Some thoughts on the Adelaide NAB Cup Game
- Thread starter Reg Hickey
- Start date
- Tagged users None
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Posts
- 3,041
- Reaction score
- 513
- Location
- Melbourne
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- New England Patriots
I was looking in the paper and saw that Tenace got a fair bit of the ball and had a very good effectiveness percentage. Then I saw Bomber give his some praise and was then surprised to see him get bagged out so much on this thread.
So I am watching the game and he is having a pretty descent game. Made a few blunders, but who hasnt, and done some good things too, again like other players. Think he is being judged much to harshly, but then that isnt a surprise from this board.
Didnt mind his game at all.
So I am watching the game and he is having a pretty descent game. Made a few blunders, but who hasnt, and done some good things too, again like other players. Think he is being judged much to harshly, but then that isnt a surprise from this board.
Didnt mind his game at all.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2005
- Posts
- 22,929
- Reaction score
- 16,129
- Location
- Melbourne
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Aussie cricket team
I've been swapping some emails with a journo mate of mine (a roos supporter), what he said about gaz has stunned me.
Him; did you happen to watch the geel vs adel match?
Me; Yes, it was the gary ablett show
Him;I have come to the conclusion that he is the best there ever was.
Me; No way. Probably turns a game more than any small player ever has though.
Him; ablett is the best I've seen. As great as his dad was, I'd take junior thanks. Senior was more spectacular, junior more effective.
I know this topic is going to keep coming up now, but I can't see how gaz could be in the top 10 ever, never mind the best. Still stunned, my mate used to be an awesome AFL journo, but he's losing cred with me
Him; did you happen to watch the geel vs adel match?
Me; Yes, it was the gary ablett show
Him;I have come to the conclusion that he is the best there ever was.
Me; No way. Probably turns a game more than any small player ever has though.
Him; ablett is the best I've seen. As great as his dad was, I'd take junior thanks. Senior was more spectacular, junior more effective.
I know this topic is going to keep coming up now, but I can't see how gaz could be in the top 10 ever, never mind the best. Still stunned, my mate used to be an awesome AFL journo, but he's losing cred with me
Log in to remove this Banner Ad
- Banned
- #105
I've been swapping some emails with a journo mate of mine (a roos supporter), what he said about gaz has stunned me.
.........Him; ablett is the best I've seen. As great as his dad was, I'd take junior thanks. Senior was more spectacular, junior more effective.
I know this topic is going to keep coming up now, but I can't see how gaz could be in the top 10 ever, never mind the best. Still stunned, my mate used to be an awesome AFL journo, but he's losing cred with me
I don't take seriously anyone who underrates Gary Snr - which is essentially what is being done with comparisons such as this.
"The legends' 50 greatest (in alphabetical order)
GARY ABLETT
(Hawthorn 1982, 6 games; Geelong 1984-96, 242 games)
A latter-day legend, Ablett snr made the most of his second chance at league football with the Cats. Freakish skills and goal sense enabled him to boot prodigious tallies even from a wing. Dominated the 1989 finals series with 27 goals and a Norm Smith Medal, won three Coleman Medals and was an All-Australian seven times."
Time obviously dims memories. Gary (Snr) was not called 'God' for nothing. Gaz is very good but needs another 5 years of topline footy to be anywhere near Dad.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
- Posts
- 14,565
- Reaction score
- 4,841
- Location
- The Dirty N-o-r-f
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- One club man
it is too early in the year for but shannon was not alright, every bit of good was followed up with monumental calamity.
yeah, he wasnt on his own, quite a few have turned it over with poor skills but ole shan just keeps making the same mistakes ad nauseum. handpassing to flat footed ruckmen is definitely one of them.
apart from when she predicted shan would split the big posts...i didnt mind her, but her voice was weird, kind of like a country drawl.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2007
- Posts
- 693
- Reaction score
- 1
- Location
- Narnia
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Golden State Warriors
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Promising - Hogan (big time), Djekurra, West. In addition Varcoe (in particular), Taylor and Gamble look to have gone up another level.
Pitiful - Blake, Tenace. They never have and will never be any good. West has a lot more to offer than Blake - he's stronger, has more awareness and actually has some skill. Give him the back-up ruck role this year. Blake is a no hope.
