Shape up or ship out

[CaptainDangerfield]

As much as I am looking forward to watching the continued development
of our young talent in 2005, I am also looking forward to seeing how our “iffy”
players respond to the threat of delisting.

Let’s say all contracts were expiring at the end of 2005, who do you consider would have to perform in 2005 or face the chop? Here’s my list.

Begley – If he has another year of injuries he should be delisted,
Bode - Will get more opportunities in 2005, should be no chance of delisting,
Bock – Tries hard but is out of his depth, delist,
Burton – If he has another year like 2004 he should be delisted, then a public hanging,
Doughty – 2005 will be similar to 2002, will not be delisted,
Ladhams – Would have to do something very special not to be delisted,
Massie – Would have to do something very special not to be delisted,
Schuie – More game time in 2005, shouldn’t be delisted
Skipwoth – IMO an unknown.
Shirley – Tries hard but is out of his depth, delist.
Smith – If he doesn’t make an impact in 2005, should be delisted.
S Stevens – Needs to toughen up in 2005, if not, delist.


Thoughts…

 

[lacrow]

Dude, some of those are pretty harsh, but here's my list:

Begley – Looked really good last year until injury hit. Mark my words, Begley will be one of our top players next year. He's got size, ability, etc.
Bode - Good at getting the hard ball and IMHO should be played in a pocket 'cause he seems to kick a lot of goals when moved up there.
Bock – Weak, but hopefully will improve. If not, trade.
Burton – Too good to delist, but a liability at times. If played in the proper spot (FF) then he's no chance of being delisted
Doughty – I agree
Ladhams – Needs a change of attitude, has all the attributes. If not, delist.
Massie – A great depth player who gives 100% all the time. Keep for depth.
Schuie – Agree.
Skipwoth – Showed flashes, IMHO (although I know I'm in the minority). Give him more p/t to show us yeah or nay.
Shirley – Weak
Smith – Haven't seen him play, so...????
S Stevens – Again, when played in the right position - i.e. half-forward flank, far-enough away from goals that he doesn't have to attempt them (still having nightmares from that) - and could be pretty handy. Keep for depth at least.

 

[Crowked]

Yep agree on all counts, add Torney, Mattner & Perrie though.

 

[Riddler]

As much as I am looking forward to watching the continued development
of our young talent in 2005, I am also looking forward to seeing how our “iffy”
players respond to the threat of delisting.

Let’s say all contracts were expiring at the end of 2005, who do you consider would have to perform in 2005 or face the chop? Here’s my list.

Begley – If he has another year of injuries he should be delisted,
Bode - Will get more opportunities in 2005, should be no chance of delisting,
Bock – Tries hard but is out of his depth, delist,
Burton – If he has another year like 2004 he should be delisted, then a public hanging,
Doughty – 2005 will be similar to 2002, will not be delisted,
Ladhams – Would have to do something very special not to be delisted,
Massie – Would have to do something very special not to be delisted,
Schuie – More game time in 2005, shouldn’t be delisted
Skipwoth – IMO an unknown.
Shirley – Tries hard but is out of his depth, delist.
Smith – If he doesn’t make an impact in 2005, should be delisted.
S Stevens – Needs to toughen up in 2005, if not, delist.


Thoughts…

Begley - Good Player. Will be a very good & solid player for years to come. Do not Delist
Bode - Agreed. Don't Delist
Bock - Agreed. Delist (AFC rate him highly I haven't seen anything to get me excited)
Burton - Needs to play up Forward. Won't be delisted if anything Traded.
Doughty - Agreed. Don't Delist
Ladhams - Will need to win the B&F to not be Delisted
Massie - Same as Ladhams
Shuie - Agreed. Do not Delist
Skippy - Same as Ladhams & Massie
Shirley - Agreed. Delist
Smith - Delist (Still don't know how he got a gig & Parker got the chop)
S.Stevens - Not a KPP but your right gotta get tough if not Delist

 

[Riddler]

Yep agree on all counts, add Torney, Mattner & Perrie though.

