moomba
TheBrownDog
It qualifies you for the super cup.
Should the Champions League and Europa League be merged into a Super Champions League?
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moomba
TheBrownDog
This is your problem. You want to pick and choose that incentives are good enough for your club.
And you want everyone else to bend over and make it easier gore you to get the incentives you think are worthy.
No, I'm simply stating it as it is and pointing out the prevailing attitudes while trying to propose solutions for how I think what I believe is a problem that exists within the game can and should be resolved. You essentially blame the clubs, I prefer to focus more on the system within which those clubs operate.
moomba
TheBrownDog
The system seems to work out fine for the likes of Atletico Madrid, and I do think it's a particularly English problem with the competition that isn't anywhere near as much of a problem in other countries.
But in the end winning a European trophy isn't considered incentive enough for some, qualifying and playing in the super cup isn't incentive enough, actually having some pride in European successes isn't incentive enough, giving your supporters that travel throughout Europe something to shout about isn't incentive enough, it all comes down to Champions League, and many people will make it as easy as possible for their clubs to participate in it under the guise of whats good for the game.
Do I blame the system? Not a chance.
OK, you think that there is nothing wrong with the Europa League as it is and that this is all simply a case of self-interested English clubs and their supporters spitting the dummy; I think that that there are serious problems with the Europa League as it stands and have tried to propose solutions to the problems that I believe exist.
I think that we're just goiing to have to agree to disagree on this one.
I think that we're just goiing to have to agree to disagree on this one.
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- #82
Sounds like a great way to badly diminish TV ratings across most of Europe.
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- #83
A cup everybody doesn't care about.
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- #84
34% of Europeans live in those four* countries.
*United Kingdom not England in my short calculations
moomba
TheBrownDog
If people don't care about it that's their problem.
People seem to only care about the champions league and that is only because of the money they can earn from it. They don't even care about winning it as much as making money from participating in it.
Not proper football fans IMO, they probably had posters of accountants on their walls when they were kids.
moomba
TheBrownDog
Whats more important to you. Integrity of the competition or TV ratings?
We know whats more important to UEFA, but we don't all have to fall into line behind them do we?
hawkman
Hall of Famer
Just bring back the old UEFA cup knockout down from the round of 128 played during non Champions League weeks. Teams that aren't interested wil be out quickly and to win it a team would have to play the same amount of game as the CL winner
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- #88
Do you want interest in the larger countries to nosedive?
moomba
TheBrownDog
Don't really care if it does. I'll still be interested in it, I'm pretty sure my club will still be interested in it. The competition seemed to attract plenty of interest when it was a knockout before, and I'm sure it still would if it went back to a knockout comp.
Will never happen though, too much self interest and greed.
Will never happen though, too much self interest and greed.
hawkman
Hall of Famer
Do you think City will try and chase a Europa League spot next week?
moomba
TheBrownDog
Yeah, and while I think the odds are against us I'll be disappointed if we don't qualify.
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Name the last Italian club to take the Europa League seriously. Not that they are a league that should be looked at as a bench mark
Currently the Europa League is taken seriously by the following:
Spanish clubs outside the big 2
Eastern block clubs
Portuguese clubs who dont qualify for the CL
The french, english, german & italian clubs all dont take it seriously. Take Porto and Athletico aside and no good side with quality who could challenge CL sides do well in it / take it seriously.
As mentioned the CL will be contested by the 4 nations who dont take the EL seriously above along with the best 2 sides in the world Real and Barca
hawkman
Hall of Famer
Maybe they should have and they still might have the extra CL spot
moomba
TheBrownDog
You can earn as many points in the Europa League as the Champions League, some would argue its easier to earn more.
Hawkman has made a good point, another benefit of trying in the Europa League is getting the points.
That benefit lasts for five years if/when you do earn your spot in the Champions League.
This is in a way similar to the priority draft pick/tanking crap in the AFL
If the competition gives an incentive for certain underperforming clubs that winning as few matches as possible allows you to have another top pick, you cannot ride your high horse and criticise a club who's merely making use of the benefits the system offers them provided they act a certain way
Just as you cannot ride your high horse and criticise other clubs for not taking a competition seriously when on a realistic perspective, you offer almost zero incentive for a club to win the competition, so therefore they prioritize other competitions over it
Integrity can only exist within the framework designed by the powers that be, and if something was never created with integrity of the competition as a major concern to begin with, you cannot ride your high horse and criticise other clubs for "lacking the integrity required".