Promising - Hogan (big time), Djekurra, West. In addition Varcoe (in particular), Taylor and Gamble look to have gone up another level.
Pitiful - Blake, Tenace. They never have and will never be any good. West has a lot more to offer than Blake - he's stronger, has more awareness and actually has some skill. Give him the back-up ruck role this year. Blake is a no hope.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2006
- Posts
- 7,469
- Reaction score
- 8,305
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Liverpool, Chicago Bulls
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Having been a Blake supporter in the past, I am starting to agree with you. West gives the impression that if he played a bit more senior footy, learning from playing with Ottens and quality onballers, he would improve his play around the ground, positioning, etc. With Blake, he can get on the weights as much as he likes, but his co-ordination and lack of football skills in general doesnt seem to improve that much.
Having said that, I want to see them both in a few more games, not going to give up completely on somebody after one NAB Cup game
Having been a Blake supporter in the past, I am starting to agree with you. West gives the impression that if he played a bit more senior footy, learning from playing with Ottens and quality onballers, he would improve his play around the ground, positioning, etc. With Blake, he can get on the weights as much as he likes, but his co-ordination and lack of football skills in general doesnt seem to improve that much.
Having said that, I want to see them both in a few more games, not going to give up completely on somebody after one NAB Cup game
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2004
- Posts
- 5,303
- Reaction score
- 3,962
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Banned
- #109
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Gamble was already up a level last year, selection panel made a mistake. Agree on Taylor he looks bigger and more confident. Djekurra is still too early to judge, he needs consistent performances in the ressies so is still unproven.
Yep, both major duds. Do we really need a repeat of rounds 1-9 last year to prove how f$#@ing useless Blake is? Tenace has never had skills, don't know how he got drafted so early??
Gamble was already up a level last year, selection panel made a mistake. Agree on Taylor he looks bigger and more confident. Djekurra is still too early to judge, he needs consistent performances in the ressies so is still unproven.
Yep, both major duds. Do we really need a repeat of rounds 1-9 last year to prove how f$#@ing useless Blake is? Tenace has never had skills, don't know how he got drafted so early??
- Joined
- May 10, 2004
- Posts
- 24,853
- Reaction score
- 5,698
- Location
- The Mothership
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Pistons/Hammers/Sri Lanka/The Exers
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Ive watched the game three times and I really didn't think Tenace was as bad as everyone is making out.
He spent a lot of last year injured and hasn't played a whole heap of footy, but compared to previous outings I saw some positive signs in his game. At least he was getting it and he seemed to play a fair bit of the game on Scott Thompson who had minimal impact for a fellow who is one of their best four or five players.
He did have a couple of absolutely stinking turnovers, but then so too did a few of his more credentialed teammates. I think the only way he can be an effective footballer at this level is to play off half back and break the lines a la Wojak, and i'm pleased to see that the coaching staff have decided to give him a go in this role for the warm up games. I'll be keeping a close eye on him on Saturday to see how he shapes up after this first up run.
I also never thought i'd say this, but I agree with the poster who said we play better with Byrnes in the side. I don't know exactly how it works to be honest, but he seems to be some kind of talisman when he's playing seniors. He had a typical Byrnes style game the other night, but I dunno, perhaps it's his willingness to back himself at all times regardless of his glaring deficiencies that makes the difference?
Of the young fellows, I was bitterly disappointed with Scott Simpsons outing. Just could not get near it, and taking this game in conjunction with his VFL form last year, it appears more and more that he is very much a mark and kick sort of player. That being the case i'm not sure how he's going to fit into our side.
Hogan looks like he's ready to come straight in if we need him. I hope he gets an early run in the seniors and see what he does, because he looked right at home among the big names in the guts. Could he be the player that gives most Geelong fans their wish and make players like Byrnes and Tenace obsolete?
I liked McKenna's game, looks to have a bit of poise as a defender and after another year in the gym could slot in back there with ease.
Laidler also looks to have a presence to him that suggests to me he can make a player.
