Shane Warne replicators, where are they?

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Not sure about limited overs having a negative impact.

Twenty20 sees more overs of spin if anything. Two dayers the stock standard ring field with the battery of medium pacers waiting for batter error.

Ultimately captains/clubs decide who bowls. Whether it's two day, one day or T20 if clubs want young spinners to get overs, then bowl them. There are no excuses.

I think in all formats captains are too eager to go with the safe medium pace option.

 

[Smoooothy]

Warnie immitator checking in

my stupid cricket club never let me get above b grade. held me back from my inevitable national call up sadly

 

[Cooldude]

I heard a spin bowling coach talk about this the other day.

His theory was that Warne's style worked for him because he was a physical freak.

He walked in a few steps and then let rip. Fearsome revs, dip, drift but also some decent speed on the ball. A person with a normal build without the super strong wrists, or Warne's explosiveness walks in and tries to bowl in the same way... loopy moon balls.

Kids get away with it at junior level. Loopy moon balls get wickets aplenty.

They get up to seniors though and their deliveries don't have the shape or energy on them to compete against batters who can use their feet. They get found out and belted out of the attack. For them to bowl at the required speed, they have to sacrifice revs.

They get stuck between bowling fast skidders that stop them being belted out of the attack but they lose the spin/drift that will get them wickets... or loopy slow breaks that spin plenty but any decent batter can destroy if the length is even slightly off.

So we've had a generation of kids trying to copy Warne but without the physical traits to pull it off.

Pretty much this, I'd prefer kids to try to replicate Macgill's run up than Warnie's, you'll end up hurting yourself bowling like Warnie and most times you'd be bowling pies

 

[copthat]

The problem with all spinners and limited overs is generally trying to take wickets comes second to keeping the runs down. They are being used less and less as an attacking option and more as a bowler who can get through their 10 without much fuss. Xavier Doherty isn't there to rip through a line up, he's there because he bowls one side of the wicket and is tough to get away. Because all the pathways specialise in limited overs cricket then attacking wrist spinners who go for a few runs are scarce, and so there is a rise in finger spinners who bowl darts.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

It doesn't help when captains (usually batsmen) set some absolutely woeful fields for you. Two out on the leg side, deep cover and mid on/off halfway is what I've had to deal with throughout the years. You can't bowl to that.

 

[Damon_3388]

It doesn't help when captains (usually batsmen) set some absolutely woeful fields for you. Two out on the leg side, deep cover and mid on/off halfway is what I've had to deal with throughout the years. You can't bowl to that.

Can't suggest some field changes to them?

 

[Damon_3388]

BTW, where are the Michael Jordan replicators? Didn't everyone want to "be like Mike"?

Much harder than it looks...

 

[Mateyman]

Another Warnie imitator checking in. Whenever, I tried to bowl legspin, my junior coach told me to just bowl on the spot slow/medium with no spin and focus on spin later...but this doesn't really work when it's completely different mechanics.

 

[Zach Package]

Another Warnie imitator checking in. Whenever, I tried to bowl legspin, my junior coach told me to just bowl on the spot slow/medium with no spin and focus on spin later...but this doesn't really work when it's completely different mechanics.

your junior coach is a ****.

Spin the thing as hard as you can, as often as you can, worry about where it goes later IMO

 

[Bucking Beads]

your junior coach is a ****.

Spin the thing as hard as you can, as often as you can, worry about where it goes later IMO

Pretty much. Just gotta land the stock ball consistently then worry about the rest. Give it a rip.

 

[gbatman]

1. Warne's technique doesn't suite many, right down to the switching of the ball from one hand to the other in his run up. I think a lot of young bowlers may have tried to copy him rather than finding their own action. Always thought McGill's technique was a little user friendly.

2. Captains/clubs/teams won't give them a go. From the Aus cricket team who didn't take any of the good young leggies to the UAE to state teams like Victoria who play Jon Holland over Muirhead.

3. wrist spin is hard to bowl and requires more training, there's a lot you can do in your technique that can cause it all to stuff up and it can be hard to identify. It's a hell of a lot easier to bowl medium pace or fingerspin.

4. There are good quality wrist spinners around, why don't they get played or given the same license to fail (as a finger spinner) is beyond me.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

2. Captains/clubs/teams won't give them a go. From the Aus cricket team who didn't take any of the good young leggies to the UAE to state teams like Victoria who play Jon Holland over Muirhead.

