Some List Analysis. Inviting comment.....

[Bigness]

With season 2008 nearing an end I thought I would analyse our list in terms of the position each player on our list plays. I wanted to identify where we need to draft to fill needs of the future. I have put down players in their position to show what coverage we have across every line. It's obviously subject to change with some players able to play multiple positions but each player has been put down in the position they have most often played to date. Reid and Anthony are the only 2 that have been picked in muliple positions.

italics = means unlikely to be around next year for what ever reason.

Interested in people's thoughts but I don't want it to descend into an arguement about Alan Didak, Kerr or Jonathon Brown.

FB H Shaw Brown Goldsac
Toovey Wakelin Cox
Presti Anthony

CHB Clarke Maxwell O'Biren
Lonie Luke Casey-Leigh S. Reed
Isles Thoolen

C Pendlebury Burns Lockyer
Johnson Wellingham Cook
Barham Dyas

HF Didak Cloke Thomas
McCaffer Reid Egan

FF Davis Rocca Medhurst
Dick Dawes Anthony
Rusling
Reid

Foll Fraser O'Bree Swan
Bryan Stanley
Wood R Shaw
Holland


From this I have believe that Centre half back/ Key defensive is our biggest concern. I am talking about the ability to play on a Roughhead or Franklin, Fevloa etc. Brown is quality no doubt but he's young and needs more support.

I conclude that..

The following are done and dusted. Thanks for memories, you've been loyal servants....

Wakelin
Johnson
R shaw
Lonie
Holland
Didak (obviously subject to club;s decision)


The following must be given one more year to provide experience, leadership and coverage, if they all want to continue.....

Burns
Prestigiacomo
O'Bree
Rocca (to a lesser extent)


We need to draft in 2008......

4 midfielders
1 key defensive
1 ruckman

That's six picks to replace the blokes above. Best available rookies in any position should be taken. No obvious need.


My other conclusions....

1. Despite their short comings, Isles, Egan, toovey will all be retained
2. We are well covered for forwards of all size, shapes and dimensions
3. We are well covered for medium and small defenders
4. There are big opportunities for Wellingham, Cook, Stanley, McCarthy and Barham to claim a spot in the middle
5. We don't need Jonathon Brown. Plenty of tall forwards.
6. Despite him copping a hiding on this board, Maxwell's position is pretty safe unless Thoolen and Casey-Leigh come on quicker than anyone expects.

 

[TheMightyPies]

2008 nearing an end

We still got finals to win.

 

[Dave The Man]

We need to draft in 2008......

4 midfielders
1 key defensive
1 ruckman

That's six picks to replace the blokes above. Best available rookies in any position should be taken. No obvious need.


Those Egan is Gone


.

I agree with That, We do need Mids. Those I would put needs for a Ruckman ahead of a Key Defensive Player

 

[AsianWithAFro]

I dont understand why everyone is saying Wakes is done his been good from this year surely you'd keep him on to at least educated the kids. I reckon it's Rocca's last year and R.Shaw will defiantly stay.

 

[Bigness]

I dont understand why everyone is saying Wakes is done his been good from this year surely you'd keep him on to at least educated the kids. I reckon it's Rocca's last year and R.Shaw will defiantly stay.

I'd probably agree with you on Wakes. There is a spot for him some weeks, depending on match ups. I had him down as a departure as he said 07 was going to be his last year, but they squeezed another out of him. Just not sure if he would then go for another. Wait and see

 

[TheMightyPies]

key defender and some mids is what i think we need

 

[Lockyer24]

Agreed.
Midfielders x 3 (at least)
Key back x 1
Back Pocket x 1 (although I do not know where you find these mythical short people)

Happy for Burns and Presti to stay. Presti and Brown might form a nice dour FB CHB combo?

I don't think Wakes has it in him sorry. Rocca can stay if he wants, although I wont mind him being phased out.
O'Bree has another 2 years at least and will be good for depth.

Rhyce Shaw has to go for mine. Ben Johnson I would give a 1 year contract and demand the best pre season he has ever had.

Didak only tradable if a decent 1st rounder is offered. Otherwise keep - likelihood him staying is 85% IMO.

Holland and Stanley would be very close to chopping block too I reckon.

Last of all I can't wait for Brad Dick to return!

 

[Bigness]

Agreed.
Midfielders x 3 (at least)
Key back x 1
Back Pocket x 1 (although I do not know where you find these mythical short people)

Happy for Burns and Presti to stay. Presti and Brown might form a nice dour FB CHB combo?

I don't think Wakes has it in him sorry. Rocca can stay if he wants, although I wont mind him being phased out.
O'Bree has another 2 years at least and will be good for depth.

Rhyce Shaw has to go for mine. Ben Johnson I would give a 1 year contract and demand the best pre season he has ever had.

Didak only tradable if a decent 1st rounder is offered. Otherwise keep - likelihood him staying is 85% IMO.