I've been very pleased with what i've seen of Varcoe so far this year. After his embarrassing effort in the GF, he looks to have hardened up a bit physically, and has certainly been imposing himself on more contests. If he can eliminate the laziness and occasional skirting of packs which i've still seen a bit of in the two games he's played this year, he can add some real class further up the ground. He does have deft hands and great vision when he's switched on.
Harry is going to have a mammoth year for us make no mistakes about it.
Gamble has to be in this side. It is absolutely essential. Can play any forward role and do it with class.
I'm still not sold on Djerrkura. Has a ton of pace and gives no quarter, but just doesn't get enough of it for mine. I know he's been struggling for fitness the whole time he's been at the club, hopefully he stays injury free this year so we can see what he's truly capable of.
All in all, we cruised through that game without really extending ourselves. Considering where we are in our preparation, we looked reasonably sharp (some more than others), but I think the signs were there that we are keen, and ready, to make sure last years bitter disappointment becomes a distant memory.
Ive watched the game three times and I really didn't think Tenace was as bad as everyone is making out.
He spent a lot of last year injured and hasn't played a whole heap of footy, but compared to previous outings I saw some positive signs in his game. At least he was getting it and he seemed to play a fair bit of the game on Scott Thompson who had minimal impact for a fellow who is one of their best four or five players.
He did have a couple of absolutely stinking turnovers, but then so too did a few of his more credentialed teammates. I think the only way he can be an effective footballer at this level is to play off half back and break the lines a la Wojak, and i'm pleased to see that the coaching staff have decided to give him a go in this role for the warm up games. I'll be keeping a close eye on him on Saturday to see how he shapes up after this first up run.
I also never thought i'd say this, but I agree with the poster who said we play better with Byrnes in the side. I don't know exactly how it works to be honest, but he seems to be some kind of talisman when he's playing seniors. He had a typical Byrnes style game the other night, but I dunno, perhaps it's his willingness to back himself at all times regardless of his glaring deficiencies that makes the difference?
Of the young fellows, I was bitterly disappointed with Scott Simpsons outing. Just could not get near it, and taking this game in conjunction with his VFL form last year, it appears more and more that he is very much a mark and kick sort of player. That being the case i'm not sure how he's going to fit into our side.
Hogan looks like he's ready to come straight in if we need him. I hope he gets an early run in the seniors and see what he does, because he looked right at home among the big names in the guts. Could he be the player that gives most Geelong fans their wish and make players like Byrnes and Tenace obsolete?
I liked McKenna's game, looks to have a bit of poise as a defender and after another year in the gym could slot in back there with ease.
Laidler also looks to have a presence to him that suggests to me he can make a player.
I've been very pleased with what i've seen of Varcoe so far this year. After his embarrassing effort in the GF, he looks to have hardened up a bit physically, and has certainly been imposing himself on more contests. If he can eliminate the laziness and occasional skirting of packs which i've still seen a bit of in the two games he's played this year, he can add some real class further up the ground. He does have deft hands and great vision when he's switched on.
Harry is going to have a mammoth year for us make no mistakes about it.
Gamble has to be in this side. It is absolutely essential. Can play any forward role and do it with class.
I'm still not sold on Djerrkura. Has a ton of pace and gives no quarter, but just doesn't get enough of it for mine. I know he's been struggling for fitness the whole time he's been at the club, hopefully he stays injury free this year so we can see what he's truly capable of.
All in all, we cruised through that game without really extending ourselves. Considering where we are in our preparation, we looked reasonably sharp (some more than others), but I think the signs were there that we are keen, and ready, to make sure last years bitter disappointment becomes a distant memory.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Posts
- 804
- Reaction score
- 340
- Location
- Sandringham
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Liverpool FC,
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
You make some good points Diablo but remember Scott Simpson did have Bok on him for most of he night. I say lets just cut him some slack and see how he goes for the whole pre-season.
You make some good points Diablo but remember Scott Simpson did have Bok on him for most of he night. I say lets just cut him some slack and see how he goes for the whole pre-season.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2008
- Posts
- 7,589
- Reaction score
- 4,537
- Location
- Melbourne
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Lakers
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
It would be interesting to know if Simpson was told structurally to lead Bock away from the play...or maybe he's just shit.
