Skippos's 2015 Draft Resource

[borderbarry]

Skippo. from the Saints point of view, we badly need pace in our midfield, so probably an outside mid will be taken with our first pick, which atthis stage I believe will be 5 or 6. Who do you believe would be still there at our pick, and be the best outside or pacy mid? I would expect Parish may be gone by then.

 

[Derrick45]

Skippos, being South Australian I assume you saw a little bit of Jimmy Toumpas as a junior. Do you feel like Partlington is a similar player to Jimmy at the same age? I'm only going off what everyone is writing about him of course, but everything being said about Partlington I feel was also said about Toumpas before he was drafted. Cheers.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Waterman with breakaway speed, I've heard it all now.

 

[Turbocat]

Pick 13 - North Melbourne: Ryan Burton (SA, 31/1/97, Key Forward)
- Gets compared to the Darling/Stringer types but he's very different. More Roughead but still more of a traditional forward. Incredibly smart with leading patterns and a creative field kick with high range. Very much a forward at this stage, size is an issue as is his horrific broken leg.

- Why? North are covered for key forwards for now but Waite and Petrie are ageing and I'm not sold on a Brown/Black/Wood forward line. Need to start preparing for life after these two and now is the time so that the kid is ready when they retire.

Skipp... im interested in your description... More Roughead than Stringer... Not two players id have thought to compare.
Is Burton that sort of 3rd tall forward ..ie Kersten or as you have said clever.. is he more a Menzel ( excuse the Geelong comparisons )

and secondly coming off injury.. just how low could he drop. ... or put it another way...if he was playing in the SA side this year ..better than Francis?

 

[Skippos]

Waterman with breakaway speed, I've heard it all now.

Breakaway speed is perhaps an exaggeration as it wasn't 'speed' but he definitely had the ability to create space forward and laterally of the ball for him to effectively dispose. Most definitely had a burst - players like Priddis and Sheed who are equally slow and one paced don't.

 

[Skippos]

Skippo. from the Saints point of view, we badly need pace in our midfield, so probably an outside mid will be taken with our first pick, which atthis stage I believe will be 5 or 6. Who do you believe would be still there at our pick, and be the best outside or pacy mid? I would expect Parish may be gone by then.

5 or 6? GC, Carlton, Brisbane, Melbourne below? Anyone else? I reckon it's 4-5 depending on how Brisbane/Melbourne go late season. Top 3 look pretty solid that said Parish is a good chance to push them. At this stage I'd have Parish going 4 so if the cards fall your way he might just be there. Failing that, it's Partington, Tucker and Clarke - all of whom have some real ?s. Partington the productive one but perhaps jack of all trades, master of none. Tucker hasn't produced as expected and seems to be the same or even a lesser player than last year and is very very outside and Clarke perhaps the least known quantity and has only had 1/4 elite games in the champs but too as a lot to like about him.

Skippos, being South Australian I assume you saw a little bit of Jimmy Toumpas as a junior. Do you feel like Partlington is a similar player to Jimmy at the same age? I'm only going off what everyone is writing about him of course, but everything being said about Partlington I feel was also said about Toumpas before he was drafted. Cheers.

I really, really didn't like Toumpas as a junior. In general I think for outside mids you want a strong mixture of pace, accumulation, skill and composure and I'm not sure Jimmy ever had that. I never understood the hype like I never understood the Day hype. Then again I also never understood the Grundy hype and I was wrong there.

I don't feel like Partington has the same weaknesses as Toumpas had/has. Toumpas had the accumulation and work rate but I feel Partington's running patterns are more damaging. I also feel like Partington's inside game and clearance game is far more developed and under pressure Partington makes better decisions and retains that composure. Toumpas's biggest issue is how he panics under pressure; in space he's always been a solid or better user of the ball.

Having seen them both - I feel like if Partington doesn't make it it'd be for different reasons to Toumpas. The mental side of football is costing Toumpas but i feel like Partington's better in that regard.

 

[Diehardbomber]

Do you think that there is a reason why his tackle and uncontested mark numbers have been so low over the U18 Champs? Really talented and a smooth mover, but for a rebounding half back you would expect that at least his uncontested and intercept mark numbers would be around 5-6 a game.

Gollo I've seen all 4 of his games and most of the SA trials, he can tackle and intercept. The large grounds and structure of the U18 champs doesn't present a lot of congestion in the oppositions forward line, hence tackle numbers are down. I'd expect if you reviewed most defenders in the champs their tackle numbers would be well down against their SANFL, WAFL & TAC numbers. Brenton Phillips stated on the SANFL web page today that the coaches have been happy with Bonner's defensive improvements over he past 2 games. From what ive seen he is shutting down his opponent and for mine hasn't been beaten so far whilst providing great offensive attack when SA has the footy. 9 x R50 & 5 x I50 from last Sunday v VC.

