Opinion So What Is Player Development?

[ESKIE]

No disrespect intended Thy but I guess that once people have aired their opinions there may not be too much to add.

Again the term "player development" is used quite readily yet we may not really know what it all entails. Kudos for the thread..........don't stop now.

Don't burst his bubble ...

 

[smashbox gill]

Player development is what Geelong and Sydney do. Im not sure what they do but we need to copy it.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

No disrespect intended Thy but I guess that once people have aired their opinions there may not be too much to add.

Huh, they can repeat them ad nauseam just as with any other thread.

 

[mediumsizered]

This is it for mine.

Can someone with more knowledge please inform me whether or not the Northern Blues/CFC relationship is geared towards preparing the senior listed players specifically for senior football, or is there some trade off between what MM wants and what the NB need to do to get a win?

If not, sayonara.

I understand there are differences between the stand alone VFL teams and the aligned teams, would just like a clearer picture of what ours is.

Nutrition/recovery/conditioning etc….in this day and age I reckon almost all clubs are vey close to one another (Melb being an exception, my opinion)…therefore I think the way the lads that aren't playing seniors are handled is so bloody important.

From my observations, prior to this season NB were fiercely trying to maintain some level of independence from the CFC which meant the balance between preparing the senior players specifically for senior football & having an eye on finals success was not right.

With NB conceding ground at the end of last season, allowing the CFC to have more control over the football side of the club, the players are now being prepared for senior action first & results come second.

I had some question marks on Luke Webster as coach of NB early in the season, but as the season progressed he really grew into the role & you could see his focus was on making sure the CFC listed players were playing a similar game to what they would be playing in the seniors. He gave them opportunities in positions other than what they had been used to, in line with the flexibility Malthouse was seeking from the players & you could generally see that although winning was still important, it was not the be all & end all for Webster.

The problem still faced by CFC with the NB alignment, as I commented on during the season, is the chasm in talent between the CFC listed players & the NB listed players (Lambert & Gianfagna excepted). If this can be overcome, the alignment with NB will be as close to having our own VFL team, without having our own VFL team.

 

[Aphrodite]

Terrific thread and it's a shame it can't last for too long.

Don't recall at looking forward to so many considered opinions before.

Nice work to one and all. ...................O.K. and in particular to the O.P.

Why is that Harks?

Personally I think it's a great thread and a good point for discussion.

Well done thylacine60

 

[Blue Flame]

No disrespect intended Thy but I guess that once people have aired their opinions there may not be too much to add.

Again the term "player development" is used quite readily yet we may not really know what it all entails. Kudos for the thread..........don't stop now.

I intend to air many differing opinions.

 

[Blue Flame]

And I am sure it is plajer development

 

[SBYM]

From my observations, prior to this season NB were fiercely trying to maintain some level of independence from the CFC which meant the balance between preparing the senior players specifically for senior football & having an eye on finals success was not right.

With NB conceding ground at the end of last season, allowing the CFC to have more control over the football side of the club, the players are now being prepared for senior action first & results come second.

I had some question marks on Luke Webster as coach of NB early in the season, but as the season progressed he really grew into the role & you could see his focus was on making sure the CFC listed players were playing a similar game to what they would be playing in the seniors. He gave them opportunities in positions other than what they had been used to, in line with the flexibility Malthouse was seeking from the players & you could generally see that although winning was still important, it was not the be all & end all for Webster.

The problem still faced by CFC with the NB alignment, as I commented on during the season, is the chasm in talent between the CFC listed players & the NB listed players (Lambert & Gianfagna excepted). If this can be overcome, the alignment with NB will be as close to having our own VFL team, without having our own VFL team.

Fantastic reply. Many thanks….

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

This could be the first time in BF history that the thread title has been the answer to the opening post.