It would be interesting to know if Simpson was told structurally to lead Bock away from the play...or maybe he's just shit.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2007
- Posts
- 2,534
- Reaction score
- 164
- Location
- The Great Wall of Geelong
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Steelers Pistons Eels A's Red-Wings
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Blake fulfills his role down to a tee, and I would opt for him as our back- up ruckman ahead of Trent West each and every day of the week. The Geelong team in general does a fantastic job keeping the ball out of his hands when in possession, which is the way it should be when we have the quality in our side that we do, and it isn't as if when he does get it he hurts us with his disposal either.
What Blake brings to the table is the ability to dominate hitouts, which he invariably does against the opposition's 2nd string follower (and sometimes 1st), giving our midfield brigade first use. West cannot do this to anywhere near the degree Blake can, and when push comes to shove, when he have the quality we do around him and when we have a two- pronged player like Ottens doing the bulk of the work, that is all you need in a back- up ruckman as that is their first and foremost duty as players.
Blake fulfills his role down to a tee, and I would opt for him as our back- up ruckman ahead of Trent West each and every day of the week. The Geelong team in general does a fantastic job keeping the ball out of his hands when in possession, which is the way it should be when we have the quality in our side that we do, and it isn't as if when he does get it he hurts us with his disposal either.
What Blake brings to the table is the ability to dominate hitouts, which he invariably does against the opposition's 2nd string follower (and sometimes 1st), giving our midfield brigade first use. West cannot do this to anywhere near the degree Blake can, and when push comes to shove, when he have the quality we do around him and when we have a two- pronged player like Ottens doing the bulk of the work, that is all you need in a back- up ruckman as that is their first and foremost duty as players.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2007
- Posts
- 2,534
- Reaction score
- 164
- Location
- The Great Wall of Geelong
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Steelers Pistons Eels A's Red-Wings
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Both Tom Hawkins and Scott Simpson are prototypical full- forwards in the "old- school" mode. Their strengths lie in either standing toe-to-toe one out deep in the forward 50 or on a short bursting lead from square before getting hit up out in front. Tom Lonergan, I would dub the opposite to this. More of an athletic centre- half- forward who can work opponents overtime up around the ground and pushing deep.
For whatever reason, the coaching staff opted to play Simpson in the CHF's role at the weekend, leading up and spending most of time outside 50 where he invariably looked slow and lost and became easy pickings for the experienced Nathan Bock. Hawkins is utilised in a similar fashion when in the line- up partnered with Mooney. On the other hand, Lonergan is played deep forward as the primary big- man target, a role for which he unfortunately just does not have the strength or presence to strike fear in defenders. He is talented enough to capitalise on the delievery coming in to notch 1-3 goals most week and do some good things but he will never be a gamebreaker at FF.
Both Tom Hawkins and Scott Simpson are prototypical full- forwards in the "old- school" mode. Their strengths lie in either standing toe-to-toe one out deep in the forward 50 or on a short bursting lead from square before getting hit up out in front. Tom Lonergan, I would dub the opposite to this. More of an athletic centre- half- forward who can work opponents overtime up around the ground and pushing deep.
For whatever reason, the coaching staff opted to play Simpson in the CHF's role at the weekend, leading up and spending most of time outside 50 where he invariably looked slow and lost and became easy pickings for the experienced Nathan Bock. Hawkins is utilised in a similar fashion when in the line- up partnered with Mooney. On the other hand, Lonergan is played deep forward as the primary big- man target, a role for which he unfortunately just does not have the strength or presence to strike fear in defenders. He is talented enough to capitalise on the delievery coming in to notch 1-3 goals most week and do some good things but he will never be a gamebreaker at FF.
Looking at the game again, the strangest thing for me was watching Enright struggle. No real issue. If he's ever going to be rusty, it'll be this time of year.
It was just wierd watching him miss targets, choose the wrong options, look slow, and generally seem a bit out of it.
Hopefully those cobwebs have been blown away. He'll be under more pressure early on with Harley out and possibly a young bloke to take under his wing.
It was just wierd watching him miss targets, choose the wrong options, look slow, and generally seem a bit out of it.
Hopefully those cobwebs have been blown away. He'll be under more pressure early on with Harley out and possibly a young bloke to take under his wing.
