List Mgmt. Should The Eagles Request A Priority Assistance Package at The End of This Year?

[Tugga27]

It’s clearly premised on the idea that we do indeed apply for a priority pick.

Which would be begging the AFL for help.

So we haven't asked for help?
Just checking.

 

[squashface]

Those who think any AFL club would say no to free first round picks are absolutely delusional imo.

Bizarre that this is even a conversation.

 

[Tugga27]

I agree.

That's why if we do accept help I won't be fussed.

If we knock back PPs I won't be fussed either

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I would be livid if we knocked back any sort of assistance.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Feeling Groovy]

Here’s more “it’s not our fault” nonsense.

Not only are you a beggar, you’re blaming others for reasons you’re a beggar!

when actually it’s all your own doing

We have plenty of blame for the state of our list and the state of our club and I am all for moving Simmo on (although think it will be around the bye or end of the year - whether I agree with that or not). We have stuffed our list but in an uncompromised draft we would have the same ability to rectify that under the same rules/terms as every other team. Unfortunately, the draft has been substantially compromised. To ignore that is wilful blindness to make your point. The northern academies are impacting the draft and give some teams top picks for cheap. Recently both GC and North have been given assistance packages substantially compromising the draft. Father sons and free agency impact the draft. Our second round pick got pushed back from pick 19 last year to 30 odd. That is all factual.

I don't like PP's but if the AFL uses them and continues to compromise the draft, then one of the levers you keep screaming the club needs to pull, is surely playing within the rules that apply to all other clubs at the moment. As I said, move to a completely uncompromised draft or prop up teams when they need it. You can't have it both ways that some clubs can get assistance but WC can't for ... "reasons"...

 

[Cuzz09]

We didn't knock it back but didn't we also not even apply for it last year?

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[hudson2006]

I am wholeheartedly against the concept and I would hate that the ‘hand out’ mentality of the league, both on and off the field, would be so intrinsically tied to the club.

But ******* hell, we are so, so bad.

We should only take them if they throw in an exorcism for free too.

It will be forgotten once we enter the next period of success, just like nobody cares that Shuey and Darling were priority picks.

When it comes to tax incentives, grants, leg ups etc. does anyone think that successful and respected businesses don’t apply for them, on principle? Absurd thinking, of course they do if they have any sense, and nobody cares. Success dictates respect, and the biggest tin rattlers are actually the big successful companies rorting systems however they can.

WCE will make the application for assistance if they think they meet the criteria, which is always vague because this is the AFL, so why not apply?

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

And if said player is a West Aussie and refuses to be traded, what do you do then?

Players don’t refuse to get traded.

We say “hey look, we are entering a phase of being down the bottom for a while and need to rejuvenate our list, if there’s a club you want to go to, we can try and get you there”.

99.9999% of players go “yep, I get it. It’s a business and the club has helped me since I was an 18 year old and I want to help them, and maybe a new club where I can get another flag would be a good thing”

The other 0.00001% is Adam Treloar.

This idea “we can’t trade WA blokes” is a) nonsense (see: Barrass) and b) hamstrings the club in a way that has led us to this point to its own detriment, and c) there’s another club in WA.

Do you think Freo aren’t taking Darling in 2021? Or Melbourne in 2021/22?

 

[Bacchus]

Wanna dig up your posts from 6 months ago commenting on Norths application for a PP?

We won a flag 6 years ago.

Freo have NEVER seen a flag, anyone under the age of 23 haven’t seen a Crows flag.

Heck, throw Essendon in there too who haven’t seen a final win in 20 years.

We win a flag 6 years ago, go begging to the AFL and have the gall to say “it’s the best thing for the competition for us to get a priority pick”, but don’t tell us we need to change. Don’t tell us that we need to cop a hiding as a product of the decisions we made. Don’t try and hold us as an organisation accountable….

Listen to yourself.

Yes, but our club is diabolically bad, worse than any I can remember except Fitzroy when they were coming to an end in the mid 1990’s.

