Should Australia adopt anti-hate group (nazi) laws?

[Scallop Industry Thug]

"Scared nazis are the 2nd best type. Dead ones are still #1."

A big girl's blouse, or just a blouse?
You got something against blouses? Or big girls?

Yes, nazis such as them and yourself, are scared of peaceful protests.

 

[Episode IV]

Yes, nazis such as them and yourself, are scared of peaceful protests.

I'm sure they are. Particularly when those peaceful protesters would prefer right wingers to be peacefully dead.

I'm not sure about the connection with big girls and Nazis, though. Is that a thing, do you think? Got a source?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I'm sure they are. Particularly when those peaceful protesters would prefer right wingers to be peacefully dead.

I'm not sure about the connection with big girls and Nazis, though. Is that a thing, do you think? Got a source?

Bear in mind, some of your nazi mates are police informants. Most likely the ones that have recently been arrested or convicted. Just an FYI.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I'm sure they are. Particularly when those peaceful protesters would prefer right wingers to be peacefully dead.

I'm not sure about the connection with big girls and Nazis, though. Is that a thing, do you think? Got a source?

BTW, I said dead nazis. No issues with Sewell and the like meeting their demise. You're equating the right with them.

 

[Power Raid]

I'm uncomfortable with either the radical left or the radical right

but I'm also uncomfortable with the Australian government marginalising and hate laws against communists and indigenous people in the past. As such I wouldn't want to see laws go too extreme against nazi/ facists etc as we see upon reflection we probably didn't get these issues right.

Let's hold them to account through the existing laws and allowing them to look foolish with their own representations.

 

[Episode IV]

Bear in mind, some of your nazi mates are police informants. Most likely the ones that have recently been arrested or convicted. Just an FYI.

Some of those who work forces are the same who wear crosses? Who would have thought.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I'm uncomfortable with either the radical left or the radical right

but I'm also uncomfortable with the Australian government marginalising and hate laws against communists and indigenous people in the past. As such I would want to see laws go too extreme against nazi/ facists etc as we see upon reflection we probably didn't get these issues right.

Let's hold them to account through the existing laws and allowing them to look foolish with their own representations.

A lot of the far left agree that laws eventually will favour the white power structure. They'd much rather deal with the neo nazis themselves.

The state protected the chuds yesterday.

 

[Episode IV]

I'm uncomfortable with either the radical left or the radical right

but I'm also uncomfortable with the Australian government marginalising and hate laws against communists and indigenous people in the past. As such I would want to see laws go too extreme against nazi/ facists etc as we see upon reflection we probably didn't get these issues right.

Let's hold them to account through the existing laws and allowing them to look foolish with their own representations.

Agreed, assuming you meant "wouldn't" want.
"Allowing them to look foolish with their own representations" is a good way to go about it. The banning of symbology is as tyrannical as the other things you mentioned (quite a long list to be added there); whitewashing history is never a good idea.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Agreed, assuming you meant "wouldn't" want.
"Allowing them to look foolish with their own representations" is a good way to go about it. The banning of symbology is as tyrannical as the other things you mentioned (quite a long list to be added there); whitewashing history is never a good idea.

No whitewashing. There are numerous exceptions to the ban.

it didn't stop Sewell and his mates from doing their thing in Spring st.

 

[Episode IV]

A lot of the far left agree that laws eventually will favour the white power structure. They'd much rather deal with the neo nazis themselves.

The state protected the chuds yesterday.

Bit late, I think. The Chuds are mostly gone now, as a people. A few remnants in Finland and Estonia, perhaps, but culturally insignificant.
I think they might object to having their name used to describe some sort of monster, though, if they were still around to complain about it.

I think that there's some law regarding that actually, although I suppose if we're to assume that all laws are going to apply to the white power structure eventually, then it really doesn't apply and we're free to go around calling people whatever we like.

 

[Malifice]

How many NAZIs (neo, white nationalists or whatever) do people think are actually in Australia?
Hundreds?
Thousands?
Tens of thousands?
Hundreds of thousands?

Im not including morons with "Like it or leave" stickers on their utes, but people in actual hate groups?

One is too many:

 

[HairyO]

One is too many:

Sure. But how many resources and laws do you need to stop one?

Particularly given its literally impossible to stop one person.

 

[Malifice]

Sure. But how many resources and laws do you need to stop one?

Particularly given its literally impossible to stop one person.

You were like totally fine with literally spending billions on stopping boats, ASIO and State efforts plus reams of pretty draconian Legislation/ Counter Terrorism, DSD computer monitoring, citizenship stripping, full blown Military interventions overseas etc etc to go after terrorists of the Islamic variety.

That was all OK, but leave the poor Nazi terrorists alone?

Right wingers simping for Nazis. Pretty standard fare for these parts.

 

[HairyO]

You were like totally fine with literally spending billions on stopping boats, ASIO and State efforts plus reams of pretty draconian Legislation/ Counter Terrorism, DSD computer monitoring, citizenship stripping, full blown Military interventions overseas etc etc to go after terrorists of the Islamic variety.

That was all OK, but leave the poor Nazi terrorists alone?

Right wingers simping for Nazis. Pretty standard fare for these parts.

I was? I have a suspicion youve either made this up or are mistaking me for someone else.

 

[Malifice]

I was? I have a suspicion youve either made this up or are mistaking me for someone else.

OK, let me rephrase.

Do you think the State should ignore radicalized Right-Wing Terrorists (and we've seen hundreds of recent attacks, including one by an Australian national in NZ) or does the State have an obligation to act?

