Moved Thread Should the AFL have a full pride round?

[Dynamics]

Depending on your definition of transitioning, between 3% and 0.15% of people who transition regret transitioning.

Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Prevalence

Supplemental Digital Content is available in the text.There is an unknown percentage of transgender and gender non-confirming individuals who undergo gender-affirmation surgeries (GAS) that experiences regret. Regret could lead to physical and mental ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I acknowledge that this still leaves a subset of the population that regrets their transition, but 3% of what is already a small percentage of the population (39 from 10,000 individuals) is much lower than the binary you're proposing as equal.

That examples exist does not entail that those examples are representative of a wider population.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read.

 

[iameviljez]

Complete opposite this isn't 1980 anymore. The first player to come out as gay will be rightly celebrated and held up as a role model. Every major organisation will be throwing cash to sponsor them and media jobs would flow after football

I think it would be both.

You would definitely get held up as a community leader and ambassador. The club and most of your teammates would protect you.

However, there will also be a lot of blowback. Without a shadow of a doubt, your social media accounts will be filled with hate. You'll have a few unpleasant interactions on the street. Everything about your football career will be defined by being "the gay footballer". There will be teammates who will quietly avoid you, particularly in the changerooms. Things like your dating life and who you bring to club events will become a soap opera. And yes, you'll cop some nasty shit from the terraces. You will become a bit of a lightning rod for conservative organisations.

 

[Freshwater]

To a certain degree, they do force it IMO. MLK is now remembered in a rather sanitised manner with having dreams about little white boys and girls playing together. In the 60s, he pushed a lot of messages that a lot of people didn't want to hear, hard.

MLK is the perfect example of a leader pushing for his ideals. He didn’t force his views he articulated them. If any individual wants to push this issue that’s their right, go for it. Just don’t force clubs and players to wear guernsey’s supporting this or that cause even if you think they may be worthy causes.

 

[THECHIEFTON]

I assume you're talking about kids with gender dysphoria starting transition before the age of 18?

The problem is that puberty doesn't wait for age of adulthood, by definition - so puberty blockers and the like can delay it, but it's far from perfect. Furthermore, early intervention is shown to have long-term positive results for wellbeing, mental health etc.

So yes, I completely get what you're saying, but the problem is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Yes that's what I'm talking about.

From what I've read and heard puberty blockers and testosterone (for females) do have long term side effects. I was also under the impression that the majority of kids who aren't given gender affirming treatment actually grow out of it.

 

[rye]

Lots of hatred? Is there really?

I think the movement has gone to far. I don't think we need a round to promote it. I don't think it's something we need to shove down the throats of young kids.

is having rounds to promote indigenous Australians shoving aboriginal culture down the throats of young kids? do you object to that?

showing kids that its OK to be gay / trans / etc and to take pride in that identity if it rings true to them is one of the most important parts of such a round if it were to eventuate. silly comment

 

[Kwality]

There has only been one overt objectioner in the AFLW. Should Haneen Zreika be seen as a bigot though?

Ask those chucking 'bigot' about, when referring to others. It screams virtue signalling not inclusiveness.

 

[rye]

Ask those chucking 'bigot' about, when referring to others. It screams virtue signalling not inclusiveness.

as soon as you accuse someone of virtue signalling youve lost the argument

 

[iameviljez]

Yes that's what I'm talking about.

From what I've read and heard puberty blockers and testosterone (for females) do have long term side effects. I was also under the impression that the majority of kids who aren't given gender affirming treatment actually grow out of it.

I'm not an authority on the subject - in fact, I'm pretty adamant that I don't know a huge amount about it and I doubt many laypeople do - but I'm of the understanding that delayed transition can be hugely dehabilitating for those who get it.

I completely get the argument that we aren't the "finished product" before 18, or indeed even before 25, but unfortunately - like fertility - the body's clock doesn't really care for personal politics.

 

[Dazzler9]

The AFL has Indigenous Round due to the high proportion of indigenous players in the comp.

The AFLW has Pride Round due to the high proportion of LGBTQIA+ players in that comp.

So I don't quite get why the AFL would need a Pride Round. It's just not an issue that impacts on any significant proportion of the comp. Besides, there's a plethora of themed rounds as it is. Adding another just dilutes the message of each one.

Having said all that I don't care if the AFL adds a Pride Round. It's inevitable that they will.