I have been a supporter of the club since inception in 1987, and there have been some dark days in that time but this is the worst by far.

There is no clear way out atm. A new coach and draft help seem essential.

Who has run this club into the ground like this?

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

We have plenty of blame for the state of our list and the state of our club and I am all for moving Simmo on (although think it will be around the bye or end of the year - whether I agree with that or not). We have stuffed our list but in an uncompromised draft we would have the same ability to rectify that under the same rules/terms as every other team. Unfortunately, the draft has been substantially compromised. To ignore that is wilful blindness to make your point. The northern academies are impacting the draft and give some teams top picks for cheap. Recently both GC and North have been given assistance packages substantially compromising the draft. Father sons and free agency impact the draft. Our second round pick got pushed back from pick 19 last year to 30 odd. That is all factual.

I don't like PP's but if the AFL uses them and continues to compromise the draft, then one of the levers you keep screaming the club needs to pull, is surely playing within the rules that apply to all other clubs at the moment. As I said, move to a completely uncompromised draft or prop up teams when they need it. You can't have it both ways that some clubs can get assistance but WC can't for ... "reasons"...

Freo have built a pretty decent list in the exact same landscape that you are saying is too hard to navigate without assistance from AFL.

Pointing out also that clubs that have received priority picks in the last decade- Melbourne, Brisbane, GCS, North have all had a big broom come in and completely sweep away the dead wood.

Personally I think this thread was started only after round 1 this year in some knee jerk reaction to supporters feeling anxious about retaining Harley.

 

[briztoon]

We’re in our 4th season of fully understanding where we are at, and refusing to pull any levers to improve our on field position.

what levers are/were available to the club to improve on field performances?

How do you know the club hasn’t tried pulling those levers.

Also, I’d hazard a guess that you’re only in your 3rd season of the club/fans fully understanding where you’re at.

2021 you finished 9th, 1 game out of finals.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Yes, but our club is diabolically bad, worse than any I can remember except Fitzroy when they were coming to an end in the mid 1990’s.

I have been a supporter of the club since inception in 1987, and there have been some dark days in that time but this is the worst by far.

There is no clear way out atm. A new coach and draft help seem essential.

Who has run this club into the ground like this?

Agree with this, and I’m not trying to come across nasty, but I’m just absolutely livid that we are where we are, and there were clear indicators from 2020 onwards we needed to make urgent decisions to rejuvenate the list, and we didn’t.

Somehow there are still some who say “but what were we meant to do? Trade WA players who are contracted” as if I’m asking for the club to shoot Bambi.

We ****ed up. Need to own it, and not try to hide behind “it’s the best thing for the company” cos that is a red rag to a bull.

 

[Lia]

Yes to a priority pick, only on the basis of the draft being a complete mess. The second pick for the wooden spooner should not be pick 29.

The club can pull itself up by the bootstraps all it wants, but not asking the question due to a mistaken sense of pride (i.e framing it as begging) would be shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[Cuzz09]

Be good to get 5 picks within 30 that's what we need now

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[Feeling Groovy]

Freo have built a pretty decent list in the exact same landscape that you are saying is too hard to navigate without assistance from AFL.

Pointing out also that clubs that have received priority picks in the last decade- Melbourne, Brisbane, GCS, North have all had a big broom come in and completely sweep away the dead wood.

Personally I think this thread was started only after round 1 this year in some knee jerk reaction to supporters feeling anxious about retaining Harley.

But that is all irrelevant to what I said and I never said the above. The draft has been compromised. Teams are receiving AFL assistance in one form or another. If that is the system, then we need to work within it. Further, the big broom was not a condition of the AFL assistance. The big broom is not part of the northern academies and, coach aside (which I have given my opinion on), WC have had a big broom (arguably too late). It's all well and good to want Marquess of Queensbury rules, but it ain't going to win you an MMA fight.

As for the thread, I think it was started on the assumption that we finish last, which whilst it may be premature, is probably a fair bet and I think most people's view is prefaced on the assumption that we finish at the bottom of the table (last or second last) and continue to be woeful.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

what levers are/were available to the club to improve on field performances?