When I was a lad, many years ago, I could bowl left arm chinaman spinners and I did it well. I could really get the ball to rip, got good loop and bounce, and had a nice flipper, although nowhere near as good as Warnie, his flipper was fuller length and totally devastating. Looking back, I honestly think I had the tools to go further if my bowling was developed, but it wasn't.

In my mid-late teens the Lillee-Thomson era began to take effect and pace bowlers were getting all the bowling. Much easier for impatient captains to blast away with quicks than have the patience and understanding to bowl spinners. I could score runs, so that kept me in the team, but bowling was my passion. In the end I said stuff this and began bowling left arm quickies just so I could get a bowl. It was pointless being a spinner.

I would have hoped that with the outstanding successes of Warne and MacGill, things may have changed, but it still seems at lower levels the pacers get most of the bowling and the spinners are brought on as a last resort. This doesn't help spinners to develop their craft.

Time and again I sit back and watch batsmen with "stand and deliver" techniques belt the pacers around. It's obvious they have no footwork, and the reason they open is because they can only play pace, and yet do captains swing the spinners in early? Nope, they wait until the shine start disappearing and as a last resort in comes the poor old spinner.

The bottom line is, most captains are lazy and have no idea how to use spinners as attacking weapons. Watching Johnson and Harris last summer was great to see, but I fear it put the spinners' movement back 10 years.

 

[Cole Dammett]

In my experience with school and juniors club cricket I always remember spinners being decidedly average, it just wasn't worth the risk to bowl a spinner. I've never saw anyone even be coached at training on spin, it was always about bowling mediums etc, sometimes at the end of the session for a bit of a laugh everyone would try out their spin technique. More emphasis on improvement from the age of 10+ is required, rather than just being discounted as expensive trash which most junior level spin is tbh.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Warne timeline to start his career.

Debut 1992: 1/150 against India @SCG
0/78 in the 4th test
Overall figures for the series 1/228
Dropped for the 5th test.

Sri Lanka in Colombo
0/107
3/11 second innings

Basically if Warne had started his career these days he probably wouldnt get the opportunity to become the bowler he did as he would of gotten banished after the first test where he looked hopeless and got destroyed by Ravi Shastri.

 

[The_Reaper]

Warne timeline to start his career.

Debut 1992: 1/150 against India @SCG
0/78 in the 4th test
Overall figures for the series 1/228
Dropped for the 5th test.

Sri Lanka in Colombo
0/107
3/11 second innings

Basically if Warne had started his career these days he probably wouldnt get the opportunity to become the bowler he did as he would of gotten banished after the first test where he looked hopeless and got destroyed by Ravi Shastri.

Not convinced - Doherty made a comeback

 

[Zach Package]

another sob story from the weekend. Bowled one over (with a wet soapcake of a ball), landed the first 5, beat the bat twice and had an LBW shout turned down, 5th ball of the over he gave me the charge and heaved me back over cow corner for 6. And that was it for the rest of the day...because we needed to tie them down apparently.

Sadly I feel i'm not alone and neither is my skipper in regards to using their leggies.

 

[TheFrenchCut]

another sob story from the weekend. Bowled one over (with a wet soapcake of a ball), landed the first 5, beat the bat twice and had an LBW shout turned down, 5th ball of the over he gave me the charge and heaved me back over cow corner for 6. And that was it for the rest of the day...because we needed to tie them down apparently.

Sadly I feel i'm not alone and neither is my skipper in regards to using their leggies.

The emphasis on restricting batsmen to get wickets at the moment, at the same time of the emergence of T20 cricket is mind-boggling. When a batsman attacks, he is bringing the opposition into the game. A lot of pace bowlers of at the moment are fairly inadequate because all they do is bowl safe, short of a length. Though he has his fans, Ben Cutting is one such example. New ball bowlers will always have a far greater chance of getting a wicket if they hit a fuller length.

The leg spinners are there (Muirhead, Zampa & Boyce to name a few) they just have to be persisted with and coached properly. Seriously, if someone has a leg spinner in their team because they want him to hold down an end, they're an idiot.

 

[gbatman]

another sob story from the weekend. Bowled one over (with a wet soapcake of a ball), landed the first 5, beat the bat twice and had an LBW shout turned down, 5th ball of the over he gave me the charge and heaved me back over cow corner for 6. And that was it for the rest of the day...because we needed to tie them down apparently.

Sadly I feel i'm not alone and neither is my skipper in regards to using their leggies.