Just watched the game again and was really impressed with all our young players except Simpson.
I think Hogan and Varcoe are absolutely ready to play senior football and should be given a chance to cement a spot in the first month of footy. We are a little short of pace and these guys have it in spades. I'm not sure who's better out of the two but I think we should have one of them on the wing possibly even ahead of Wojcinski.
I also think Djerkurra can do a better job as a harrasing forwards than Byrnes. Byrnes may be faster (not sure) but Djerkurra changes direction so well, I was very impressed. I think that will put enormous pressure on opposition forwards. I'd like to see him given a try ahead of Byrnes.
I'm starting to think that I don't like Corey playing on the wing. He covers a lot of ground and he is an absolute ball magnet but his disposal doesn't seem damaging enough to be used in a relatively outside role. I'd much rather see him feeding it out to players like Chapman or Varcoe on the wings.
I think Hogan and Varcoe are absolutely ready to play senior football and should be given a chance to cement a spot in the first month of footy. We are a little short of pace and these guys have it in spades. I'm not sure who's better out of the two but I think we should have one of them on the wing possibly even ahead of Wojcinski.
I also think Djerkurra can do a better job as a harrasing forwards than Byrnes. Byrnes may be faster (not sure) but Djerkurra changes direction so well, I was very impressed. I think that will put enormous pressure on opposition forwards. I'd like to see him given a try ahead of Byrnes.
I'm starting to think that I don't like Corey playing on the wing. He covers a lot of ground and he is an absolute ball magnet but his disposal doesn't seem damaging enough to be used in a relatively outside role. I'd much rather see him feeding it out to players like Chapman or Varcoe on the wings.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2007
- Posts
- 2,534
- Reaction score
- 164
- Location
- The Great Wall of Geelong
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Steelers Pistons Eels A's Red-Wings
Gamble HAS to stay in the senior side permanently for season 2009 and beyond. He is that Ryan O'Keefe type of medium forward, possessing great hands and the ability to play taller and stronger than he is (essentially like a smaller key forward). Always seems to bob up with goals when needed, and that chase down at the weekend emphasised that hard- nosed edge to his game. Really adds to the dynamic of our forward 50 beautifully.
I liked the move of Max Rooke to that negating half- forward role also, that is where Thompson should use him from now on. If he'd started in such a position in last year's Grand Final on Hodge before he got settled (which I pleaded he should have all week leading in) it may have been a different story. It's important teams start paying more attention to quelling these "quarterback" types with proper tagging tactics rather than just making it a game of cat and mouse and hoping your forward can get the ball in his hands often enough to expose them and ultimately come out on top (unfortunately this is a rarity). It's too risky as guys like Hodge on a good day (which is often) will influence too many contests.
I liked the move of Max Rooke to that negating half- forward role also, that is where Thompson should use him from now on. If he'd started in such a position in last year's Grand Final on Hodge before he got settled (which I pleaded he should have all week leading in) it may have been a different story. It's important teams start paying more attention to quelling these "quarterback" types with proper tagging tactics rather than just making it a game of cat and mouse and hoping your forward can get the ball in his hands often enough to expose them and ultimately come out on top (unfortunately this is a rarity). It's too risky as guys like Hodge on a good day (which is often) will influence too many contests.
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Let's hope he can do better this week then. 7 clangers, 11 possessions and a paltry supercoach rating of 10 compared to West's 0 clangers, 12 possessions and a rating of 55.
Let's hope he can do better this week then. 7 clangers, 11 possessions and a paltry supercoach rating of 10 compared to West's 0 clangers, 12 possessions and a rating of 55.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2007
- Posts
- 2,534
- Reaction score
- 164
- Location
- The Great Wall of Geelong
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Steelers Pistons Eels A's Red-Wings
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
You cannot be serious?
I can only hope you are not basing a decision whether or not to replace Mark Blake with Trent West in the ruck on his statistics 1) In a pre- season game, his first in 5 months and 2) On just a single game.
Try instead giving the argument some substance by looking at Blake's contribution over the long term. Last season Blake averaged over 10 disposals a game at 81% disposal efficiency, ranking him 7th at the club amongst players who played almost the full season (believe it or not, 2nd amongst players outside of our defense). More importantly Blake averaged 21 hitouts a game ranking 4th in the AFL (he also ranked 4th in the league for total hitouts).
