Some Questions For Atheists

[skilts]

atheists/communists havent done so well

Sorry, I thought you were attempting to differentiate christian countries with other than christian ones in the bit I bolded. Do you now resile from what you wrote, or do you think Great Britain and Australia are richer than Saudi Arabia?

 

[Richo83]

very small sample sizes.

4 and 5??? liberals are more intelligent? Please.

One wonders why Christian countries are so much wealthier than non Christian countries?

Oh really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations#Christians

There is no correlation with Christianity and high wealth. Western nations, most of which are experiencing a drop in Christian belief (see religion in europe for example in wiki) are mostly Christian but that has more to do with their political and economic systems rather than their religious belief. Japan and SK are examples of this.

Rather, the top 20 countries by Christian belief by percentage are a mixture of middle and third world nations.

Why is there such a big correlation between state atheism and poverty?

That's a shockingly irrelevant generalization. Do you actually think that atheism leads to poverty? Or maybe it was that they were communists who instituted a communist cultish state system that resulted in their poverty? Clearly, it's the latter. You can't measure the correlation between religion and wealth by nation, it's too general and subject to other variations. The best way is to compare apples with apples and people within the same society, UK Christians and UK atheists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_intelligence

But be careful, just because there is a correlation between religion and low intelligence (who would've thought?) doesn't disprove religion. Certainly makes arguing with them easier though.

 

[fairdinkum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_intelligence
But be careful, just because there is a correlation between religion and low intelligence (who would've thought?) doesn't disprove religion. Certainly makes arguing with them easier though.

On the contrary, I believe it makes it much harder

 

[Richo83]

sure it does. you think Christianity is an inherently evil and subversive institution.

And stupid to boot.

Would people tick yes if they shared that view?

No, but that's like saying would people call themselves socialists if they knew what it was? But they never will, because being a Christian means you think it's good.

And plus, the average aussie Christian has a very limited understanding of Christianity.

And anyway, just because people tick Christian doesn't mean they in anyway act or live like a Christian, they may say they are but they have no link or care for it. They are hardly a Christian. I would say that of the people that call themselves Christian, the percentage that believe and act as a Christian would be hardly 100%.

Do you think there is a negative correlation between faith and IQ?

Nah, of course not! I mean all faith is is the irrational belief in something based on no logic whatsoever. What a perfect display of one's intelligences!

 

[btdg]

very small sample sizes.

4 and 5??? liberals are more intelligent? Please.

One wonders why Christian countries are so much wealthier than non Christian countries?

Why is there such a big correlation between state atheism and poverty?

Small sample sizes, but lots of different studies adds to the validity. Plus, that was after 20 seconds of google searching, and it certainly lends weight to the theory that there is a correlation between atheism and intelligence, particularly if that intelligence is channelled into the natural sciences.

As for christian countries being wealthy - which ones? The only western country I can think of with a state religion is England (Anglicanism). The USA is a secular democracy with freedom of religion inscribed in its constitution and its ideals based largely around the views of atheist founding fathers. Australia is a secular democracy with a constitution that forbids the state from instituting a state religion. The same goes for many other Western countries. On the other hand, as others have pointed out, some of the worlds poorest countries are also its most christian (in the third world).

When you talk about state atheism, you are talking about communism. Firstly, communist russia and China had a far lower base to begin with; Russia prior to Communism was an undeveloped, feudal society covering thousands of miles. Secondly, communism (and other forms of totalitarianism) are not state atheism, but rather replaced church religion with a pseudo-religious movement based around the state - the comparisons are well documented. In a truly atheist society 'state atheism' would be unnecessary because the populatino would be educated and intelligent enough not to need religion.

To go further, though, there is no academic study that I am aware of that makes a link between atheism and poverty. In contrast, the last study I cited above makes a direct correlation between atheism and average income in the USA; that is, atheists are far more likely to be earning higher income.

 

[MSR273]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_intelligence

But be careful, just because there is a correlation between religion and low intelligence (who would've thought?) doesn't disprove religion. Certainly makes arguing with them easier though.

