Sinclair

[magpiewarrior]

Gee give the kid a break, there's nothing of him but he still goes where 'angels fear to tread'. He's been given Balls' role of the in and under extractor and he is doing it well, yes I too would like to see him use his disposals better, but by the same token he makes his opponents dispose of the ball, under extreme pressure as well. He's a kid but he is improving every game and I believe the he's performing the role that he is given, well. Don't underestimate the size of the job that the is being given at this stage of his development.

 

[HFF]

Gee give the kid a break, there's nothing of him but he still goes where 'angels fear to tread'. He's been given Balls' role of the in and under extractor and he is doing it well, yes I too would like to see him use his disposals better, but by the same token he makes his opponents dispose of the ball, under extreme pressure as well. He's a kid but he is improving every game and I believe the he's performing the role that he is given, well. Don't underestimate the size of the job that the is being given at this stage of his development.

I don't want to hang shit on a fellow magpie poster but really?

He is not performing Luke Ball's role. That slack is being taken up by Sidebottom, Wellingham and Beams. Not Sinclair.

How are we "underestimating the size of the job he is being given at this stage of his development"? In fact, it's not hard. It's a role that many young players are thrown because of its simplicity. Chase, harrass, run, pressure and lay tackles. It's as basic as it gets. He does pressure well with his pace but the rest of his game has been poo. Unfortunately tackle pressure will only keep you in the side for so long. You need to do more and Sinclair misses far too many easy goals and his disposal/decision making under pressure is a liability. This kind of player in big games is to the detriment of the team.



You must be watching a different game to the rest of us.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

He's been given Balls' role of the in and under extractor and he is doing it well

Wait what?

You sure you're not thinking of another player?

 

[joxstrap]

He has been so close to having a 8 tackle/2 goal type game all year which is exactly why he's in the team. If he keeps the pressure up in the forward line then he's doing his job - if he can add some goals on top then he will be a huge bonus. The manic forward line pressure he brings was there when we won the flag - if he can polish his disposal even 5% or reduce the major scrubber kicks by handballing off then he'll improve heaps. He will get better if he's given more games at the top level - if his goal kicking comes on you'll have people here singing his praises.

 

[blaze036]

Sidebottom is only a few months older than sinclair... age isnt an excuse anymore for those saying "give the kid a break"

 

[Zahki]

He has been so close to having a 8 tackle/2 goal type game all year which is exactly why he's in the team. If he keeps the pressure up in the forward line then he's doing his job - if he can add some goals on top then he will be a huge bonus. The manic forward line pressure he brings was there when we won the flag - if he can polish his disposal even 5% or reduce the major scrubber kicks by handballing off then he'll improve heaps. He will get better if he's given more games at the top level - if his goal kicking comes on you'll have people here singing his praises.

Personally I think he's a liability at the moment. You're right, if he improves then people will get off his back, but I don't think the seniors is where he should be right now, let him develop at his own pace in the VFL. We're still aiming for the premiership right? After our somewhat rocky start to the year it's crucial to get some Ws on the board in the next few weeks and that means playing the best team we can, Sinclair is first in line to be dropped once Thomas/Shaw/Reid come back.

I'm not saying he won't make it, or that he should be delisted, just that his performances havn't made me think he's deserving of his spot in the side, and no 'what ifs' like 'what if he actually kicked those goals?' don't count.

I don't believe in having players in the forward line simply for 'tackling pressure' I didn't believe in it when people used it to argue for why Davis was pulling his weight and I don't believe it for Sinclair. Anyone can run, chase and tackle, that should be expected of ALL players, it's what you bring beyond that that determines your worth to the side.

 

[Pera]

Sidebottom is only a few months older than sinclair... age isnt an excuse anymore for those saying "give the kid a break"

No, but games played at the highest level is.

If you're expecting a 26 y.o mature age rookie to come in (for example Shae Mac) and have immediately more of an impact than a 22 y.o. who has played 50+ games, then you're dreaming son.

He has played half a dozen games. You're probably one of the few who wrote off Ben Reid after 'that' kick against Carlton.

 

[No SPIN]

to the critics - ask yourself a simple question.