How do you know the club hasn’t tried pulling those levers.

Also, I’d hazard a guess that you’re only in your 3rd season of the club/fans fully understanding where you’re at.

2021 you finished 9th, 1 game out of finals.

Me personally. I said in other forums back in August 2021 that we needed to rejuvenate our list.

By 2021 we knew Venables was gone, that Brander was a bust, that there was very little coming through.

By 2021 we had 3 seasons of evidence that we were sliding backwards.

In 2021 Sydney came knocking for Barrass who was contracted until 2022- his FA year.

Instead of being prudent and seeing how 2022 played out, we got the jitters and signed him to a 5 year contract l, on top of the existing year left.

Had we held firm, he could have left in 2022 after a BNF and we would have gotten pick 3.

Same with Duggan in 2021. Twomey said he was worth a mid first at the time. There was interest. We could have signed him until FA jn 2022, maybe gotten lucky with pick 3 given how FA operates and incentives clubs have to generate high compo (see: Daniher) or traded him in 2021 for a mid first.

Darling still had value in 2021. Melbourne, Freo, Essendon, even GWS would have been interested. Let’s remember that GWS needed a KPF, took Brander as a DFA and gambled on Hogan hit the jackpot.

Even last year, Cal said Sydney would have parted with two firsts for Barrass, but we didn’t seem to give him a nudge and say it might be a win/win/win if you do go to Sydney.

Gaff was a free agent again in 2020, after signing a 2+4 deal.

Gov still had value in 2021 for a club like bulldogs who needed mature KPD talent at the time.

The club itself started talking about “rejuvenating through the draft” in the second half of 2021, however didn’t actually do anything to facilitate additional picks in order to actually rejuvenate.

Lists don’t get as bad as ours without wilfully putting your head in the sand and ignoring the evidence in front of you.

 

[Bacchus]

Agree with this, and I’m not trying to come across nasty, but I’m just absolutely livid that we are where we are, and there were clear indicators from 2020 onwards we needed to make urgent decisions to rejuvenate the list, and we didn’t.

Somehow there are still some who say “but what were we meant to do? Trade WA players who are contracted” as if I’m asking for the club to shoot Bambi.

We ****ed up. Need to own it, and not try to hide behind “it’s the best thing for the company” cos that is a red rag to a bull.

It’s obvious to everyone that we’ve ****ed up, except possibly the top echelons of the club who are still trying to hide and deny it.

But this doesn’t matter, change has to come and soon. Yesterday is too late.

There must be some at the top who recognise how bad things are.

Pyke was brought into turnaround this train wreck not perpetuate it.

We can’t afford to be proud. We’ve got to use every lever that’s available to get better.

 

[Goroyals22]

Me personally. I said in other forums back in August 2021 that we needed to rejuvenate our list.

By 2021 we knew Venables was gone, that Brander was a bust, that there was very little coming through.

By 2021 we had 3 seasons of evidence that we were sliding backwards.

In 2021 Sydney came knocking for Barrass who was contracted until 2022- his FA year.

Instead of being prudent and seeing how 2022 played out, we got the jitters and signed him to a 5 year contract l, on top of the existing year left.

Had we held firm, he could have left in 2022 after a BNF and we would have gotten pick 3.

Same with Duggan in 2021. Twomey said he was worth a mid first at the time. There was interest. We could have signed him until FA jn 2022, maybe gotten lucky with pick 3 given how FA operates and incentives clubs have to generate high compo (see: Daniher) or traded him in 2021 for a mid first.

Darling still had value in 2021. Melbourne, Freo, Essendon, even GWS would have been interested. Let’s remember that GWS needed a KPF, took Brander as a DFA and gambled on Hogan hit the jackpot.

Even last year, Cal said Sydney would have parted with two firsts for Barrass, but we didn’t seem to give him a nudge and say it might be a win/win/win if you do go to Sydney.