This is a disappointing effort from you Richo. Please lift your game.

 

[medusala]

Sorry, I thought you were attempting to differentiate christian countries with other than christian ones in the bit I bolded. Do you now resile from what you wrote, or do you think Great Britain and Australia are richer than Saudi Arabia?

No. A single or even few oil rich countries is hardly a great argument for anything.

 

[medusala]

There is no correlation with Christianity and high wealth.

show me a poor Protestant country.

That's a shockingly irrelevant generalization.

Name one wealthy country with state atheism

Just one will do.

 

[medusala]

Small sample sizes, but lots of different studies adds to the validity.

small sample sizes dont engender normal population distribution

As for christian countries being wealthy - which ones? The only western country I can think of with a state religion is England (Anglicanism).

Take a look at Scandinavia

 

[BomberGal]

show me a poor Protestant country.

Interesting you didn't say Catholic, isn't it.

Name one wealthy country with state atheism

Just one will do.

Define state atheism.

The government or the people?

 

[Niximus]

Despite being wrong I find Meds comments amusing, he wants to present Christian countries as being richer (though of lower intelligence) than non-christian countries.

But if I recally correctly, didn't this Jesus these Christians are so fond of encourage a life of humbleness and poverty? Should you not sell your posessions and give to the poor?

To answer his request for an atheist state - Meds, the majority of Atheists would find the idea of an official atheist state offensive. You would find most of us would fight for your right to have a religion and want the state to stay the hell out of religion alltogether - even if they were coming in on our side.

I know it is hard to understand when you have lived your life believing that your beliefs should be pressed onto others even if their actions to the contrary have no impact on you.

 

[Qsaint]

Despite being wrong I find Meds comments amusing, he wants to present Christian countries as being richer (though of lower intelligence) than non-christian countries.

But if I recally correctly, didn't this Jesus these Christians are so fond of encourage a life of humbleness and poverty? Should you not sell your posessions and give to the poor?

To answer his request for an atheist state - Meds, the majority of Atheists would find the idea of an official atheist state offensive. You would find most of us would fight for your right to have a religion and want the state to stay the hell out of religion alltogether - even if they were coming in on our side.

I know it is hard to understand when you have lived your life believing that your beliefs should be pressed onto others even if their actions to the contrary have no impact on you.

I think Meds point is Christianity was the driving force behind the Western world, it drove its institutions in (fairness, Democracy etc etc), Academic and Learning (Universities all came from Monastries). In compoarision other religions have not

 

[fairdinkum]

Despite being wrong I find Meds comments amusing, he wants to present Christian countries as being richer (though of lower intelligence) than non-christian countries.

But if I recally correctly, didn't this Jesus these Christians are so fond of encourage a life of humbleness and poverty? Should you not sell your posessions and give to the poor?

A rich ruler asked what it would take to inherit eternal life, and Jesus told him that, along with keeping the commandments, he should sell his possessions and give to the poor. Only then would he have “treasure in Heaven” (see Matthew 19:21). Upon the man’s dejection at that comment, Jesus remarked, “It is hard for the rich to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.… It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).

 

[BomberGal]

I think Meds point is Christianity was the driving force behind the Western world, it drove its institutions in (fairness, Democracy etc etc), Academic and Learning (Universities all came from Monastries). In compoarision other religions have not

Democracy is not a Christian idea. It is an idea from the Greeks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

As are institutions of learning. Gymnasia?

 

[Bretski]

Something else i have learnt from Christians is that you should take a verse in context of the whole chapter, don't pick a verse out and use it as an argument, because you can get all sorts of crazy things out of it, look at the whole thing in context. A lot of what jesus said referred to an individual, not everyone, but the quote would be reminiscent of al individuals in that persons situation.

I just think people should consider their arguments first before blindly throwing them out there.

 

[Richo83]

show me a poor Protestant country.