Torney is an awesome player didn't get the oppurtunities under Ayers. Definately should be a permanent member of our back 6.

Agree on Mattner & Perrie

 

[Fudd]

As much as I am looking forward to watching the continued development
of our young talent in 2005, I am also looking forward to seeing how our “iffy”
players respond to the threat of delisting.

Let’s say all contracts were expiring at the end of 2005, who do you consider would have to perform in 2005 or face the chop? Here’s my list.

Begley – If he has another year of injuries he should be delisted,
Bode - Will get more opportunities in 2005, should be no chance of delisting,
Bock – Tries hard but is out of his depth, delist,
Burton – If he has another year like 2004 he should be delisted, then a public hanging,
Doughty – 2005 will be similar to 2002, will not be delisted,
Ladhams – Would have to do something very special not to be delisted,
Massie – Would have to do something very special not to be delisted,
Schuie – More game time in 2005, shouldn’t be delisted
Skipwoth – IMO an unknown.
Shirley – Tries hard but is out of his depth, delist.
Smith – If he doesn’t make an impact in 2005, should be delisted.
S Stevens – Needs to toughen up in 2005, if not, delist.


Thoughts…

Begley – Harsh call because i think he is very good player, but i guess if he cant play again next year then he would have to be looked at.
Bode - Not a chance of being delisted if he is given a game. Cant even believe people have been talking about Bodey in such terms. Need someone to fly the Bays flag!
Burton – I doubt we would delist him but he could find himself up for trade. Can be VERY damaging on his day, for and against us ofcourse.
Doughty – Im not a Doughty hater. Return to 2002 form ,he'll be sweet.
Ladhams – Super talented, just needs to work harder at AFL level. Could be traded.
Massie – First half of 2004, he was one of our best. love his hardness. Make or break year for him. Need his toughness tho.
Schuie – Agree, more game time needed. Think he could be delisted tho.
Skipwoth – Keeps his late 2004 form, and hes a keeper for mine.
Shirley – Ive got a soft spot for Robbie. Trys hard and does a good job when given a task. Probably be delisted once another tagger is found as he generally doesnt get enough of the ball himself.
Smith – Agree, has had enough time. Not his fault but AFC should have tried him out at the end of 2004 to see how he would make the grade. Still suprised he was kept over Parker. I heard Parker has a bad attitude, could that have been the difference?
S Stevens – I like him. Good skills for a big man, great mark, not a bad thinker. just needs to work harder and impose himself more. bulk up aswell.
Bock - I just dont see why everyone gets the knickers in a not about him. I saw enough promising things from him in his first season of playing AFL, and i couldnt give a rats about how he played in the SANFL grand final. Good mark, got a bit of dash for a big guy. Personally id give him more time. Isnt a key position player, more of a tall HBF like Mcphee i think.

Notice you didnt mention Perrie? For me he is in the same boat as shirley. As soon as we have someone better to take over he should be gone unless he can have a consistent 2005. The only reason he is still on the list is because we have SFA in ready made key position forwards, especialy with Stevens no certainty to continue. if it werent for his late season form and lack of anyone else he would have been delisted this year. Fantastic work ethic and mark, but decision making and footy brain doesnt appear to be running at the required level.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Yep agree on all counts, add Torney, Mattner & Perrie though.

Thorney must be in our starting 22 IMO. Adds much needed grunt..