 

[THECHIEFTON]

is having rounds to promote indigenous Australians shoving aboriginal culture down the throats of young kids? do you object to that?

showing kids that its OK to be gay / trans / etc and to take pride in that identity if it rings true to them is one of the most important parts of such a round if it were to eventuate. silly comment

No because I don't see aboriginal culture as having a negative impact on kids.

 

[Gough]

is having rounds to promote indigenous Australians shoving aboriginal culture down the throats of young kids? do you object to that?

showing kids that its OK to be gay / trans / etc and to take pride in that identity if it rings true to them is one of the most important parts of such a round if it were to eventuate. silly comment

As a sports loving gay kid in the 80s I would have loved to have seen a cricketer or a footy player who was out and visible because all you got were John Inman or guys dying of AIDS on tele, and it made the future look pretty grim to be honest. Obviously it's a lot better now an but out male footy player would make a big difference to a lot of kids because elite men's sport (diving aside, I think it's compulsory in that) still looks like a closed shop to most gay men.

 

[IluvHarvey]

I just don't see the issue with it.
Promotes inclusiveness, clubs can benefit from cash grabs for sales of Jumpers/Scarves etc.
It's not hurting anyone.
Go for it!!

 

[Engimal v3]

Complete opposite this isn't 1980 anymore. The first player to come out as gay will be rightly celebrated and held up as a role model. Every major organisation will be throwing cash to sponsor them and media jobs would flow after football

If you were a mid range list clogger on track to play 50 games then be delisted coming out would be the difference between setting yourself up for life or back working on a construction site by 24

This is a bit naive, to be honest. I can guarantee that the DMs of the first openly gay AFL player would not be pleasant lol

 

[Kwality]

as soon as you accuse someone of virtue signalling youve lost the argument

& what argument is that? That inclusiveness excludes other points of view, e.g virtue signalling, your view is beyond question ?

Live & let live, respect other opinions, it doesnt mean you agree with them. You respect others right to that view OR you dont? Do you?

 

[Plugger46]

For some of those young kids seeing an out gay man playing AFL would be an inspiration.

Until that day comes though...

 

[Cmarsh]

Yeah keep bringing this up at every single opportunity, no matter how many times the matter is conclusively discussed and you are moved along.

Would have thought a player continuing to refuse to wear the pride jumper would be and should be part of an ongoing discussion about LGBTQI acceptance, not a concluded one.

 

[EconomicDecline]

30% is pretty low. Lower than I thought.

Equal rights? As in the right to get "married" ? I think you'll find most religious people have issue with them using the term marriage because it's a religious term. I'm not religious either FYI so I'm not an expert on that.

Marriage is a legal term. Don’t pretend otherwise.

 

[EconomicDecline]

Generally yeah it's the trans and over sexualisation of young children. Kids do definitely get pushed into the trans community when they are to young to understand the ramifications.

I've got no problem with people being gay. I've got no problem with adults wanting to be trans gender.

You’re just trotting out the same tired old fear mongering that conservatives love to trot out without any relation to reality.

 

[SuperVolley11]

There is a reason these type of discussions always have comments turned off on social media. The tiny minority absolutely ruin it for the rest because they can't keep their bullshit comments to themselves.

I find it hilarious that you have “day off” next to your name

 

[Kwality]

Would have thought a player continuing to refuse to wear the pride jumper would be and should be part of an ongoing discussion about LGBTQI acceptance, not a concluded one.

+/- I.

 

[Andyy]

Absolutely not, am sick of the game being used to make political and social agendas.

Only round I really like is the indigenous round and let's be honest they bloody deserve it given they created the damned game.

 

[Bartel84]

Generally yeah it's the trans and over sexualisation of young children. Kids do definitely get pushed into the trans community when they are to young to understand the ramifications.

I've got no problem with people being gay. I've got no problem with adults wanting to be trans gender.

Over sexualisation of kids (straight or gay) is wrong and has nothing to do with them learning that not everyone is born the same. Learning about the world is an LGBTQI + context has nothing to do with sex just like learning about it in a straight context.

That topic is an entire seperate topic

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Don’t care either way. If it helps go for it but meh

 

[JPetro83]

I think they're afraid of shaking that tree and seeing the bigots that fall out.

Amazing how in today's society that if you don't agree with the left or LGBTQIA stuff etc you are a bigot..

 

[JPetro83]

Short answer, NO!

 

[Chief]

Amazing how in today's society that if you don't agree with the left or LGBTQIA stuff etc you are a bigot..

Pretty broad brush there.