Nambia is 68% protestant, but that's neither hear nor there. Simple fact is, you can't base religious opinions based on state basis, especially as state conditions are shaped by external and internal factors which have nothing to do with religion. You think Japan suddenly became the world's third biggest economy based on Shinto? Come on med. You know that you can't do this state crap, it's logically useless. It's like me pointing to all the top 20 Christian states by percentage, which are mostly poor and saying Christianity leads to poverty. Bullcrap. I mean when does a nation become Catholic, when it's state is catholic, when it's a majority catholic, when it's largest religious group is catholic?

Name one wealthy country with state atheism

Just one will do.

Maybe the fact that socialist "atheist" (and that is used very loosely) dictatorships were poor because they were communist, not atheist.

 

[Richo83]

I think Meds point is Christianity was the driving force behind the Western world, it drove its institutions in (fairness, Democracy etc etc), Academic and Learning (Universities all came from Monastries). In compoarision other religions have not

Nice idea, not very true though. Enlightenment was a refusal of many of the Christian dotrines and systems. I mean democracy is based on the notion that politics is of this world, not the next. If you have a system which places the voters higher than god, how is that Christian?

Answer is it's not. Not one mention of capitalism, democracy or freedom in the bible. Jesuit morality isn't the morality that shapes western society, individualist, consumerist egoism.

 

[bit_pattern]

Nambia is 68% protestant, but that's neither hear nor there.

Well, obviously they{re not the right KIND of of protestants... Like all of of the protestant dictators I pointed out to Meds a while back...

Orange bastards, theyre all going to burn in hell anyway

 

[JW Frogen]

Orange bastards, theyre all going to burn in hell anyway

I would think both you Protestant Organges and Irish Clovers did your best to create Hell in Northern Ireland already.

Maybe you should all comprimise and try Buddism?

Or beer with less alcohol content?

 

[JavaBlue]

I think Meds point is Christianity was the driving force behind the Western world, it drove its institutions in (fairness, Democracy etc etc), Academic and Learning (Universities all came from Monastries). In compoarision other religions have not

I think you'll find that it was the West's ability to put religion in a box and free institutions and thought from its suffocating grasp that allowed the West to advance in areas such as you have mentioned. While Christianity may have supplied some of the prerequisites for this advance, I don't think the word "drove" is applicable.

 

[Chase the Ace]

I would think both you Protestant Organges and Irish Clovers did your best to create Hell in Northern Ireland already.

Maybe you should all comprimise and try Buddism?

So who's side was God on?

 

[Chief]

I dunno, I'm basically picking and choosing here as to what is real and what isn't, and i suppose you cannot really do that.

All religious people do that. They pick the bits they want to follow or believe.

I have a question I have asked many times, and not one single religious person on this board has ever attempted to answer it:

What sense are you using when you decide which parts of the bible to follow and which to ignore or explain away as an irrelevant fable? Why do you think your way is the right way?

To be more fundie about it: What makes you think that the divine (or divinely inspired) words of the bible are there for you to pick and choose from at will, and still have cause to believe you are living according to God's will?

 

[Chief]

Or beer with less alcohol content?

A god-botherer and un-Australian. Shame on you.

 

[Chief]

Name one wealthy country with state atheism

Just one will do.

Australia and the US have no state religion. Is that atheist enough? Or do they have to actually ban religion? The UK has a Clayton's state religion. Close enough?

Religious people will ALWAYS blame anything bad on the evil and the godless, and anything good is attributed to God without question.

In fact, without question could be the very definition of religion.

 

[Watto]

All religious people do that. They pick the bits they want to follow or believe.

I have a question I have asked many times, and not one single religious person on this board has ever attempted to answer it:

What sense are you using when you decide what to follow and what to ignore? Why do you think your way is the right way?

To be more fundie about it: What makes you think that the divine (or divinely inspired) words of the bible are there for you to pick and choose from at will, and still have cause to believe you are living according to God's will?

Exactly, considering how fundamentalist some christians are, I'm surprised more of them don't have slaves.