Holland and Stanley would be very close to chopping block too I reckon.

Last of all I can't wait for Brad Dick to return!

I have to disagree on Stanley. I think he will be given a chance again next year. Holland is gone though yes

 

[Dale Didak #134]

Back Pocket x 1 (although I do not know where you find these mythical short people)

Perhaps a Mitch Farmer, or Ed Lower should Didak be traded?

 

[sirlothie]

You don't draft back pockets... you draft a midfielder and if he doesn't pan out in terms of speed and endurance you try to turn him into a back pocket. Back pocket is a learning experience position I reckon anyway, noone over 23 should call themself a back pocket unless your a gun back pocket like Andy Collins and Gary Ayres were but the days of specialist back pockets are over.

At the very least, draft a half back flanker like Goldsack is naturally a flanker but is good in the pocket too because the pocket is easier than the flank. Less room to cover.

The last gun back pocket was Gavin Wanganeen but if you are a good player you're too valuable to be left hiding in the back pocket. Groom Iles, Stanley, Barham etc. down there.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I think its still pretty open as to who stays and goes next year.

I dont think you can build an argument that Egan, Isles and Toovey will stay when Rhyce Shaw goes.

I suspect Toovey is being 'fattened up' for trade. Egan may well stay if Didak goes (particuarly given effort on the w/e) but I think Isles is going. May well get a VFL spot.

Would like to see Wakes stay but it really is a choice between he and Presti and Presti has the advantage of age.

Johnson will definately go but think OBree should go with him and Dutchy should be retained as you will stand need hard bodies for later in the year. A fit Holland still represents value.

Think your view on key defensive posts is interesting. Must assume Rocca will stay so up front you have Rocca, Dawes, Cloke and Rusling. Suspect next year Anthony will go back with Brown and Reid will be trained up as a floater.

 

[well left]

You'd love to be able to ask Hine a few questions and then you would know where we stand with our list:

Do they see Goldsack as KP given he is 193cm or will he be a flanker?
What role do they think Scott Reed, Thoolen and Casey-Leigh will play at AFL Level?
Is there the potential for Ben Reid to go back as a CHB?

If we do draft another KPB this year I think we will have our answer. If not, we must be happy to think one of these will step up along with Brown, Anthony and O'Brien.

I'd like to see us draft another ruck and if the rookie list is extended this year due to GC17 coming on board then maybe rookie another as well.

The rest should be used on mids and one of Lockyer24's short people if they can be found.....

 

[sirlothie]

You'd love to be able to ask Hine a few questions and then you would know where we stand with our list:

Do they see Goldsack as KP given he is 193cm or will he be a flanker?
What role do they think Scott Reed, Thoolen and Casey-Leigh will play at AFL Level?
Is there the potential for Ben Reid to go back as a CHB?

If we do draft another KPB this year I think we will have our answer. If not, we must be happy to think one of these will step up along with Brown, Anthony and O'Brien.

I'd like to see us draft another ruck and if the rookie list is extended this year due to GC17 coming on board then maybe rookie another as well.

The rest should be used on mids and one of Lockyer24's short people if they can be found.....

We probably do need another ruck but I've been so spurned wasting picks and time on these over the years what with McKee, Richards etc. that I don't want to see another high pick used on one as so often you get nothing for it compared to what you can with mids.

So if we are going to get another ruck I hope it's a speculative rookie/late pick or tied into a trade, not any pick before the 4th round.

 

[hellfire]

561 midfielders.
1 key back, thought it's not vital.
1 small rebounding defender (when Harry can't take them, the smalls carve us up).
1 ruckman.

Priority is clearly midfielders. I'd say two in-and-unders who have some toe, and most importantly - GOOD SKILLS! Also two hybrid (mainly outside, but can go inside) midfielders who have explosive pace, and good skills.

 

[Bigness]

You'd love to be able to ask Hine a few questions and then you would know where we stand with our list:

Do they see Goldsack as KP given he is 193cm or will he be a flanker?
What role do they think Scott Reed, Thoolen and Casey-Leigh will play at AFL Level?
Is there the potential for Ben Reid to go back as a CHB?

If we do draft another KPB this year I think we will have our answer. If not, we must be happy to think one of these will step up along with Brown, Anthony and O'Brien.

I'd like to see us draft another ruck and if the rookie list is extended this year due to GC17 coming on board then maybe rookie another as well.

The rest should be used on mids and one of Lockyer24's short people if they can be found.....

A few good questions you raise there. Especially about the sac. He is 193 cm but he's a very light framed 193. Not a big unit type like Browny. I see him more as a flanker. against big forwards he would get thrown around like a rag doll. He's so quick and agile too which makes me think he's more suited to smalls, with the ability to spoil over head due to his height. We have a few of them....O'Brien and Anthony are in the same mould.