Gaff was a free agent again in 2020, after signing a 2+4 deal.

Gov still had value in 2021 for a club like bulldogs who needed mature KPD talent at the time.

The club itself started talking about “rejuvenating through the draft” in the second half of 2021, however didn’t actually do anything to facilitate additional picks in order to actually rejuvenate.

Lists don’t get as bad as ours without wilfully putting your head in the sand and ignoring the evidence in front of you.

We did also see fit to sign up a crippled ruckman for two years when everyone knew he was done and not coming back…
We wanted to resign our crippled captain again despite him breaking down every third week. Thankfully he realised what was best…
We kept signing hurn up for his kick to the right of screen tactical genius move that never works.





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[briztoon]

Me personally. I said in other forums back in August 2021 that we needed to rejuvenate our list.

By 2021 we knew Venables was gone, that Brander was a bust, that there was very little coming through.

By 2021 we had 3 seasons of evidence that we were sliding backwards.

In 2021 Sydney came knocking for Barrass who was contracted until 2022- his FA year.

Instead of being prudent and seeing how 2022 played out, we got the jitters and signed him to a 5 year contract l, on top of the existing year left.

Had we held firm, he could have left in 2022 after a BNF and we would have gotten pick 3.

Same with Duggan in 2021. Twomey said he was worth a mid first at the time. There was interest. We could have signed him until FA jn 2022, maybe gotten lucky with pick 3 given how FA operates and incentives clubs have to generate high compo (see: Daniher) or traded him in 2021 for a mid first.

Darling still had value in 2021. Melbourne, Freo, Essendon, even GWS would have been interested. Let’s remember that GWS needed a KPF, took Brander as a DFA and gambled on Hogan hit the jackpot.

Even last year, Cal said Sydney would have parted with two firsts for Barrass, but we didn’t seem to give him a nudge and say it might be a win/win/win if you do go to Sydney.

Gaff was a free agent again in 2020, after signing a 2+4 deal.

Gov still had value in 2021 for a club like bulldogs who needed mature KPD talent at the time.

The club itself started talking about “rejuvenating through the draft” in the second half of 2021, however didn’t actually do anything to facilitate additional picks in order to actually rejuvenate.

Lists don’t get as bad as ours without wilfully putting your head in the sand and ignoring the evidence in front of you.

Duggan is a role player, don’t care what Twomey reckons, no team was offering him a contract that would have triggered band 1 compensation. He would be lucky to receive a contract that would trigger band 2 compensation.

Barrass obviously didn’t want to leave. He had every opportunity to ask for a trade last year.

However that fails to address a pretty obvious outcome, had you traded out any of your senior players, or let them walk for compensation.

If you had lost 2 or 3 players that are currently in your best 22 right now, you’d be a hell of a lot worse off right now, than what you currently are.

And you’re talking about shipping out your healthy players, who are there almost every week.

Even then, as every club experiences, draft picks don’t guarantee the kid you select will be successful.


Nor is Simmo the main/only problem.

The problem started with your senior players, and the whole club administration, from the very top down to the coach, backing those senior players.

From that point on, your club needed a clean out from top down, and that still meant Simmo should be one of the last to go.

But most of those senior players need to go as well.

Or the coach and remaining senior players own their choices and try and rectify things, before getting the boot and/or retiring.

 

[Balls In]

The majority of oppo fans thoughts are "they've won a flag more recently than my team so stuff them it was there own fault"

I get it.



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Oppo fans would rightfully question why the AFL needs to bail out a team stupid and arrogant enough to hand over picks 14, 18, 24 and 33 spanning what has turned out to be two super drafts. That's four solid AFL players who would be coming into their prime now, for one player who wanted to come home anyway who is now in his final handful of seasons.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

Duggan is a role player, don’t care what Twomey reckons, no team was offering him a contract that would have triggered band 1 compensation. He would be lucky to receive a contract that would trigger band 2 compensation.

Barrass obviously didn’t want to leave. He had every opportunity to ask for a trade last year.

