Shit-Down Defence looking Loose.

[Pie eyed]

Collingwood's brilliant "Shit-Down" has been very restrictive in past games, but the last two, we let things get a little loose.
I think the back six need a strict Cheese diet in preparation or the Cats Blockbuster in order to stem the free scoring displayed versus Brisbane.
I'm also more than a little peeved the media have not run with the new defensive structure name while still constructing rubbish "the Lyon Cage".

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The shit-down per se seems to be doing okay to me, the problem is when we're moving forward with the ball and turn it over. We get done on the counter-attack which the shit-down is not really designed to combat.

Looking at the Fremantle game for instance, I think two goals were scored earlyish by the Dockers due to turnovers; when Heath Shaw was legged but it was awarded as a holding-the-ball, and when Swan was trying to ride a tackle and hand off but it fell short about 60m out.

One wonders whether the shit-down has been brought in in part to allow Reid and Brown to play seniors, without having as much ball coming into the backline. In the absence of the shit-down zone, these two would have to spend a lot more time playing one-on-one on an opponent with a much higher inside-50 count. Granted, the shit-down also means that if the ball gets over the back, Reid and Brown will really have their work cut out for them as they won't have any extra numbers to help them out.

 

[DWil6]

I was less than thrilled with our effort against the Kangas defensively and this game has heightened fears. When we inevitably do a turn over, as all teams do, it seems to lead to our backman being under the ball, running with the flight to get to their opponent before giving away a free kick in a clumsy attempt to spoil. I guess this issue hasn't been massive as we are scoring so much ourselves, but better teams would have hurt us more. We definitley need to address this problem before the cats game or it could be another lesson from the best.

 

[DWil6]

Another example of a turnover goal was the Jolly skewed kick across the forward 50 to an opponent. The Dockers moved the ball quickly down field and scored as our defense didnt get time to find it's structure.

 

[soreplums]

The shit-down per se seems to be doing okay to me, the problem is when we're moving forward with the ball and turn it over. We get done on the counter-attack which the shit-down is not really designed to combat.

Looking at the Fremantle game for instance, I think two goals were scored earlyish by the Dockers due to turnovers; when Heath Shaw was legged but it was awarded as a holding-the-ball, and when Swan was trying to ride a tackle and hand off but it fell short about 60m out.

One wonders whether the shit-down has been brought in in part to allow Reid and Brown to play seniors, without having as much ball coming into the backline. In the absence of the shit-down zone, these two would have to spend a lot more time playing one-on-one on an opponent with a much higher inside-50 count. Granted, the shit-down also means that if the ball gets over the back, Reid and Brown will really have their work cut out for them as they won't have any extra numbers to help them out.

yep. i agree that goals on the counter is a by product of our attacking game. I think though, that on some occasions that we have conceded a couple of easy goals that earlier on in the year and late last year we didn't.

But I suppose that when you average an extra 6-7 goals a game, you can probable concede 3 or 4 more that won't hurt too much.

 

[Quicky]

It's definitely a by product of our game plan. Fact is once the ball is cleared through the zone we are vulnerable at the back. But the issue is deeper than that. Maxwell and O'Brien have been ordinary. Shaw has not been himself either. I think they need their heads pulled in a bit, they seem to have gotten ahead of themselves because they have been uncharacteristically poor. Presti back in will improve us. I think we have the ingredients there they just need to tighten up as a unit.

 

[mattys123]

AS bad as it may sound, a loss may be what the defence needs to "wake up" and be more accountable.

I don't think any of the players are "getting ahead of themselves", but they are playing a different style of game then they have in the past.

Friday night was a little better, as if you take away the last 3 junk time goals from Freo, they would have scored mid 70's, which is probably our target for most weeks.

A loss, as much as I don't want one, might get the backline back to it's defensive best.

But the problem is (great problem to have to), if we beat Geelong, I can't see a loss coming for a while.

I thought the backline was better on Friday night, especially Brown and Reid.

 

[Syphoncom]

Don't think we need a loss at all to be honest. I don't subscribe to that concept and it certainly didn't help the Saints last year.

We've already lost one game, we almost lost to Melbourne and we've got an incredibly tough few weeks coming up anyway. I think the stinging losses is prelims over the years (02/03 wouldn't influence many any more) would still be fresh in the mind (at least at the business end of the season) - add Bally too.

