Simon Hogan

[InnocentBystandr]

Simon is a really intelligent guy, and I sometimes wonder if he thinks too much, which replaces the 'instinct' that good footballers have (see Selwood, Christensen et al).

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I reckon Ling had license to just win the ball and kick in hope to clear the area last year and back his team mates to make a contest up the ground.

That's an interesting comment. I was screaming for that late in 2010.
We were starting to be too predictable.
I wanted us to back in the class we had over the ground to win the contest.

And if you watch the saints final again (I wouldn't) there was a definite change after half time to do this. Which I think got us back into it.

I definitely noticed it with Ling last season too. It was something I really noticed Collingwood in particular do against us in '10.

If they were caught with the ball and unable to get a clean handball away they would drop it and hack it forward. Swan and Thomas were two that I noticed were particularly adept at it and it hurt us. Geelong players in the same situation would always be looking for a handball to a team mate. If there wasn't one they would either get wrapped up and cause a stoppage or would be pinged for holding it.

Fast forward to last year and I noticed Ling doing it quite a bit. In the GF he did it a number of times and it seemed to be advantageous to us more times than not.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It looks like Taylor Hunt will be the preferred stopper. Hogan is naturally more of an outside player and with these types they need to have great foot skills.

Unfortunately I see him in the Kane Tenace basket where more disposals doesn't necessarily mean a better outcome for the team.

He is what?

While I agree with your comments that Tenace disposal issues is a concern with Simon and may lead to him not making it, and Hunt could be the stopper option for us, I can't agree with the bolded. Go listen to Scott's presser, Hogan is as inside and contested as they come, and they REALLY value that, and it's why they've persisted as far as they have, and will give him opportunities this year. I would have thought he's the complete polar opposite of an outside player.

I thought his disposal improved over the course of last night - early on looked really rushed, like he hadn't settled into the game. In the second game seemed a bit more composed with it in hand.

Agree. I've watched a lot of Simon's VFL and I think more so than his disposal the problem is with his decision making, it's hesistant and he looks like he's thinking about too many options and it leads to indecision. He gets away with it at that level because his superior gut running gives him the extra time to hesitate without rushing the kick, but you don't have that time at the top level. I suspect, and really I'm just guessing as none of us are in the inner sanctum, that they are trying to get him to unclutter his mind, make quicker decisions and choose the first option, and what I saw early last night is him overcompensating and rushing the decision and the kick. He seemed to start to find a better balance in the second game, and that's what he needs to do.

What is clear is he is tough, courageous and has the ability to find the ball in spades, and the club values those attributes immensely, and as such he'll be given every opportunity this year. There are valid concerns that are being discussed about whether the disposal is good enough, and time will tell, but he brings so much else to the table that the club will give him the opportunities to try and make it, and we saw enough of those good attributes on friday to believe he can.

 

[foxdog50]

From Geelong website, he was named in the best???? Anyone agree ( as I didn't see the game)

 

[meto]

From Geelong website, he was named in the best???? Anyone agree ( as I didn't see the game)

The blokes on SEN reckoned he was among our best, I guess that's coming from an unbiased scource, so I'd accept that, not having watched the game myself.

 

[catswhiskers]

Yes he played well. Lots of the ball as usual. He does not have the silky skills of some but he can find that pill. Thats the number one requirement.

Love to see some stat on kicking efficiency for the match but i suspect it was quite good even tho he has an ugly action.

 

[marshhhhh]

From Geelong website, he was named in the best???? Anyone agree ( as I didn't see the game)

He got a lot of touches, but I don't necessarily agree.
He severely lacked composure again and just consistently threw the ball on the boot and turned it over.

Well behind T. Hunt and Guthrie for the position he is after IMO.

 

[Daitro]

he started well, had a terrible patch where he couldn't do anything right, which is when the commentators picked up on it, he missed some easy handballs and kicked it into his opponent once, and then he started to come good again towards the end.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Just a reminder to all those big footy posters who are overly critical of players, they improve! Could not believe the coments that were previously directed at Byrnes a few years ago...which seem the most comparable to Hogan....indecisive, poor disposal, etc.... I immensely enjoy seeing these types prove the critics wrong! Like Bynres, Hogan has a few flaws in disposal technique, but that is it....did anyone not see his shotgun handballs in tight that broke away for a few goals...his instincts looked bloody good to me! I have full faith in the lad, he knows how to put himself in the contest and he works hard! Much like Shagga, he will improve out of site with games under his belt, one to watch this year.

For further reference maybe some posters would like to review some of the early comments on Lonergan and Byrnes in particular, would be good for the education.

 

[Turbocat]

Hogan will improve with games but will those games be at Geelong?

I think he may be looking down the barrel at a Prismall situation. The kids that are banking up behind him just look to have more upside. Might be wrong , hope I am , but we seem to have trained up a group that you are going to have to be better than ave just to get a go , then even better than that to hold your place.