However that fails to address a pretty obvious outcome, had you traded out any of your senior players, or let them walk for compensation.

If you had lost 2 or 3 players that are currently in your best 22 right now, you’d be a hell of a lot worse off right now, than what you currently are.

And you’re talking about shipping out your healthy players, who are there almost every week.

Even then, as every club experiences, draft picks don’t guarantee the kid you select will be successful.


Nor is Simmo the main/only problem.

The problem started with your senior players, and the whole club administration, from the very top down to the coach, backing those senior players.

From that point on, your club needed a clean out from top down, and that still meant Simmo should be one of the last to go.

But most of those senior players need to go as well.

Or the coach and remaining senior players own their choices and try and rectify things, before getting the boot and/or retiring.

Duggan easily could have gotten as at worst a pick after our 2nd would have been 24 on draft night in 2022.

Whether or not Barrass wanted to leave in 2022, signing him in 2021 before seeing how 2022 played out is mismanagement.

We could have had pick 3 and 24 in 2022 on top of what we already had, for the cost of Barrass and Duggan. Any supporter would sit in a time machine and accept that outcome at that time.

Yes it would have made us worse in 2023, but we were already a 2 win side in 2023 so it’s much of a muchness.

I like how we essentially agree the players are the problem, and yet seem to arrive at different conclusions as to how the club should have acted or assessment of the decisions they did end up committing to.

 

[Lia]

Duggan is a role player, don’t care what Twomey reckons, no team was offering him a contract that would have triggered band 1 compensation. He would be lucky to receive a contract that would trigger band 2 compensation.

Barrass obviously didn’t want to leave. He had every opportunity to ask for a trade last year.

Correct x2. I've also seen some reports on here that suggested that it would be doubtful if Barrass would pass another clubs medical due to his back/neck.

 

[Cuzz09]

Oppo fans would rightfully question why the AFL needs to bail out a team stupid and arrogant enough to hand over picks 14, 18, 24 and 33 spanning what has turned out to be two super drafts. That's four solid AFL players who would be coming into their prime now, for one player who wanted to come home anyway who is now in his final handful of seasons.

reads horrible when read like that

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[bzparkes]

Continually backing in an administration and coach who would have been sacked in any other competitive sports environment.

I don’t need to go through the numbers since bye in 2021, I’m sure you know them.

The absolute audacity to continue to back a coach who has demonstrate for a number of year an inability consistently get effort out of players.

Refusing to generate additional picks in the draft by using levers available over a number of years.

The audacity to come begging to the AFL 6 years after winning a flag.

West Coast, and its supporters need to eat some humble pie, if you want help, it’s not a free lunch. Start acting like a responsible party and make decisions that need to be made.

What are these 'levers' we had to generate 'multiple' picks?

We split our first rounders twice('21 & '22) to generate multiple picks, and have split picks on numerous occasions previously also.

Don't suggest forcing out players for picks because you can't do that to begin with if they don't want to leave.

Also, halfway through '22, Simmo said in a press conference that they needed 'mids, mids, mids' when asked about what they were looking at in the upcoming draft, so they were aware but simply didn't have picks due to the Kelly trade, which were late first rounders anyway and players like Warner wouldn't have been taken at those picks to begin with.

 

[bzparkes]

Oppo fans would rightfully question why the AFL needs to bail out a team stupid and arrogant enough to hand over picks 14, 18, 24 and 33 spanning what has turned out to be two super drafts. That's four solid AFL players who would be coming into their prime now, for one player who wanted to come home anyway who is now in his final handful of seasons.

Geelong did pretty much the exact same thing to get Cameron.

It worked out for them and didn't for us

It also helps that they are continually able to attract free agents for off field 'benefits' as well as the AFL letting them buy a top 10 draft pick.

Having said that, they've burned a heap of first rounders and are fortunate they've been able to find gold later in the draft.

If they didn't nail a number of those later picks, they'd be ****ed

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Reckon we'll ask, and the AFL will laugh in our face.