I think Anthony will end up going back. I remember his draft video. I was so excited by his attacking and rebounding out of defence. A really nice mover. Handy to be able to swing him forward though

 

[Bigness]

We probably do need another ruck but I've been so spurned wasting picks and time on these over the years what with McKee, Richards etc. that I don't want to see another high pick used on one as so often you get nothing for it compared to what you can with mids.

So if we are going to get another ruck I hope it's a speculative rookie/late pick or tied into a trade, not any pick before the 4th round.

I tend to agree with you on this. they are just too risky to spend good picks on unless they are clearly outstanding talents.

 

[well left]

Agreed. Not sure there is many pure ruckmen after Natinui and maybe Vickery that will appear in the first few rounds. I'd prefer to stay away from ruckmen/forwards like McKernan and Roughead and either pick one up late or rookie. We may already have one of them anyway in Thoolen.

Anyone seen anything of Browne (Murray Bushrangers) or Redden (SA)? They might be available 3rd or 4th round.

 

[sirlothie]

A few good questions you raise there. Especially about the sac. He is 193 cm but he's a very light framed 193. Not a big unit type like Browny. I see him more as a flanker. against big forwards he would get thrown around like a rag doll. He's so quick and agile too which makes me think he's more suited to smalls, with the ability to spoil over head due to his height. We have a few of them....O'Brien and Anthony are in the same mould.

I think Anthony will end up going back. I remember his draft video. I was so excited by his attacking and rebounding out of defence. A really nice mover. Handy to be able to swing him forward though

Yeah but I don't think Anthony is big enough/strong enough to hold down a KP full-time either. The only two youngsters I can see doing this down back is Brown, O'Brien, possibly Dawes if they send him back, and in 2-3 years Reid, but again that's dubious he can fill out enough either.

Anthony and Goldsack nowhere near the size required. Nor the height really.

Don't think you can get away with calling yourself a bona fide key position player in the AFL these days without being at least 195cm/95kg. Even O'Brien just makes it only because he is built like a brick shithouse and has fierce determination.

Ideally he would be your third tall however.

 

[Bigness]

Yeah but I don't think Anthony is big enough/strong enough to hold down a KP full-time either. The only two youngsters I can see doing this down back is Brown, O'Brien, possibly Dawes if they send him back, and in 2-3 years Reid, but again that's dubious he can fill out enough either.

Anthony and Goldsack nowhere near the size required. Nor the height really.

Don't think you can get away with calling yourself a bona fide key position player in the AFL these days without being at least 195cm/95kg. Even O'Brien just makes it only because he is built like a brick shithouse and has fierce determination.

Ideally he would be your third tall however.

Agreed on all fronts. It surprises most people that Harry is only 188cm. Can box above his height a bit like Craig Bolton size, but stronger and more creative at ground level to I think.

 

[well left]

I know what you mean about Anthony - he seems like a 3rd tall type to me as well but he is the same height as Glass and only 3kg lighter. A good pre-season in the gym, given he missed 12 months with the neck injury, and I reckon he might be up to the task.

We at least know already that he has the fierce determination that O'Brien has and will give himself every opportunity.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I suspect Toovey is being 'fattened up' for trade.

That is some seriously optimistic thinking.

 

[Bigness]

That is some seriously optimistic thinking.

Yep I had a bit of a chortle at this one too!! He is an enigma. MM seems to be the only person in Australia who believes Toovs can play the game. I can't see too many opposition coaches bashing our door down over him in October.

 

[September Action]

I don't really understand why everyone keeps picking JA in the back half. To me, he seems a natural forward.

 

[Lazyboy]

Our list is shaping up nicely.

With an eye to the future.

Backs

Brown
Maxwell
Obrien
Goldsack
Anthony

There is enough mix amongst that lot to take on most forward lines, it will never be perfect. So for me its not a massive priority.

Forwards

Cloke
Reid
Dawes
Rusling
Anthony

and then the smalls

Medhurst
Davis
Didak
Thomas
Dick
Macaffer

Forwards are strong, most certainly our most talented area.

Then our mix of smalls

H.Shaw
Clarke
Pendles
Swan
Mcarthy
Wellingham

The above is our weakest area, by a long long way.

We need immediate replacements for Burns and Obree.

Our target priority should be high end ball winners who have nice footskills, obviously insiders.

1st, 2nd rounders should be midfielders, then maybe best available talls.

There are 22 players named above, Didak is the oldest at 25

Our ruck is weak but passable with a developing Wood.

I think Lockyer, Rocca, Burns, Wakes, Fraser, Bryan should be kept.

Traded

Johnson
R.Shaw
Egan
Lonie
Cox

Targets

Del Santo
Kerr
Bruce
Salopek
Adcock
Cousins

We are still 2 years off being the real deal. So this year will make or break our chances of securing a gun mid. Its a MUST to ensure we have a competitive amount of ball winners.

 

[the_fresh]

R. Shaw will stay.
This by far has been his best year, he's now used as a tagger who can hurt on the rebound, from a few reports he's top 3 or 4 in the B&F.