As a liberal, I obviously think the State has an obligation to act (there is a real harm to be addressed), and that the laws must be proportionate to the harm.

'No flying Swastikas and Heiling Hitler and recruiting others to the same cause' seems like a reasonable and proportionate harm minimization strategy (and a minimal restriction on liberty), just like would be banning people flying the Black flag of Jihad and recruiting people in ISIS cells here in Oz as well.

I'd go further (hammering misinformation peddlers online, blocking 4Chan and other forums and websites with rampant Nazi s**t on them, and going after online radicalization as well).

I think the government are catching up to the problems of Social media radicalization far too late. We saw it with Islamic Jihadists, and we're seeing it again with Nazi flogs. Invariably radicalized online.

 

[HairyO]

OK, let me rephrase.

Do you think the State should ignore radicalized Right-Wing Terrorists (and we've seen hundreds of recent attacks, including one by an Australian national in NZ) or does the State have an obligation to act?

As a liberal, I obviously think the State has an obligation to act (there is a real harm to be addressed), and that the laws must be proportionate to the harm.

'No flying Swastikas and Heiling Hitler and recruiting others to the same cause' seems like a reasonable and proportionate harm minimization strategy (and a minimal restriction on liberty), just like would be banning people flying the Black flag of Jihad and recruiting people in ISIS cells here in Oz as well.

I'd go further (hammering misinformation peddlers online, blocking 4Chan and other forums and websites with rampant Nazi s**t on them, and going after online radicalization as well).

I think the government are catching up to the problems of Social media radicalization far too late. We saw it with Islamic Jihadists, and we're seeing it again with Nazi flogs. Invariably radicalized online.

I didnt say ignore. I just dont think its a massive issue in this country.

I also think we have to be very careful distinguishing between mouthing off on the internet and actual dangerous behaviour.

Thought crimes are a rocky road.

We need stronger freedoms of speech not weaker. Surely as a liberal you'd agree there.

 

[Malifice]

I just dont think its a massive issue in this country.

40 percent of ASIO resources are currently devoted to investigating Neo Nazi and far right wing terrorist threats.

3 RWNJ Sov Cits just murdered 3 coppers and a civvy in Queensland. An Aussie expat Neo Nazi murdered 70 odd people in New Zealand recently. There have been literally scores of foreign examples of radicalized RWNJ/ Neo Nazi terror attacks, mass shootings, car ramming attacks and bombings the world over in the past few years.

UK, Europe, USA, NZ, Canada etc.

What makes our Neo Nazis and RWNJ's different to theirs?

 

[HairyO]

40 percent of ASIO resources are currently devoted to investigating Neo Nazi and far right wing terrorist threats.

3 RWNJ Sov Cits just murdered 3 coppers and a civvy in Queensland. An Aussie expat Neo Nazi murdered 70 odd people in New Zealand recently. There have been literally scores of foreign examples of radicalized RWNJ/ Neo Nazi terror attacks, mass shootings, car ramming attacks and bombings the world over in the past few years.

UK, Europe, USA, NZ, Canada etc.

What makes our Neo Nazis and RWNJ's different to theirs?

And by global standards the numbers here are tiny.

Yes its a risk but so is massive overreach by government.

 

[Malifice]

And by global standards the numbers here are tiny.

Each 'tiny' incident results in a literal mass murder.

Yes its a risk but so is massive overreach by government.

No, 'stopping mass murders' is not Government overreach for God's sake. That is quite literally what the government is there to do.

We have a liberal government. Our government only exists to protect its citizens from harm from other people. That definition includes protecting people from 'mass murdering Nazi's'

Whose liberty is being restricted here other than those 'peace loving' Nazis that want to fly Swastikas 'peacefully' out the front of Synagogues and s**t?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I think there needs to be a sorting screen.

1. Does the group concerned seek to enhance or degrade overall human rights in society?
2. What methods are they willing to employ to achieve their aims?

Neo-Nazis and their Far Right mates will always be in favour of degrading overall human rights in society. They should always be the ones the State should come down hardest on.

Other groups who may employ violence to achiever their aims are still a worry, but motivation should always be considered a key factor when moving against them.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Germany (for obvious reasons) and some other countries have anti-nazi laws which were instituted as part of the effort to restrict the recruiting programs of neo-nazis and sympathisers.

Basically, it’s illegal to display or promote nazi symbolism - display the swastika, publish nazi material, walk around in public pulling nazi hand signals or yelling “Heil Hitler” etc. The laws have been very effective.

Seeing s**t like the morons yesterday, and the recent establishment of some hate groups (eg Antipodean Resistance: The Rise and Goals of Australia's New Nazis - ABC Religion & Ethics ), should Australia go down the same path?

We already have a range of laws against open racism and hate speech - Hate speech laws in Australia - Wikipedia - incl the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act in Victoria. Right wing nutters assured us at the time that it was the end of free speech... it hasn’t turned out that way, of course.

Until the 70s/80s the Nazi movement was a relatively recent historical phenomenon and the horror of it was widely remembered and appreciated - not least among the plenty of former soldiers around who had personally fought against it.

Now, as it drifts into history, do we need an official recognition in law to ensure that efforts to popularise and recruit for a nazi movement are hampered and can be properly punished? To take away a flag for them to stand under?

If you wanna stand around and protest like a muppet, good luck to you. If you want to wear a swastika shirt or flag or scream out Heil Hitler, then as far as I’m concerned you can be thrown in the back of a divvy van and put before a judge.

Of course, the laws can be used for materials promoting other hate movements, such as Islamic State etc.

A little late from me, but absolutely.