As a doggies supporter is Bonner the type of player you are looking for?

 

[Skippos]

Skipp... im interested in your description... More Roughead than Stringer... Not two players id have thought to compare.
Is Burton that sort of 3rd tall forward ..ie Kersten or as you have said clever.. is he more a Menzel ( excuse the Geelong comparisons )

and secondly coming off injury.. just how low could he drop. ... or put it another way...if he was playing in the SA side this year ..better than Francis?

Don't think Roughead and Stringer are all too different players in terms of style. Both are undersized key forwards with smart leading patterns, incredible power and force and a top tier ground level game combined with the ability to pinch hit through the middle well. Roughead a better and more complete player but there are certainly similarities.

I'd call Burton more a Menzel than a Kersten but I'd probably lean closer to neither. Burton I feel has more of a dominance to his game such that he could command the 2nd forward slot, perhaps even #1 forward a bit like Pav is at Freo. He leads incredibly well and competes hard. Like Kersten he's an excellent shot for goal and like Menzel he's a bit creative and smart inside the arc. But I'd probably compare him more to a Pavlich or a Roughead (but obviously without the guarantee to reach that level) than I would a Kersten/Menzel type.

Regarding his injury, I'm unsure. I think clubs are switching on to the fact that we can use the bottom age year as an appropriate sample and not let players slide given the success of players who have slid due to injury - Selwood, Lever, Cutler, Robertson and McGrath come to mind as examples of that. If it was an ACL, I'd still think of him as a first round player. But his injury is different - I'd put it on the same tier as a bad navicular - there's a lot of uncertainty about how it'll impact him long term. He not only missed his draft year but half of his bottom age year too. It's an 18 month injury such was the damage he did. Often players can't fully recover from a compound fracture - Nathan Bock is an example. But often players are back by now. He's clearly had a complication or two - there'll be mental demons for him but also a long rehabilitation - when the leg is fully healed he's still probably 6-10 weeks away as he'll have to start reloading it and building a fitness base. I've no background in injuries or AFL clubs but I wouldn't be surprised if the uncertainties here did cause him to drop. That said, it didn't for Jake Stringer who had a similar injury.

If he was playing this year - nah, not better than Francis. Perhaps more dominant down forward but Francis as a package is better. Slightly taller, a better read of the ball in flight and a better contested grab, more versatile, a better field kick and far better on the agility front. Burton just has clean hands, an excellent set shot and better leading patterns than Francis. He'd probably be a slightly better forward but Francis has him covered everywhere else.

 

[Turbocat]

Thank Skipp. They made a comment tonight about Roughead bing a kpp thats probably better on the ground so .. perhaps your right.

Cant remember but Varcoe slipped a long way on his foot issue that was quite bad. Can pick up a bargain or washout. Pies are probably wonder about that atm

 

[Gollo]

I disagree with nearly everything you've said here.

Breakaway speed isn't about shorter steps or pure acceleration, it's about power. Alec Waterman last year was 183/89 and an absolute plodder, but has the breakaway speed - not because of short steps but because of power. Very rarely, especially at the highest level, do you get a free path out of traffic. You've got to burst through opponents. Waterman had a powerful enough first step and enough weight behind him to break that pressure and touch as well as the low centre of gravity to not be pushed off his path. The best burst playees may have speed, but it's far more about the core strength, first step, balance, centre of gravity and power/force. Gresham doesn't have that pure strength and power to burst like that. I suspect his ability to breakaway is more due to the weaker juniors and less defensive pressure and congestion applied at this level and its not something I expect to translate fully to afl level.

... This is also why, out in the open, players like Gresham and Daniel won't burn players in a 80m run on the wing, rather, they'll accelerate faster away from them over a 10-15m distance.

I agree that part of the reason his breakaway speed looks so good is because of the lower competition, but I think you misread what I intended to write (poor word choice on my part). I realise that to break open a pack involves power, but acceleration away from a pack comes with some power also. Jade Gresham, for his size, actually has decent power and core strength, not amazing but decent. This is what helps him break out of packs, but what I meant to write was about how they get away from packs, not just how they break the packs. You'll see on my last sentence that I said that acceleration helps a smaller player push away from a chaser over a shorter distance, because they will have, generally, better acceleration. This is my understanding of breakaway speed, and I can see that we have some conflicting opinions. I doubt I will be able to convince you of my reasoning, and vice versa. Anyway, each to their own.