By the way, does that Avatar also come in John Howard.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Begley – Harsh call because i think he is very good player, but i guess if he cant play again next year then he would have to be looked at.
Bode - Not a chance of being delisted if he is given a game. Cant even believe people have been talking about Bodey in such terms. Need someone to fly the Bays flag!
Burton – I doubt we would delist him but he could find himself up for trade. Can be VERY damaging on his day, for and against us ofcourse.
Doughty – Im not a Doughty hater. Return to 2002 form ,he'll be sweet.
Ladhams – Super talented, just needs to work harder at AFL level. Could be traded.
Massie – First half of 2004, he was one of our best. love his hardness. Make or break year for him. Need his toughness tho.
Schuie – Agree, more game time needed. Think he could be delisted tho.
Skipwoth – Keeps his late 2004 form, and hes a keeper for mine.
Shirley – Ive got a soft spot for Robbie. Trys hard and does a good job when given a task. Probably be delisted once another tagger is found as he generally doesnt get enough of the ball himself.
Smith – Agree, has had enough time. Not his fault but AFC should have tried him out at the end of 2004 to see how he would make the grade. Still suprised he was kept over Parker. I heard Parker has a bad attitude, could that have been the difference?
S Stevens – I like him. Good skills for a big man, great mark, not a bad thinker. just needs to work harder and impose himself more. bulk up aswell.
Bock - I just dont see why everyone gets the knickers in a not about him. I saw enough promising things from him in his first season of playing AFL, and i couldnt give a rats about how he played in the SANFL grand final. Good mark, got a bit of dash for a big guy. Personally id give him more time. Isnt a key position player, more of a tall HBF like Mcphee i think.

Notice you didnt mention Perrie? For me he is in the same boat as shirley. As soon as we have someone better to take over he should be gone unless he can have a consistent 2005. The only reason he is still on the list is because we have SFA in ready made key position forwards, especialy with Stevens no certainty to continue. if it werent for his late season form and lack of anyone else he would have been delisted this year. Fantastic work ethic and mark, but decision making and footy brain doesnt appear to be running at the required level.

Yeah your right, I could have included Perrie and probably another 6 but I didn't want to seem too harsh.

 

[Mad Dog]

Begley – IMO full of talent and leadership material - but yes his injuries are a concern. I'd give him every opportunity to get over his OP
Bode - I've got him on the bench in my best side....Edwards, Reilly, Roo, Goody, Stiffy, Macca, Thommo are in front of him - so he may need to be an impact player from the bench - but would be a starter if 1 of the above is injured. Always been a Bodey fan but 53 games out of a possible 94 in 4 years is dampening my enthusiasm.
Bock – I fear another year developing in the SANFL will not change my mind about the "#44 Special Fried Rice with Bok Choy".....I hope I'm wrong but we may need to package him up with other players come trade time next year.
Burton – I'm just not a Burton fan - I would have traded him this year contract permitting. His skills and disposal brain just have not and will not get any better. I'd have him at FF if Squelshy is unavailable - other than that...pass.
Doughty – I am not a Doughty fan either....I've seen Irish Setters that are more composed under pressure..he has already peaked in 2002 as a footballer - he is now 26..........as the Soup Nazi would say.......NEXT !!!
Ladhams – depth player till end of 2005
Massie – depth player - a very handy one IMO
Schuie – ?????? - I have no idea to be honest !
Skipworth – Bench player - he showed some glimpses this year after 4 years - could share the pinch-hitter role with Bode.
Shirley – depth player till end of 2005
Smith – how long does it take to play a game of football - especially with our list lately ????...don't know - some pretty loyal Sturt supporters tell me he is a bit of a receiver .
S Stevens – depth player till end of 2005
J Torney - see Massie

IMO there aren't too many who are untouchables
Roo/Trent/Kenny/Benny/Reilly/Edwards/Fergus/Stiffy
(Truck is nearly in this catagory)
the rest are on notice IMO

 

[Stiffy_18]

Begley - A real talent who copped OP last year. If he overcomes that he is a player. Either out of BP, HBF or wing he can be a very good player. I expect him to play like he did before injury this year.
Bode - Bode will show all the doubters that he is a good player. Give him game time and decent opportunity and he will not disappoint.
Bock - meh
Burton - has another 2 years on his contract. No chance of getting delisted. He is a keeper.
Doughty - If he can regain his 2002 form, keep, otherwise show him the door.
Ladhams - show him the door so he can told us how good he was
Massie - keep. People bag him for no reason. Tough as nails. Was one of our best before that essendon game and his 2003 season has been terrific.
Schuback - should be given more time. Has the talent, I like the way he plays. Doubt we will delist him but its a make or break year for him
Skipworth - meh
Shirley - meh
Smith - needs to show something at the AFL level this year if he wants to stay on.
S. Stevens - A footy smart player and no where near as bad as people make him out to be. Solid pick up
Torney - get real. An integral part of our backline. One of the toughest players on our list. Goes places where no man should. I am told he was excellent yesterday in the testing. Has coem back in a top shape. If he can have injury free pre-season he will be a walk up start for the back 6
Perrie - last year of his contract. I think he will be kept.