The young guys at either end look very tasty for the future. Motlop is a very talented kid. Different than most at the club and we have shown with Trav , we will carry someone if they are talented enough. I love Shroders at attack when on the ball but he has nous as a forward as well. A lot of Chappy in that boy. When he had the ball in his hand , on the run in the forwardline he nailed a goal the way Chappy or SJ would. Its something I doubt Simon could.

On the backline Horlin Smith , Gillie, Guthrie all looked more composed than I suspect SH would in the backline. Smedts didn't even play last night.

Last night Simon kicked a nice goal on the run , even if it just cleared hands of the defender when it should have gone thru with plenty to spare. He will get better the more he plays but Taylor Hunt looks to have gone past him , how long before Guthrie does. He is under pressure big time imo.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

The Prismall comment you make is a fair one Turbo, for in a lot of sides a kid like Hogan who is really good at contested ball as an inside mid and can get it in spades he would be a lock and play 100 games at least. But we have depth, no doubt. I do think some of those coming through have more upside. Hogan might be better now, but does he have less scope to improve? Probably. One thing that goes in his favour is that the coaches really value the things he does well, his contested ball winning, and his defensive work (something Scott has been big on with all the players from day dot) he's had a couple of good NAB games and he's the most ready to go of the fringe guys (aside from Poodle, and both will probably play anyway). All of that equates to him getting opportunities early, from there the rest is up to him. He could crash through ala Lonners or crash out, time will tell.

One thing that goes in Hogan's favour is other than Poodle, none of the other kids can play the role he can. Guthrie's composure and ability to read the play are far more suited to a backline role, Motlop doesn't have the body or the strength in the shoulders to play inside yet, and they seem set to play Smedts in the backline when he does play. All of it comes down to whether they feel they need to replace Ling with another 'pure' midfielder, i.e. an inside mid who wins contested ball and is good defensively, or are they simply going to pick the best 2 or 3 youngsters and structure up differently? If it's the former Hogan is a lot closer to the best 22 than a lot think or realise. We will see.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I think the obvious difference between Prismall and Hogan (besides the fact that kicking was looked at as a strength of Prismall's, rather than a weakness), is that Prismall was absolutely entrenched in the best 22 at the time of his injury and ultimately his departure from Geelong. His last five full games for the club yielded an average of 25.4 possessions, 5.5 marks and 1.2 goals. Would he have made Geelong's best 22 in 2009, considering he returned for Essendon mid-season? He would have been given every opportunity. So the decision to leave Geelong was Prismall's, whereas with Hogan, I reckon the club will make the call.

As for other players going past him, well that may be the case. But, if he continues at his current pace, he'd still be a chance to remain on the list, especially if we lose a few more to retirement. His hardness and ball-winning ability will be valuable to an AFL club in the next few years. Whether it's Geelong or not remains to be seen.

 

[Gogeelong]

Watched the game against Gold Coast several times and is disposal is a concern, no doubt. Can get the ball in close

 

[catswhiskers]

Hogan will improve with games but will those games be at Geelong?

I think he may be looking down the barrel at a Prismall situation.

Inside mids are gold.

Prismall's strength was outside. His kicking was sublime (until something happened at Essendon).

Hogan is an inside mid - I am sure the club understands this. Only goes for a juicy GWS or GCS kid who wants to return to God's own.

 

[Turbocat]

As PO knows , the Prismall ref was not about playing styles.

I hope Hogan makes it but the kids coming thru will make it very tough for him. I watch GC/GWS and its obvious he could be in there best 22 , I watch Geelong Im not sure he is.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

As PO knows , the Prismall ref was not about playing styles.

I hope Hogan makes it but the kids coming thru will make it very tough for him. I watch GC/GWS and its obvious he could be in there best 22 , I watch Geelong Im not sure he is.

Not at the expense of Hunt in any case. I see others ahead of him due to his disposal factor and with the plethora of inside mids at our disposal. I can't see him getting a game unless injury occurs to a couple of midfielders or Chris Scott and the rest of this board know more than me, which probably means he will be a regular in the side.

For those who watch him live regulary what's his work rate off the ball like. just out of interest.

 

[cynical]

should be a solid 50 game player at the bulldogs or saints

don't think hogan is or will be top 4 midfield class

he should get some games this year before being traded for a 3rd rounder to one of the above clubs

 

[meto]

should be a solid 50 game player at the bulldogs or saints

don't think hogan is or will be top 4 midfield class

he should get some games this year before being traded for a 3rd rounder to one of the above clubs

You must be joking, a third rounder 18 year old kid?

Who's gonna get more of the ball around midfield stoppages than Hogan?

Maybe Selwood, and that's it, Selwood needs support as well, it's not just a forwardline or defence thing, we need a gutsy inside player to assist Selwood.
I remember him outpossessing Ablett in one of his senior appearances, everytime Ablett got to the ball there was Hogan already, the kids had problems lately, but it seems like they might be out the way.

To hand him over to the Saints would be a very dangerous thing to do, of all clubs! you'd have to be nuts to let him go this year without really knowing what he can do.