Happens a lot, leaving it too late to bowl spinners is another captain's crime. If you have a good spinner, bowl them no later than 5th change, ideally 4, not when the game is gone or going, give them a chance to bowl a team out. It's the way that spinners get hit for runs as you mentioned, a medium pacer can get worked around for 1s, 2s and 3s and go for 5+ an over but a spinner can get hit for a boundary and they have to come off. A lot of captains are also afraid to bowl spinners at sloggers, being a spinner myself I prefer to bowl to someone who thinks (and more than likely can) hit you out of the ground and tries to, any decent spinner who is bowling well can get them out. It's so easy to bowl a heap of medium pacers who can land it on a spot and forget the spinner. The spinner needs to come on early to bowl a team out and try and win the game, not because you have run out of bowlers and not to tie up the runs.

 

[getthefooty]

Happens a lot, leaving it too late to bowl spinners is another captain's crime. If you have a good spinner, bowl them no later than 5th change, ideally 4, not when the game is gone or going, give them a chance to bowl a team out.

5th change is way too late, really. That's pretty much resorting to the last bowler you have.

I always try and bring on my spinners 1st or 2nd change, especially if an opener is still in and doing ok. If wickets are tumbling then they might not get a go until a bit later, but they often work well at cleaning up the tail too.

 

[Seagrave_Holmes]

Taking replication to a whole new level.

 

[Freak Dodgeball Accident]

Yep, another Warne clone here. Even had the identical run up. I could rip it a fair way, had a great wrong-un and after a couple warm-ups I had a good line and length and took a lot of wickets... This is at training, mind you.

On game day, it's like the pitches we played on were 2 foot thinner than our pitches in the nets. Every ground was like this, so when it came to my spell, I didn't have the confidence that I'd land a leggie so I just resorted to bowling offies all day (which weren't too bad).

But these pitches were bullshit. So thin that you'd be lucky to land one on the actual pitch, and if you did get any decent turn, it'd end up going for a wide anyway. These were all the concrete pitches with the roll out mats. The only time I got to shine was when we played a team in a practice match on turf. Got some really good figures and the turn was amazing. Even though the pitch was maybe just over a foot wider, it was enough to give you the confidence that you'd land one. Nothing worse than starting a new spell and having the first couple land on the grass.

 

[gbatman]

5th change is way too late, really. That's pretty much resorting to the last bowler you have.

I always try and bring on my spinners 1st or 2nd change, especially if an opener is still in and doing ok. If wickets are tumbling then they might not get a go until a bit later, but they often work well at cleaning up the tail too.

not really, depends the length of the bowlers spell spell, 4th change is ideal but that depends on things as well, I play a lot of 40 over cricket and feel just before the 20th over is the time to come on which can be 4th or 5th change.

 

[getthefooty]

not really, depends the length of the bowlers spell spell, 4th change is ideal but that depends on things as well, I play a lot of 40 over cricket and feel just before the 20th over is the time to come on which can be 4th or 5th change.

Really? 5 bowlers have bowled before the 20th over and there's still time to bring on another one for a couple of overs?

Obviously it depends a lot on the situation and the type of bowler. In a 40 over game, if it's an economical off spinner then I wouldn't be opposed to him opening or coming on very early. Leggies are tougher, probably just before the 20th is about right but I don't see how 5 other bowlers have bowled by then!

In an 80 over game I'm definitely not opposed to a leggie coming on 1st or 2nd change, especially if a wicket is needed. At some point during the innings they should be left to settle into a long spell.

 

[gbatman]

Really? 5 bowlers have bowled before the 20th over and there's still time to bring on another one for a couple of overs?

Obviously it depends a lot on the situation and the type of bowler. In a 40 over game, if it's an economical off spinner then I wouldn't be opposed to him opening or coming on very early. Leggies are tougher, probably just before the 20th is about right but I don't see how 5 other bowlers have bowled by then!

In an 80 over game I'm definitely not opposed to a leggie coming on 1st or 2nd change, especially if a wicket is needed. At some point during the innings they should be left to settle into a long spell.

if you bowl 5th, 4 bowlers have bowled before, if they are all working on 5 over spells, well you do the math. 80 over game, coming on about the 20th over, probably means they are coming more like 2nd change which is about right for a good wicket taking spin bowler.

Really you work with what you've got.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

The progress in the standard of cricket bat, as well as bringing in boundaries don't help spinners in any way either. Batsmen mistime sixes these days.