 

[Crowked]

By the way, does that Avatar also come in John Howard.

No, I was just looking for something a bit silly to use, so I typed in Village Idiot into Google Search and there they were, heaps of George W Bush & Homer Simpson pics. I thought it was a pretty good one, the most important and powerful man in the world is universally (electronic universe anyway)renowned as a village idiot.

Would definately suit our illustrious leader though, hes a knobhead as well.

 

[Cap]

Begley – cant believe people would even talk about him being delisted by the end of 05' will be in the running for a leadership role.
Bode - hopefully Bode and Burton get disposal lessons this pre-season
Bock – needs to get his brain up and working again - wont be delisted
Burton – see bode - wont be going any where but should be our FF
Doughty – Doughty fan - if it wasnt for Mr Farmer we he wouldnt be on this list
Ladhams – if only he had Bodes drive because he is 2x as skillfull will be delisted 05'
Massie – We need him more at Norwood - good fill in player wont be delisted
Schuie – needs a great 05' not to be delisted
Skipwoth – delist 05.
Shirley – underrated - is talked about in the same way as edwards early in his career. With no Stinger i am sure he will show something
Smith – dont know only seen him once - needs to change the colour of his hair to have any impact .
S Stevens – great skills but soft as warm butter probably be delisted 05' unless he has a contract.
Perrie - Should left to play his natural game - to many critics

 

[Cap]

No, I was just looking for something a bit silly to use, so I typed in Village Idiot into Google Search and there they were, heaps of George W Bush & Homer Simpson pics. I thought it was a pretty good one, the most important and powerful man in the world is universally (electronic universe anyway)renowned as a village idiot.

Would definately suit our illustrious leader though, hes a knobhead as well.

too bad that knob head leader just got voted back in again with a greater number of seats - so cant be that big of a knobhead !!

 

[Crowked]

Begley - A real talent who copped OP last year. If he overcomes that he is a player. Either out of BP, HBF or wing he can be a very good player. I expect him to play like he did before injury this year.
Bode - Bode will show all the doubters that he is a good player. Give him game time and decent opportunity and he will not disappoint.
Bock - meh
Burton - has another 2 years on his contract. No chance of getting delisted. He is a keeper.
Doughty - If he can regain his 2002 form, keep, otherwise show him the door.
Ladhams - show him the door so he can told us how good he was
Massie - keep. People bag him for no reason. Tough as nails. Was one of our best before that essendon game and his 2003 season has been terrific.
Schuback - should be given more time. Has the talent, I like the way he plays. Doubt we will delist him but its a make or break year for him
Skipworth - meh
Shirley - meh
Smith - needs to show something at the AFL level this year if he wants to stay on.
S. Stevens - A footy smart player and no where near as bad as people make him out to be. Solid pick up
Torney - get real. An integral part of our backline. One of the toughest players on our list. Goes places where no man should. I am told he was excellent yesterday in the testing. Has coem back in a top shape. If he can have injury free pre-season he will be a walk up start for the back 6
Perrie - last year of his contract. I think he will be kept.

Agreed on most, Its hard to tell at this stage which of these players were being held back by Ayres. The likes of Torney, Bode and Begley should be better under Craig, but Im not entirely convinced. I suspect we will know pretty early in the season.

 

[mymansyd]

Should Be there in 2006, no matter what...

Roo, Edwards, McLeod, Johncock, Goodwin, Welsh, Thompson, McGregor, Reilly, Bassett, Hentschel, Bode, Jericho, Hart, Rutten, Watts.