Granted, he is never going to be an Ottens or Cox, but we don't need him to be. The fact remains that Blake is a significant contributor to the dominance of our side, and fulfills his role as a back- up ruckman magnificently well, in fact, if there are any teams possessing a better performed back- up ruckmen then I'd like to hear about them. The proof is in the pudding that when he gets the ball, he actually doesn't utilise it too badly at all and he consistently feeds our midfielders first use of the ball. What more could you want?
And the day that I, or any football supporter with the slightest degree of football knowledge, judges the worth of a player on Supercoach points scored, will be the day pigs fly.
Blake >>> West
You cannot be serious?
I can only hope you are not basing a decision whether or not to replace Mark Blake with Trent West in the ruck on his statistics 1) In a pre- season game, his first in 5 months and 2) On just a single game.
Try instead giving the argument some substance by looking at Blake's contribution over the long term. Last season Blake averaged over 10 disposals a game at 81% disposal efficiency, ranking him 7th at the club amongst players who played almost the full season (believe it or not, 2nd amongst players outside of our defense). More importantly Blake averaged 21 hitouts a game ranking 4th in the AFL (he also ranked 4th in the league for total hitouts).
Granted, he is never going to be an Ottens or Cox, but we don't need him to be. The fact remains that Blake is a significant contributor to the dominance of our side, and fulfills his role as a back- up ruckman magnificently well, in fact, if there are any teams possessing a better performed back- up ruckmen then I'd like to hear about them. The proof is in the pudding that when he gets the ball, he actually doesn't utilise it too badly at all and he consistently feeds our midfielders first use of the ball. What more could you want?
And the day that I, or any football supporter with the slightest degree of football knowledge, judges the worth of a player on Supercoach points scored, will be the day pigs fly.
Blake >>> West
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
catempire
Hall of Famer
5 of Blake's 7 clangers were frees against.
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Yes they were. Still means he turned the ball over directly to opposition 7 times.
My comments are in relation to his performance last game. Not overall.
Supercoach isn't a good tool for ranking a performance but no one could argue that a score of 10 is a fantastic game. I find it amusing that you dismiss supercoach but back up your argument with efficiency rating. That is just as subjective as champion data ratings. Do you know what actually constitutes an ineffective possession? Clangers are obviously ineffective but what else? Kicking it a 50/50 contest? Does a 10m dribble kick that ends up in the arms of a team mate who has to back track to get it constitute an effective disposal?
Anyway I'll play along; the reason his effeciency is fairly high is because he handballs 70% of the time. Not hard to hit a target running past is it? Much harder to get a higher effeceincy when you have to kick it 15-50m. Handballing it 2m...... Pfft... Andre Bocelli could do that.... Marking the ball might be a bit hard for him.
And the day that I, or any football supporter with the slightest degree of football knowledge, judges the worth of a player on effeciency % scored, will be the day pigs fly.... oh wait you did.
I am not going to get into the debate of West vs Blake vs Mumford. My opinion is that if West has had the opportunity Blake has we would see a much better player than what his performances have shown to date.
As for teams that have a better second ruckman(in no particular order);
North: Petrie/Hale/McIntosh. Depending who is the primary ruckman on the day, all 3 are better than Blake.
St Kilda: Kosi when he plays ruck. J. Blake is better around the ground but M Blake is better at tap ruckwork.
Port Adelaide: Brogan.
Western Bulldogs: Hudson/Minson (depending on who you think their 2nd ruckman is)
Eagles: Seaby (close call but I think he's in front).
Obviously going with how many taps Blake had from last season most of those guys aren't going to have the same amount but Blake did play half the season as the primary ruckman which skews his season statistics as a 2nd ruckman.
Yes they were. Still means he turned the ball over directly to opposition 7 times.
My comments are in relation to his performance last game. Not overall.
Supercoach isn't a good tool for ranking a performance but no one could argue that a score of 10 is a fantastic game. I find it amusing that you dismiss supercoach but back up your argument with efficiency rating. That is just as subjective as champion data ratings. Do you know what actually constitutes an ineffective possession? Clangers are obviously ineffective but what else? Kicking it a 50/50 contest? Does a 10m dribble kick that ends up in the arms of a team mate who has to back track to get it constitute an effective disposal?