 

[Gollo]

Gollo I've seen all 4 of his games and most of the SA trials, he can tackle and intercept. The large grounds and structure of the U18 champs doesn't present a lot of congestion in the oppositions forward line, hence tackle numbers are down. I'd expect if you reviewed most defenders in the champs their tackle numbers would be well down against their SANFL, WAFL & TAC numbers. Brenton Phillips stated on the SANFL web page today that the coaches have been happy with Bonner's defensive improvements over he past 2 games. From what ive seen he is shutting down his opponent and for mine hasn't been beaten so far whilst providing great offensive attack when SA has the footy. 9 x R50 & 5 x I50 from last Sunday v VC.

As a doggies supporter is Bonner the type of player you are looking for?

Thanks for clearing that up, and yes, Bonner is the perfect player for the Dogs ATM. We need another running outside midfielder/half-back to compliment players like Jack Macrae, Bob Murphy and Easton Wood. He's also a good size and has great skill.

 

[happydays152125]

Thoughts on hinchliffe? Has he got much chance

 

[Skippos]

Thoughts on hinchliffe? Has he got much chance

I think he's a reasonable chance. Clubs seem partial to picking players without a strong background in the game, such as McKenna last year. They seem to hope that their natural talent will be fostered I'm the system and that they'll develop quickly. Hinchcliffe while a little older does look a good player and one I could see picked later on.

 

[Skippos]

Did you watch his game against vic metro?
Looked good

I missed it as I went to the SA game instead. I've got footage though so I'm watching it this evening after the AFL game. I'll report back afterwards with my thoughts.

 

[Skippos]

Riley Bonner v WA

Wayne Milera v WA

Hugh Haysman v WA

Jadyn Brind v WA

 

[borderbarry]

I missed it as I went to the SA game instead. I've got footage though so I'm watching it this evening after the AFL game. I'll report back afterwards with my thoughts.

5 or 6? GC, Carlton, Brisbane, Melbourne below? Anyone else? I reckon it's 4-5 depending on how Brisbane/Melbourne go late season. Top 3 look pretty solid that said Parish is a good chance to push them. At this stage I'd have Parish going 4 so if the cards fall your way he might just be there. Failing that, it's Partington, Tucker and Clarke - all of whom have some real ?s. Partington the productive one but perhaps jack of all trades, master of none. Tucker hasn't produced as expected and seems to be the same or even a lesser player than last year and is very very outside and Clarke perhaps the least known quantity and has only had 1/4 elite games in the champs but too as a lot to like about him.



Skippos, my reason for saying the Saints with picks 5 or 6 are, I can see Essendon who are one place above us dropping further this season and ending up bottom 4. I expect one of the teams who are below us at the moment to go past us but I dont know who it will be. If we end up with a better pick than 5 or 6 I will be happy.

 

[happydays152125]

I missed it as I went to the SA game instead. I've got footage though so I'm watching it this evening after the AFL game. I'll report back afterwards with my thoughts.

Alright no worries

 

[HBF]

I would wager almost anything that if Weitering is available Carlton will take him and not Parish.

 

[lzimmer]

Hey Skippos, how do you rate Galucci so far compared to what you saw from Parish this time last year?

 

[Skippos]

I would wager almost anything that if Weitering is available Carlton will take him and not Parish.

I agree. Schache would complicate that though.

 

[Skippos]

Hey Skippos, how do you rate Galucci so far compared to what you saw from Parish this time last year?

Parish this time last year was better than Galucci. That said, has Parish developed at the rate I'd have hoped? Probably not. Last year he was great relative to everyone else and this year he's as great. With some improvement over the next 12 months Galucci could end up a better prospect than Parish is now, but I reckon it's unlikely.

 

[HBF]

I agree. Schache would complicate that though.

Yeah he would.
I think either way, we'll take one of them rather than a midfielder, even one as good as Parish.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Yeah he would.
I think either way, we'll take one of them rather than a midfielder, even one as good as Parish.

I'm a huge Parish fan, still don't think you will look back and kick yourself for missing him.

 

[HBF]

I'm a huge Parish fan, still don't think you will look back and kick yourself for missing him.

Kinda my feelings as well.
With the top end KPP quality this year Carlton have to take one of them.
Especially if Henderson leaves.

 

[DraftGuru_]

Yeah. Carlton need to get a KPP and this is the draft to get one. Midfielders can be picked up in future drafts but you really need to get a gun KPP early in a rebuild