Make or Break Year...

Burton, Doughty, Biglands, Perrie, Skipworth, S.Stevens, Mattner, Torney, Massie, Bock, Begley, Shirley, Ladhams, Hudson, Schuback, Smith, Krueger.

Will probably Retire...

Clarke, M.Stevens

 

[Thunderstruck]

Begley – Must keep. Has a lot of talent and a good head on his shoulders. If injury free would be a major bonus.
Bode - Keep. Needs to remain injury free and should play more forward roles.
Bock – Has some talent but to be frank is not up to it IMO.
Burton – Keep. Handy in forward lines, we need him there now, back to the old Birdman we used to know with his big leaps and lots of goals.
Doughty – Keep. Tries hard, not blessed with much ability but no mug.
Ladhams – Last Chance. Needs to get his brain right, if he does can show us his 2003 form which was pretty good.
Massie – Keep. Honest battler who IMO doesn't get a fair go. Very good off the HBF
Schuie – Last Chance. Has talent but needs to break into team more often. Handy around HFF.
Skipwoth – Keep. Underated, small but nimble. Good footy brain who can improve even more. Doesn't mind hard stuff, tho could learn to kick longer.
Shirley – Last Chance. Handy as a tagger but inconsistent. Average player no real abilities that standout. Needs a miracle season to survive axe.
Smith – Last Chance. Alhough it is his first chance he needs to show some good signs or should be cut.
S Stevens – Keep. Top mark and works well around the ground. If he can become just a little bit harder at the ball, will develop into a good KPP.
Perrie - Keep. Honest battler, tries hard needs to improve kicking but top mark and agressive in forward lines, which is what we need.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Begley – No question of the talent, but needs to stay on the park more regularly.
Bode - Disposal is crap. Better suited as a crumbing forward, but should have traded IMO.
Bock – Can't see a future in.
Burton – Still a matchwinner, but must be managed properly.
Ladhams – If only he was as good as he thinks he is.
Massie – Adds toughness, but no longer in best-22, but deserves spot on the list
Schuback – Reckon the guy has good talent, but needs to break thorough in 2005.
Skipworth – Honest trier who did enough in 2004 to deserve another year to prove himself.
Shirley – Just don't think he has the talent to make it.
Smith – Improved heaps for Sturt & has 2005 to show whether he can do it at AFL level. May surprise a few.
S Stevens – Useful depth player, but unfortunately more suited to a flank than a KP.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Smith – ...don't know - some pretty loyal Sturt supporters tell me he is a bit of a receiver .

2005 AA CHB then?

 

[macca23]

Begley - won't be delisted. In our best 22 in defence minding those quick little pesky forwards
Bode - won't be delisted. Traded at worst. Given time on the oval and shown a bit of faith, expect him to have a far better 2005.
Bock - not a KPP. Maybe a tall flanker either forward or back. Probably gone at end of 2005
Burton - a keeper.
Doughty - Make or break season, he's not a kid any more - probably survive.
Ladhams - Will be gone unless he does a U-turn in attitude and input.
Massie - a keeper. Good depth player at very worst.
Schuback - hasn't shown enough. I think he'll be gone.
Skipworth - goes alright. Expect him to survive.
Shirley - does better than given credit for, and unless another tagger emerges, he'll stay.
Smith - why is he even on the list. Gone.
S. Stevens - Needs to show his best on a more consistent basis. Definitely not safe.
Torney - top player and well inside our best 22 as a HB flanker. A definite keep.
Krueger - has to prove that he doesn't have detachable body parts a la Ryan Fitzgerald. Has to stay on the oval to stay in the squad.

Most at risk: Bock, Doughty, Ladhams, Schuback, Smith, Scott Stevens, Krueger.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Begley - won't be delisted. In our best 22 in defence minding those quick little pesky forwards

Bode - would delisted. Trade if possible . How many chances/clubs needed.

Bock - not a KPP. Maybe a tall flanker either forward or back.Did some nice things in games towards season end, but also did some P...W... things as well - 2005 defining year.