But I do think in terms of "waking up" that would mainly apply to some of the younger guys we have in the side yeah? - I don't see players like Presti when hes back, even Maxwell shirking any of their responsibility.

Rather players like Shaw and Jesus seem to either have great games or ordinary games because of the run they provide off half-back. Whether it's correct or not, I (and I'd say many others) would think of Harry and Heath as players who often look to break the tackle/run around the mark/outrun their opponent. Often this can look fantastic, but 1 or 2 mistakes (especially given it's in the backline) and all of a sudden they're looking bad.

No doubt they've had some subpar games, but as many have said above when we're kickign 20+ goals game after game as long as we're winning by ~60 points (we should've done that again sigh) it's good to have some areas MM can look at and criticise.

If we're aware of it I'm sure they'd be doing their best to maintain level heads and get the job done.


Maybe instead of wanting a loss to introduce some accountability, just change the gameplan? Instead of failing to win in another shootout where we're getting to far ahead of the ball and dying to TOs, play a more defensive game? I dunno, but I'd rather go 21-1!

 

[Number 10]

We will definately bring back Presti this week, no doubt about it. Probably drop both MAcaffer and Brown. Presti and Reid will do well on Hawkins + Pods, Maxwell to Mooney, Harry to Varcoe, Heath to Stokes. Shit-down defence is complete.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

There are a couple of obvious weaknesses in the shit-down, but the strengths may outweigh them.

*If you can kick over the back of the zone, say like Wells did with a torpedo for North Melbourne, you don't have the numbers defensively to provide support.
*Running forward of the ball once possession is turned over kills you if you don't retain possession yourself.

The second point demands that you have players who can dispose of the ball accurately by foot, AND that you have players up forward who can retain possession if you can't mark outright inside 50. This is a real strength of Dawes (sorry if I sound like a broken record) because he's strong at ground level if he doesn't take the mark, and smart enough to handball to advantage. In fact both Dawes and Anthony had a high number of goal assists this week which should please the coaching staff.

 

[TradeDraft]

It's definitely a by product of our game plan. Fact is once the ball is cleared through the zone we are vulnerable at the back. But the issue is deeper than that. Maxwell and O'Brien have been ordinary. Shaw has not been himself either. I think they need their heads pulled in a bit, they seem to have gotten ahead of themselves because they have been uncharacteristically poor. Presti back in will improve us. I think we have the ingredients there they just need to tighten up as a unit.

O'Brien I thought was very Ordinary vs Freo and does worry without Presti we do look lost at times

 

[Soul_Pie]

I think when you're lacking a bloke like Presti who is so reliable a lock down defender, you do start to become a little bit weaker down back. The same thing happened with Geelong and Scarlett, the shut down defenders are so vital to your team. You can still win games without them, but your defence just doesn't look as organised.

I've also noticed because of the inexperience of a couple of the young blokes in Brown and Reid that our other defenders have made a concerted effort to get around to helping them. Often, however, this has come at the cost of allowing their direct opponents to get goals on them. With Presti you get stability, you know exactly what you're getting, with guys like Reid and Brown in the team you're always mindful of helping them out and alleviating the pressure. I think as these guys mature and begin to feel at home amongst the defensive unit things will come together and we will tighten up on the cheap goals.

Still reckon Presti has a major part to play this year, though. Absolute gun defender whose experience and commitment to the task at hand will be vital come September.

 

[soho]

can someone describe this so called 'shit-down defence' for me please?

kthnx
xoxo

 

[Syphoncom]

Typo in an article. Someone will link (Typo from shut-down).

Hilarious!

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Typo was fixed within a couple of hours on afl.com.au. Original quote in my sig.

 

[handy point]

Easily fixed for next week.



In:

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

^^^

No thanks, we'll start spraying them.

Whilst a loss may kick-start the backline, I'd like them to play themselves back into form during a tough win thank you very much!

 

[Pie eyed]

Any talk of "losses we need" is lunacy.
WE need to:
Beat Geelong, by a single point, don't care.
Smash Brisbane, for cathartic, demon exorcising reasons.
Win every game we possibly can then,
Play and beat the Saints as soon as possible.