• home-life & lifestyle
• psych/emotional issues
• the fine line between pushing forward & pulling back
• tolerating failure/validating successes
• understanding one template doesn't fit all
• mentoring
• motivation

"....What is Player Development"

 

[Sublime]

Player Development is also an excuse used to blame the club for someone who just wasn't up to it. Unfortunately there are some players who look fantastic playing against kids their own age. They're in the top 1-10% of all kids in their age and just can't take that next step up against men. It happens at every club regardless of how much player support they have.

That said, there has been something lacking along the road for us i think. Can't pinpoint exactly where though, without knowing more about the inner workings of the club. They've just looked much more hesitant than some other clubs 18 year old coming in, perhaps the personality traits of our preferred selections?

 

[Beer n Skittles]

One thing missing from this list is; allowing players to play in the position most suited to them and their attributes.

Mick has a great record and is obiously a pretty good coach in most ways, but one thing that I think might let him down is his ego. I'll cite 2 examples:

1. Andrew Walker: I know he had a pretty good year off the half back flank and many here think that he was a revelation. But consider, how many games did we lose this year for the want of having a player who is accurate in front of goals? Yes, we might have lost a little down back, but the change in structure and effectiveness in the forward line might have been worth it.
2. Chris Yarran: When moved to the HBF, Yarran was a revelation. He was given license to run and create and seemed to revel in it. Along comes Mick and moves him back into the "three amigo" forward structure that hadn't worked previously and didn't work at all this year.

Why make these changes? Was it just because the original moves were seen as Ratten's "masterstrokes" and Mick wanted to be seen to be "putting his stamp on the team"? When it became clear that things weren't working with this arrangement, why not switch back?

I disagree that these changes were due to an ego problem.

When Mick took over he was asked how he'd turn Carlton into a premiership contender. He answered with "defense first", as you'd expect from him.
IMO he wasn't just talking about his typical gameplan, he was also literally saying that he'd put together a premiership worthy backline first.

Yarran adds rebound but wasn't seen as defending well enough, Walker can do both. The issues with the forward line were just the result of not papering over the cracks in the list & spreading the talent thin across the ground.

 

[OldBlueFan]

I disagree that these changes were due to an ego problem.

Yarran adds rebound but wasn't seen as defending well enough, Walker can do both. The issues with the forward line were just the result of not papering over the cracks in the list & spreading the talent thin across the ground.

Obviously we'll never know his motivations, but putting a player capable of kicking (accurately) 50+ goals in a season into the forward line, hardly constitutes "papering over cracks". And as far as the defensive capabilities of the two, I can think of several instances (especially in the finals) where AW's defensive capabilities were found wanting. In fact, throwing a 50+ goal per year foward into the backline is much more of a "papering over cracks" move. Why not look to develop another player to perform the role asked of AW?

The thread is about development. CY showed that he thoroughly enjoyed his role as a running defender and was far more effective there than in the forward line. So, development had started. Then, instead of continuing that development and letting him work on his defensive game, he was swithced back to a purely attacking role. One that he'd struggled in previously and also that didn't work structurally with 2 other small forwards playing the same role.

 

[AlecDuncan]

What do you think we do well, do less well? Go your hardest.

• Self-discipline. Tick. Hasn't been a problem like it was a decade ago.
• It's the professional's job to have an opinion, to give it without sugar-coating, and to take it the same - brutal honesty. I'm not in a position to know, but I suspect our guys are full-time back-slappers.
• Turning kids full of self-doubt into determined, ruthless winners - Juddification. Meh.
• Honing the basic skills of the game under simulated pressure - especially goal-kicking. Meh.

 

[BM123]

• Self-discipline. Tick. Hasn't been a problem like it was a decade ago.
• It's the professional's job to have an opinion, to give it without sugar-coating, and to take it the same - brutal honesty. I'm not in a position to know, but I suspect our guys are full-time back-slappers.
• Turning kids full of self-doubt into determined, ruthless winners - Juddification. Meh.
• Honing the basic skills of the game under simulated pressure - especially goal-kicking. Meh.

Juddification sounds like a good term.

 

[Franc de Borges]

I disagree that these changes were due to an ego problem.