I don't see THunt or Guthrie his equal at the inside midfield game, no way, their talents are broarder, but not with the focus of ability Hogan possesses as an inside mid.
For a young guy, Selwood's got a few miles on the clock, I even think for Joels sake, perserverence is a must.
Not to mention, he's still going to get around 30 possessions a game for us, just tell him to make them all handballs.

 

[nohairandfair]

I wish him well but he's always going to be a "limited" player. Unfortunately his disposal by hand is just as poor as by foot.

He's very fit and a run-with role and stoppage "minder" seems to be the club's preference for him.

THunt's attacking flair and penetrating kicking might be better utilised elsewhere and could benefit Hogan's bid for a regular gig.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I wish him well but he's always going to be a "limited" player. Unfortunately his disposal by hand is just as poor as by foot.

He's very fit and a run-with role and stoppage "minder" seems to be the club's preference for him.

THunt's attacking flair and penetrating kicking might be better utilised elsewhere and could benefit Hogan's bid for a regular gig.

Maybe Hogan's best spot is the sub role where he can come on when the opposition are somewhat tired. His ball winning ability would become an asset and due to a little fatigue he may have more time to make decisions and use the ball.

Hunt is an "animal" and i seen on at least 3 occassions where Ablett jnr just couldn't get passed him or had no room to move. Hunt made him look ordinary in a one on one contest.

 

[darren forssman]

Who's gonna get more of the ball around midfield stoppages than Hogan?

you may not have of heard of them...corey, kelly, bartel, etc.

in fact, i liken him to joel corey, great at getting the ball, not so good at disposing it. not sure you could have them in the same team.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

you may not have of heard of them...corey, kelly, bartel, etc.

in fact, i liken him to joel corey, great at getting the ball, not so good at disposing it. not sure you could have them in the same team.

Corey isn't as bad with his disposal as he once was and it's one area he has improved on significantly, and was a lot better originally(disposal wise) than what Hogan is now.

 

[meto]

you may not have of heard of them...corey, kelly, bartel, etc.

in fact, i liken him to joel corey, great at getting the ball, not so good at disposing it. not sure you could have them in the same team.

I'm referring to the non established seniors, but still, Corey whilst has the ability to play inside footy is generally playing as a linkup winger and likes to run outside with the ball. Gets the ball through reception more times than not.

Kell plays defensive mid/half back, play director, Quarter-back.
Great decision maker and kick. So he's not the same!

Bartell can do it all, but generally goes anywhere we need a lift, forward or back. His role is anywhere.

Hogan for me is the specialist type stoppage player, a bit like Selwood, and who wouldn't want another player in his mould?

Personally I think he's brilliant and has been starved of opportunity for one reason or another.

 

[dazbroncos]

Having watched the GC game a few times now (yes I have too much time on my hands right now ) I will say that some the criticism of Hogan is fair...

That said, he really does seem to get a lot of the contested footy. On a really hot and slippery night in GC he was in and under it alot. His disposal was not always the cleanest whilst under duress - acceptable in my mind for NAB 2 and after his time away from the games last year - and he needs some polish when he gets free and clear with his disposal.

He seems to read the play very well and get to the right position and moves the ball forward - not always Judd esq say in terms of cleanliness - but forward none the less.

I reckon he will go OK this year. I'd much rather a player that gets in and under and to the right spot for the ball and be a bit looser in his disposal than someone who can hit every chest from 40 meters but can't get a touch himself. And his tank seemed pretty healthy too.... running out that game in some pretty oppressive conditions...

Maybe ill eat my words in a few months but write him off at your peril....

I could actually see both Poodle and Hogan playing the same kind of role this year....

GO Catters..

 

[dazbroncos]

The Prismall comment you make is a fair one Turbo, for in a lot of sides a kid like Hogan who is really good at contested ball as an inside mid and can get it in spades he would be a lock and play 100 games at least. But we have depth, no doubt. I do think some of those coming through have more upside. Hogan might be better now, but does he have less scope to improve? Probably. One thing that goes in his favour is that the coaches really value the things he does well, his contested ball winning, and his defensive work (something Scott has been big on with all the players from day dot) he's had a couple of good NAB games and he's the most ready to go of the fringe guys (aside from Poodle, and both will probably play anyway). All of that equates to him getting opportunities early, from there the rest is up to him. He could crash through ala Lonners or crash out, time will tell.

One thing that goes in Hogan's favour is other than Poodle, none of the other kids can play the role he can. Guthrie's composure and ability to read the play are far more suited to a backline role, Motlop doesn't have the body or the strength in the shoulders to play inside yet, and they seem set to play Smedts in the backline when he does play. All of it comes down to whether they feel they need to replace Ling with another 'pure' midfielder, i.e. an inside mid who wins contested ball and is good defensively, or are they simply going to pick the best 2 or 3 youngsters and structure up differently? If it's the former Hogan is a lot closer to the best 22 than a lot think or realise. We will see.

Really good points PO.. spot on.... and I think this is why we will see Hogan this year before Motlop and Smedts...Guthrie I reckon will get a go with Hogan....

Go Catters...