Burton - perfect trade bate for a higher draft pick though apparently not in the Crows philosophy.

Doughty - depth player - system of turning over players (min 3) each season will catch-up with him.

Ladhams - Will be gone unless he does a U-turn in attitude and input.

Massie - a keeper. Good depth player at very worst.

Schuback - hasn't shown enough. 2005 defining year - last chance IMO

Skipworth - DELIST ! - AFL mediocrity

Shirley - DELIST ! - AFL mediocrity

Smith - soft bigmen in the Bock mould - huge doubt, but haven't seen him at AFL level so reserve judgement.

S. Stevens - Smart, slow footballer - needs to definately up a gear to stay.

Torney - in same bracket as Massie

Krueger - sounds great, great build, attack on the ball - when can we see him play

Most at risk: Skippy, Shirley, Doughty, Smith, Stevens.

 

[Skippy_14]

Most of them are right. Most of them... Ladhams, Smith, S. Stevens should already all be gone. Damn contracts! Smith > Parker

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Most of them are right. Most of them... Ladhams, Smith, S. Stevens should already all be gone. Damn contracts! Smith > Parker

don't you mean Parker > Smith?

 

[Mad Dog]

2005 AA CHB then?

I didn't know that "contest Avoiders Anonomous" had a team next year !!!!!!.. ....maybe we could supply an onballer as well.

 

[Nige_Bix]

Make or Break Year...

Burton, Doughty, Biglands, Perrie, Skipworth, S.Stevens, Mattner, Torney, Massie, Bock, Begley, Shirley, Ladhams, Hudson, Schuback, Smith, Krueger.

Makes me worry when I see a list like that so big! Gotta say on Bock's performace in the GF they can delist him now! I'd say the Eagles would love to!

 

[Arsene Wenger]

Begley – Harsh call because i think he is very good player, but i guess if he cant play again next year then he would have to be looked at.
Bode - Not a chance of being delisted if he is given a game. Cant even believe people have been talking about Bodey in such terms. Need someone to fly the Bays flag!
Burton – I doubt we would delist him but he could find himself up for trade. Can be VERY damaging on his day, for and against us ofcourse.
Doughty – Im not a Doughty hater. Return to 2002 form ,he'll be sweet.
Ladhams – Super talented, just needs to work harder at AFL level. Could be traded.
Massie – First half of 2004, he was one of our best. love his hardness. Make or break year for him. Need his toughness tho.
Schuie – Agree, more game time needed. Think he could be delisted tho.
Skipwoth – Keeps his late 2004 form, and hes a keeper for mine.
Shirley – Ive got a soft spot for Robbie. Trys hard and does a good job when given a task. Probably be delisted once another tagger is found as he generally doesnt get enough of the ball himself.
Smith – Agree, has had enough time. Not his fault but AFC should have tried him out at the end of 2004 to see how he would make the grade. Still suprised he was kept over Parker. I heard Parker has a bad attitude, could that have been the difference?
S Stevens – I like him. Good skills for a big man, great mark, not a bad thinker. just needs to work harder and impose himself more. bulk up aswell.
Bock - I just dont see why everyone gets the knickers in a not about him. I saw enough promising things from him in his first season of playing AFL, and i couldnt give a rats about how he played in the SANFL grand final. Good mark, got a bit of dash for a big guy. Personally id give him more time. Isnt a key position player, more of a tall HBF like Mcphee i think.

Notice you didnt mention Perrie? For me he is in the same boat as shirley. As soon as we have someone better to take over he should be gone unless he can have a consistent 2005. The only reason he is still on the list is because we have SFA in ready made key position forwards, especialy with Stevens no certainty to continue. if it werent for his late season form and lack of anyone else he would have been delisted this year. Fantastic work ethic and mark, but decision making and footy brain doesnt appear to be running at the required level.

Your pretty much spot on, but I must say bock like mcphee, thats a bit rich even you would admit. I really dont want to offend anyone, but I think Bock is very very poor