And it is hilarious that the one person who is riding his high horse and criticise other clubs is a Man City supporter, who already has more than big enough a squad to compete at all fronts (and ironically doesn't), who can afford to go on a non-existent moral high ground slinging mud at the other people with his idealistic dribble while being completely detached from reality
If the competition gives an incentive for certain underperforming clubs that winning as few matches as possible allows you to have another top pick, you cannot ride your high horse and criticise a club who's merely making use of the benefits the system offers them provided they act a certain way
Just as you cannot ride your high horse and criticise other clubs for not taking a competition seriously when on a realistic perspective, you offer almost zero incentive for a club to win the competition, so therefore they prioritize other competitions over it
Integrity can only exist within the framework designed by the powers that be, and if something was never created with integrity of the competition as a major concern to begin with, you cannot ride your high horse and criticise other clubs for "lacking the integrity required".
And it is hilarious that the one person who is riding his high horse and criticise other clubs is a Man City supporter, who already has more than big enough a squad to compete at all fronts (and ironically doesn't), who can afford to go on a non-existent moral high ground slinging mud at the other people with his idealistic dribble while being completely detached from reality
moomba
TheBrownDog
Funny that I had the same perspective before we had money, and when competing in the UEFA Cup was a dream. I've also maintained the same principles for a decade when it comes to the league cup, another competition many don't think is worthy of their clubs respect.
And if a club doesnt think winning the Europa League is sufficient incentive to make a proper effort in the competition then I will be critical of their attitude.
Posters of accountants on their wall. Seems a lot of people have forgotten the point of football.
And if a club doesnt think winning the Europa League is sufficient incentive to make a proper effort in the competition then I will be critical of their attitude.
Posters of accountants on their wall. Seems a lot of people have forgotten the point of football.
moomba
TheBrownDog
And because you appear to have missed it the first few times, I don't have a problem with clubs prioritising.
Its called squad management.
Its called squad management.
You put yourself in a really really small box when you're trying to some how differentiate "playing a weaker team" with "disrespecting the competition". The likes of Villa Bolton and Stoke mightn't be doing so well in the league, but they might still be prioritizing a league game over a Europa Cup tie hence the weaken teams, yet you're saying they're disrespecting it.
As for Liverpool, I think we disrepect it most the time this season so far and we've played some ridiculously weakened teams, yet apparently according to you, we aren't disrespecting it.
Last time I checked, you play a weaker team in a competition that you give a crap less than the other ones you'd play a stronger team in, the way you pick and choose and be selective about it is quite illogical, as illogical as you going on about success being all about money, then now talking about success over money, when clearly in your own words, those two things are not mutually exclusive
As for Liverpool, I think we disrepect it most the time this season so far and we've played some ridiculously weakened teams, yet apparently according to you, we aren't disrespecting it.
Last time I checked, you play a weaker team in a competition that you give a crap less than the other ones you'd play a stronger team in, the way you pick and choose and be selective about it is quite illogical, as illogical as you going on about success being all about money, then now talking about success over money, when clearly in your own words, those two things are not mutually exclusive
moomba
TheBrownDog
That's correct. Villa, Bolton and Stoke all sent out teams with no intention of winning the winnable games they had. It wasn't a matter of playing a kid here and there, or resting a top player here and there. It was straight out tanking.
That's correct, but you are entitled to think differently.
Once again, as you clearly missed it the first time I posted it in this thread, earning money has never, ever been more important than striving for success IMO. Clubs that think otherwise have the wrong mentality IMO. It is the same idea as tanking in AFL to get better draft picks, something I used to hate the idea of when it was suggested on North boards.
As for this idea that you need to tank in Europe to earn more money, how much extra money did Aston Villa earn from tanking the UEFA Cup? How much did Bolton earn from tanking the UEFA Cup? How much did Stoke earn from tanking the Europa League? Trying hard in Europa doesn't guarantee failure in the league, and tanking in Europe doesn't guarantee success. Some would have you believe otherwise, but it's just not the case IMO.
And even if you go by the idea that the Europa League comes at a cost to clubs in the league, why do so many have a problem with the idea that clubs that aren't interested should just withdraw from the competition? If it's just not worth it to you, forget about it. Concentrate on the league, earn as much money as you can (you can parade their balance sheets around in an open bus at the end of the season) and leave the competition for clubs that want to be in it.
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