Given his impressive overall stats, how would the kid have rated had he kicked the 2 goals?

I suspect very very highly - so clearly the critics have been swayed by the 2 obvious blunders, rather than truly assessing the value of his overall game, which the other stats (including 9 tackles) clearly and unambiguous establish.

Where would he have polled in the ANZAC medal had he kicked the 2 goals - I suspect he would have polled ahead of Zaharakis - enough said.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

to the critics - ask yourself a simple question.

Given his impressive overall stats, how would the kid have rated had he kicked the 2 goals?

I suspect very very highly - so clearly the critics have been swayed by the 2 obvious blunders, rather than truly assessing the value of his overall game, which the other stats (including 9 tackles) clearly and unambiguous establish.

Where would he have polled in the ANZAC medal had he kicked the 2 goals - I suspect he would have polled ahead of Zaharakis - enough said.

If he had kicked the 2 goals, then he'd be doing a hell of a lot better than reality would show, just saying

 

[chestbrah]

We as Collingwood supporters are inherently impatient when it comes to the development of our kids, Ben Reid being a prime example. There is an expectation that one must be a star from the outset, and we disregard the fact that often several years of development and a grounding of roughly 50 AFL games are needed to set a career up. He is not a first rounder, has has yet to play even 10 games. There are enough positives in his corner at the moment, and with experience will come decision making and a little polish.

 

[Scodog10]

Toovey disposal effiency isnt great but it is also only 3% lower then Dale Thomas over his career who would be classed as a good user of the ball and an elite player.

That means nothing! I can state categorically that Thomas gets more than double the contested possessions that Toovey gets. When your under pressure more of the time of course your DE will be lower.

Toovey is a good ordinary footballer however he is definitely a below average user of the ball by foot.

 

[pauly_moss]

to the critics - ask yourself a simple question.

Given his impressive overall stats, how would the kid have rated had he kicked the 2 goals?

I suspect very very highly - so clearly the critics have been swayed by the 2 obvious blunders, rather than truly assessing the value of his overall game, which the other stats (including 9 tackles) clearly and unambiguous establish.

Where would he have polled in the ANZAC medal had he kicked the 2 goals - I suspect he would have polled ahead of Zaharakis - enough said.

And if Hawthorn kicked straight against West Coast they would have won by over 10 goals, if Richmond players all disposed of the ball 10% better they would be undefeated and premiership favourites, simple fact is he didnt kick the goals he needed to kick. He must dipose of the ball better if he is to stay in the side long term simple fact is at the moment he isnt. Tackling is only one aspect of the game and when he turns the ball over it wastes any tackles he may have done because someone else has to win the ball back.

 

[No SPIN]

If he had kicked the 2 goals, then he'd be doing a hell of a lot better than reality would show, just saying

The REALITY as demonstrated by his stats clearly prove he did well - unless of course, as you have done above, think only GOALS count.

 

[pauly_moss]

The REALITY as demonstrated by his stats clearly prove he did well - unless of course, as you have done above, think only GOALS count.

Goals dont count as a forward? Oh a forwards job is to stop goals is it? so confused

 

[No SPIN]

And if Hawthorn kicked straight against West Coast they would have won by over 10 goals, if Richmond players all disposed of the ball 10% better they would be undefeated and premiership favourites, simple fact is he didnt kick the goals he needed to kick. He must dipose of the ball better if he is to stay in the side long term simple fact is at the moment he isnt. Tackling is only one aspect of the game and when he turns the ball over it wastes any tackles he may have done because someone else has to win the ball back.

watch the kids last QTR and come back to me - and as to the examples above are you suggesting that there were no positive for either HAW or RICH in those games

That is the point of my post - selectively using his misses to bag the kid is NOT an objective assessment of the game - the stats however don't lie.

Unless of course you wish to redefine their value as you and the others are very trying hard to do.

 

[No SPIN]

Goals dont count as a forward? Oh a forwards job is to stop goals is it? so confused

FWD pressure doesn't count as a FWD? - I'll defer to every commentator and MM on this. I think We know which side of the argument these guys fall.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

 

[pauly_moss]

A forward primary role is to kick goals.

