crack when the chips were down.

I honestly don't know what we expect from a 20 year old key position player - Hawkins was talked up as top 5 draft pick quality yet even he didn't become a solid contributor until he was about 23. Lonergan took longer, even taking into account his injury. Even Bartel was playing 2's football at 19/20 years old.

Skills?
At any level. Skills. Development I will live with.

In the vid Bobby posted he probably looked the quickest chasing the ball up the wing. And Clark got him. He cant turn.
And in my opinion, that's a skill.

Also was given the ball late in that vid to have a snap, no awareness to take a step what so ever.
Another skill.

He has to be considered AFL grade because he was a rookie, played top level, and got elevated.
But I cant agree on the decision.

What I can agree on is that he is better than a pick 70ish this year.

 

[kicksome]

Read somewhere that Kersten had kicked 79.25 over two years, so it's no fluke season.

I haven't seen enough of him to tell, but I just hope he has more tricks than lead, mark, kick goal. Because at his size he probably won't get as many opportunities to do that at AFL level as he does in the VFL.

I also worry a tad that he doesn't suit Geelong's long kicking to the forward line style. Granted, that has been centred around Hawkins and Pods but it will at least take some time to adjust things to suit other players we rotate through their who aren't as aerially masterful as Pods and rely on more precise kicking to the lead.

Still, very happy to have two or three very decent key forward prospects fighting for a spot in the ones. It's a healthy place to be post-Pods.

jason dunstall didnt haha

 

[Partridge]

That said, kicking them in an AFL game at SS in front of 30,000 or the 'G' in front of 80,000 is way different to doing it at VFL level in front of 1000. I'm a rap for Kersto as most here know and I'm confident that given game time he'll prove to be a very effective forward for us. But let's wait and see how he handles the additional pressure that comes with AFL level footy.

That's correct, but the thing he has over Walker is a far better technique. He's easily a better kick, and I'm more confident of adapting to the increasing pressure than both the pressure and trying to mechanically correct a poor technique.

 

[dazbroncos]

Agreed with ye ole partridge on this one. Kersten has a beautifully fluid and smooth kicking style that from the outside seems second nature - as he results seem to reflect this. Walker seems more to thinking about it rather than just doing it - not dissimilar to the golfer whom checks his different steps off a list before hitting.

Both can be effective but at this point I'd take Kersten as the better option kicking for goal.

It's probably not convention but I could see Walks playing up the ground at chf and Kersten playing at ff or a pocket and leading to space. Could be very dangerous combo going forward..

Go Catters

 

[hbk_aus]

Skills?
At any level. Skills. Development I will live with.

In the vid Bobby posted he probably looked the quickest chasing the ball up the wing. And Clark got him. He cant turn.
And in my opinion, that's a skill.

Also was given the ball late in that vid to have a snap, no awareness to take a step what so ever.
Another skill.

He has to be considered AFL grade because he was a rookie, played top level, and got elevated.
But I cant agree on the decision.

What I can agree on is that he is better than a pick 70ish this year.

You seem want your 20 year old Key Position Prospect to be able to have midfield type skills it seems. Thats fine, thats your prerogative. I want mine to be showing improvement, promise and delivering consistent performances and kicking plenty of goals at VFL level. SO far he has outperformed my initial expectations.
I think you are picking apart tiny little instances where he has ****ed up. I could give you clips of every single player on our list doing identical things to that at some stage. As i said, u seem to want him to have the skills of a midfielder, the vision and awareness of a veteran and the agility of someone like Smedts. He isnt any of that. But he is a very young KPP who has at times dominated the VFL and clearly done enough to impress better footy minds than mine or yours.

 

[Partridge]

I would like to see what u think if you watched the VFL granny VC, because only one out of Kersten and Walker put their hand up and had a crack when the chips were down.

I honestly don't know what we expect from a 20 year old key position player - Hawkins was talked up as top 5 draft pick quality yet even he didn't become a solid contributor until he was about 23. Lonergan took longer, even taking into account his injury. Even Bartel was playing 2's football at 19/20 years old.

I suspect the argument is about a different thing. Yes the age is absolutely accurate in terms of giving a player a reasonable amount of time. But if it's about actual skills then it's a fair assessment. Hawkins might have taken as long as he did to come good, but he was always a better kick than Walker. I'm not sure if Walker will become a better kick than him but he definitely needs to improve it - over and above showing he actually belongs at the top level in the first place.

 

[hbk_aus]

I suspect the argument is about a different thing. Yes the age is absolutely accurate in terms of giving a player a reasonable amount of time. But if it's about actual skills then it's a fair assessment. Hawkins might have taken as long as he did to come good, but he was always a better kick than Walker. I'm not sure if Walker will become a better kick than him but he definitely needs to improve it - over and above showing he actually belongs at the top level in the first place.

I have no beef with criticising Walker's kicking, its clearly the area he most needs to work on. I think VC was basically writing Walker off as not good enough and shouldnt have been elevated. I think it's far too early for that given what he has shown before the age of 21.

 

[Partridge]

I have no beef with criticising Walker's kicking, its clearly the area he most needs to work on. I think VC was basically writing Walker off as not good enough and shouldnt have been elevated. I think it's far too early for that given what he has shown before the age of 21.

Yep, and given how long plenty of others take that's reasonable. You certainly can't claim that guys like Brown need more time and Walker doesn't when both have played almost the same number of games.

If anyone can accurately predict the Round 1 lineup they should seriously get a prize. Going to be so tough to pick the spots.

 

[vinum coupe]

I have no beef with criticising Walker's kicking, its clearly the area he most needs to work on. I think VC was basically writing Walker off as not good enough and shouldnt have been elevated. I think it's far too early for that given what he has shown before the age of 21.

I don't know about writing him off........
Can be interpreted any way I guess.

I'm not going to turn into a Meto over Walker. I'm not going to scream at the TV whenever he makes a mistake. The club's had 3 years to look at him. If they think he can develop then fair enough.

I think Walker is basically a bigger bodied Kingsley. I didn't mind Kent, but I don't think he'd get in our side.

Leads like Kent, runs like Kent.
Moves sideways like Kent, lacks lateral vision like Kent, and has the turning circle of the queen mary just like......you guessed it........Kent.


So good luck to him for getting elevated, I hope he goes on to develop into a player.

 

[hbk_aus]

I don't know about writing him off........
Can be interpreted any way I guess.

I'm not going to turn into a Meto over Walker. I'm not going to scream at the TV whenever he makes a mistake. The club's had 3 years to look at him. If they think he can develop then fair enough.

I think Walker is basically a bigger bodied Kingsley. I didn't mind Kent, but I don't think he'd get in our side.

Leads like Kent, runs like Kent.
Moves sideways like Kent, lacks lateral vision like Kent, and has the turning circle of the queen mary just like......you guessed it........Kent.


So good luck to him for getting elevated, I hope he goes on to develop into a player.

I think you should turn into Meto - you can never have enough meto's...or sons.