When Mick took over he was asked how he'd turn Carlton into a premiership contender. He answered with "defense first", as you'd expect from him.
IMO he wasn't just talking about his typical gameplan, he was also literally saying that he'd put together a premiership worthy backline first.

Yarran adds rebound but wasn't seen as defending well enough, Walker can do both. The issues with the forward line were just the result of not papering over the cracks in the list & spreading the talent thin across the ground.

I agree that this was Mick's reasoning, and there's certainly some merit to it as Walker had a great year (though Yarran less so), but it can't be denied that we've lost a lot from the forward line without him. A capable HBF is easier to find than a reliable forward.

Personally I think Yarran is as close to a natural wingman as you'll see and should be played there.

 

[Loramarthalas]

Although it's happening less frequently now, it still seems like we rag-dolled a lot. Sydney twice this year did it to us. So did Fremantle, and Collingwood in the second game particularly. The Hawks usually do it to us, but this year we seemed to be a bit more ready for it.

Physical development would appear to be an area that we have fallen behind in. I know we have addressed it over the last couple of years, and it was noticeably better this year, but we are still a fair way off the top sides. Adding players like Tuohy and Cachia and Bell, and with more size on Robinson and Kruezer as well has helped.

Does it come back to drafting? Or do we put too little emphasis on building big, strong players?

Chicken and egg.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Obviously we'll never know his motivations, but putting a player capable of kicking (accurately) 50+ goals in a season into the forward line, hardly constitutes "papering over cracks".

It is weakening a capable backline to strengthen a poor forward line. That's my definition of papering over the cracks.

And as far as the defensive capabilities of the two, I can think of several instances (especially in the finals) where AW's defensive capabilities were found wanting. In fact, throwing a 50+ goal per year foward into the backline is much more of a "papering over cracks" move. Why not look to develop another player to perform the role asked of AW?"

I'd suggest it's more building a solid defense as a foundation upon which you build the rest of the team. I guess Mick sees Walker as being able to improve his defensive side, & doesn't see that as much in Yarran.
In the end I think Mick started to feel the pressure & moved Hendo forward, but leaving the forward line exposed before that allowed him to identify deficiencies & then target the right recruits.

The thread is about development. CY showed that he thoroughly enjoyed his role as a running defender and was far more effective there than in the forward line. So, development had started. Then, instead of continuing that development and letting him work on his defensive game, he was swithced back to a purely attacking role. One that he'd struggled in previously and also that didn't work structurally with 2 other small forwards playing the same role.

Yarran was fantastic under Ratten where it was our spread vs the oppositions zone. Yarran's ability to carry the ball 20m through traffic then hit a target 50m away makes him the perfect HBF for carving through a zone.
Under Mick his creativity at HB would be wasted anyway, where you kick is already pre determined.

 

[Wickzki]

Great thread, Thy.

I'll work on a solid answer from my former employment perspective - though it could be quite wordy. I'll start with this...

1. It begins with having a strong, positive, healthy culture at your club long, long before the recruitment of a specific player comes into play.

This is where we have had our greatest downfall to date. Our culture was not a good one. Too many people who should have been in positions of authority (their job title dictates this, but their own professionalism and the manner in which they conducted themselves did not match -- it may not have been anything they did but rather what they allowed to happen happen) allowed too many shenanigans to happen - and if anybody thinks that Fev was the only bad egg you're a fool - he was just the most extroverted and probably the most out of control due to his addictions. The bottom line is if you don't have it at step one you can't have it at all.

Thankfully Mick has turned this around somewhat (about as much as someone can within a twelve month period). I disagree with some of his coaching philosophies - think some are out dated - but his insistence upon a strong culture and more importantly the knowledge and determination to bring about that culture is what this club sorely needed.

I'll add a lot more to this though.

 

[Blue since 72]

If this can be overcome, the alignment with NB will be as close to having our own VFL team, without having our own VFL team.

Definitely think this is a critical piece in terms of fast tracking the players ability to jump straight into the senior side and know the way the team will be playing.