A Forwards secondary goal should be to assist another player in creating a goal.

If we havent won the ball then a forwards job should be to lock it in.

I am not underestimating the importance of locking a ball in however Sinclair is not doing enough of the primary 2 reasons of being a forward line player at the moment. I used to want Davis in the forward line when he wasnt at his best and wasnt kicking goals due to the pressure he created however he still was creating goals when not kicking them himself.

Sinclair is not far of bing a good contributer but at the moment he is falling short due to his disposal. If he gets this right which he does have the capability of because he showed that he can do that last year. however so far he has not and does not deserve a spot in our side. He does have signs however that he can improve to earn that spot but I believe he shoudl be doing that through the VFL

 

[eddiebankbalance]

The REALITY as demonstrated by his stats clearly prove he did well - unless of course, as you have done above, think only GOALS count.

No, not true. I did think he was good in close, but does hesitates a lot. Could be a young freshie out there with nerves? He certainly wants to get involved, loves his footy - but shit me not, the shots at goal from 20 out are freaking appalling.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

That is the point of my post - selectively using his misses to bag the kid is NOT an objective assessment of the game - the stats however don't lie.

You don't have to be selective to look at Sinclair's misses. That's pretty much all we have to select from.

The argument "what if he'd kicked those two goals?" doesn't wash if the guy has basically never managed to kick accurately for goal. The fact that he's not kicking them is entirely the point.

 

[No SPIN]

You don't have to be selective to look at Sinclair's misses. That's pretty much all we have to select from[/I].

The argument "what if he'd kicked those two goals?" doesn't wash if the guy has basically never managed to kick accurately for goal. The fact that he's not kicking them is entirely the point.

If you measure his entire contribution based on scoring goals, and ignore all his other stats, then most here would consider that a very poor basis for evaluating the kid.

But that's your choice - I prefer a more broad based evaluation, based on stats at least as important as goals - if he was Fevola then maybe you have a case.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

People are missing the point. Sinclair's kicking isn't poor, it's diabolical and to top it off, he makes bad decisions with the ball and he often panicks when he goes near it. What's the point in being good at causing turnovers when you're just going to give it back?

It's all well and good to pressure well but if you're at best below average at everything else then why don't teams hire muscly sprinters? They would be better chasers/tacklers than Sinclair. It's because footballers need to be able to play football.

Before people start kicking and screaming and saying that I hate the guy, I don't. I support him every time he goes near it because he's a Collingwood player, I want us to do well and I admire the effort he puts in. All things being equal though, I just don't think he's anywhere near AFL strandard and other than chasing and tackling, which are important, he really doesn't show any potential that I can see when it comes to actual footballing attributes.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

If you measure his entire contribution based on scoring goals, and ignore all his other stats, then most here would consider that a very poor basis for evaluating the kid.

Pardon me then, I took your comment to mean that you thought people were being selective in only looking at his misses as a subset of the total number of shots at goal Sinclair has had. Not the misses as a subset of everything he does on a football field.

 

[Visions]

That is the point of my post - selectively using his misses to bag the kid is NOT an objective assessment of the game - the stats however don't lie.

No, it's the f*** all of two tenths of almost nothing that he has collectively contributed in the 5 games that he has played this season that has led many to question his ability.

If Collingwood wanted someone who could just pressure and tackle, they could do better than him and just convince a professional athlete to enter the draft and pick them up. As it stands, his disposal is crap and Collingwood have shown better players than him the door.

 

[Breakthelines]

No, it's the f*** all of two tenths of almost nothing that he has collectively contributed in the 5 games that he has played this season that has led many to question his ability.

If Collingwood wanted someone who could just pressure and tackle, they could do better than him and just convince a professional athlete to enter the draft and pick them up. As it stands, his disposal is crap and Collingwood have shown better players than him the door.

Name those better players.......

 

[SuperSub17]

Some of his efforts in the last qtr in particular were outstanding. He laid 9 tackles for the game as well. Loved how he smothered Ricky Dyson and then he kicked it on the full He also turned Fletcher inside out after scores were level late in the last and nearly kicked a crucial goal. No one can question his effort, give the kid a break.