This provides a better opportunity for the player to perform his role and flow on effects like gaining self confidence, other players showing confidence in said player and looking to use him during a game and the respect of senior team mates cannot be understated.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I believe that the guys need to develop as men before they can develop as players. The way that the youngsters are integrated into the team is really important, and they'll look to the seniors for guidance regarding interaction with each other, dedication, levels of commitment etc.

A lot of the time these kids are 18 when they're drafted. They might have had trouble getting a girlfriend previously, and now they're considered 'catches' by a lot of girls out there. They're also on pretty good coin for their age and some, depending on personality, will be vulnerable to negative influences at this time.

A good foundation and integration into the team at this stage is critical. Once a good path has been laid for them, and they've been given the resources for success, a lot of it is up to them.

 

[HBF]

I know that this is something that the club is working towards improving. They've created a relationship with the hotel I work for where we run cooking classes for the younger kids, with a few of the senior players in attendance each class. The idea is to teach them how to cook for themselves, making nutritional food and not junk, as well as a team building tool.

When I was speaking to the club reps about it they said that they'd identified that the new recruits weren't as supported as they should be when transitioning into the team, so it's a positive step forward.

Whilst we know the club has its faults, what is terrific to hear is that we're not just sitting on our hands doing nothing - we're being proactive and hopefully trying to become a better club all round. Whilst it's disappointing we're not leading the way in this regard, we can at least recognise the club are always looking at ways to improve itself.

 

[Blue since 72]

I believe that the guys need to develop as men before they can develop as players. The way that the youngsters are integrated into the team is really important, and they'll look to the seniors for guidance regarding interaction with each other, dedication, levels of commitment etc.

A lot of the time these kids are 18 when they're drafted. They might have had trouble getting a girlfriend previously, and now they're considered 'catches' by a lot of girls out there. They're also on pretty good coin for their age and some, depending on personality, will be vulnerable to negative influences at this time.

A good foundation and integration into the team at this stage is critical. Once a good path has been laid for them, and they've been given the resources for success, a lot of it is up to them.

Agreed.

And the quickest way for a young draftee to help themselves integrate with the wider team is to keep any dickhead tendancies firmly in check, and work hard in the gym and on the track. Earn respect as the cliche goes.

Show the coach and the players you're fair dinkum, watch and listen until you find your place in the team and the type of characters who will become your friends at the club.

Draftees certainly need to feel welcomed but it's incumbent on them to understand they've entered a very tough job environment and that it will essentially be their induction into manhood and their development is as much about their own commitment to the club as the club's to them.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Personally, I think we need to adopt a much more holistic view to just about everything we do at the club. It has all seems a bit piecemeal and ad hoc, particularly with the coaching staff and the Northern Blues.

It as if different parts of the club were all on different pages, had different agendas and goals, and this obviously filters through and manifests as mediocrity.

Things need to be simplified; why do Carlton exist? To win premierships. It's that simple. EVERY aspect of the club should be focused, and unified to achieving this goal. Every employee, from the cleaner to the Captain to the President should be focused on this single thing. They should ALL be on the same page.

We need to get rid of the Northern Blues and have a stand alone reserves team that serves to groom new recruits into senior stars.

We also need a cultural overhaul - FROM THE TOP DOWN. I love sticks, but he's just coasting. He's not pro-active or innovative. We need a strong President with a singular vision, and who can sell that vision to the club, the players and the supporters and have everyone buy into it.

It saddens me to say, that from the halcyon days of the '80's, when we were clearly the dominant force, we have really slipped back to be a middle of the road club. We seem to lack drive and energy at the top, and we certainly don't innovate.

Whilst the above rant certainly isn't specifically about development, I feel that it is all linked. We're just plodding along as a club as a whole, and ergo, our development is at about the same pace.

Vision

Innovation

Culture

Leadership

Premierships

 

[The Toad]

I'm just writing on this because Thy-Man started this thread.

Fricken awesome.

 

[thylacine60]

Me too, Froggy...