Anyway I'll play along; the reason his effeciency is fairly high is because he handballs 70% of the time. Not hard to hit a target running past is it? Much harder to get a higher effeceincy when you have to kick it 15-50m. Handballing it 2m...... Pfft... Andre Bocelli could do that.... Marking the ball might be a bit hard for him.
And the day that I, or any football supporter with the slightest degree of football knowledge, judges the worth of a player on effeciency % scored, will be the day pigs fly.... oh wait you did.
I am not going to get into the debate of West vs Blake vs Mumford. My opinion is that if West has had the opportunity Blake has we would see a much better player than what his performances have shown to date.
As for teams that have a better second ruckman(in no particular order);
North: Petrie/Hale/McIntosh. Depending who is the primary ruckman on the day, all 3 are better than Blake.
St Kilda: Kosi when he plays ruck. J. Blake is better around the ground but M Blake is better at tap ruckwork.
Port Adelaide: Brogan.
Western Bulldogs: Hudson/Minson (depending on who you think their 2nd ruckman is)
Eagles: Seaby (close call but I think he's in front).
Obviously going with how many taps Blake had from last season most of those guys aren't going to have the same amount but Blake did play half the season as the primary ruckman which skews his season statistics as a 2nd ruckman.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2007
- Posts
- 2,534
- Reaction score
- 164
- Location
- The Great Wall of Geelong
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Steelers Pistons Eels A's Red-Wings
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Blake was 10th in the AFL for total hitouts in 2007 as well despite missing some games and the bulk of the ruck duties being undertaken by Brad Ottens. Noone can deny the guy consistently gets his hands on the ball first at the hitouts more often than not. You are right, his disposal efficiency is high because he handballs alot. That's fine with me, especially when those handballs are going to Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Selwood and co, which they often are. Hell, Scott Wynd won a Brownlow Medal doing the exact same thing. I am not drawing a comparison, but I am just saying sometimes that's all you need to be effective which Blake is for us. His disposal "technique" is extremely suspect, but I'll take his proficiency.
Yes they were. Still means he turned the ball over directly to opposition 7 times.
My comments are in relation to his performance last game. Not overall.
Supercoach isn't a good tool for ranking a performance but no one could argue that a score of 10 is a fantastic game. I find it amusing that you dismiss supercoach but back up your argument with efficiency rating. That is just as subjective as champion data ratings. Do you know what actually constitutes an ineffective possession? Clangers are obviously ineffective but what else? Kicking it a 50/50 contest? Does a 10m dribble kick that ends up in the arms of a team mate who has to back track to get it constitute an effective disposal?
Anyway I'll play along; the reason his effeciency is fairly high is because he handballs 70% of the time. Not hard to hit a target running past is it? Much harder to get a higher effeceincy when you have to kick it 15-50m. Handballing it 2m...... Pfft... Andre Bocelli could do that.... Marking the ball might be a bit hard for him.
And the day that I, or any football supporter with the slightest degree of football knowledge, judges the worth of a player on effeciency % scored, will be the day pigs fly.... oh wait you did.
I am not going to get into the debate of West vs Blake vs Mumford. My opinion is that if West has had the opportunity Blake has we would see a much better player than what his performances have shown to date.
As for teams that have a better second ruckman(in no particular order);
North: Petrie/Hale/McIntosh. Depending who is the primary ruckman on the day, all 3 are better than Blake.
St Kilda: Kosi when he plays ruck. J. Blake is better around the ground but M Blake is better at tap ruckwork.
Port Adelaide: Brogan.
Western Bulldogs: Hudson/Minson (depending on who you think their 2nd ruckman is)
Eagles: Seaby (close call but I think he's in front).
Obviously going with how many taps Blake had from last season most of those guys aren't going to have the same amount but Blake did play half the season as the primary ruckman which skews his season statistics as a 2nd ruckman.
Blake was 10th in the AFL for total hitouts in 2007 as well despite missing some games and the bulk of the ruck duties being undertaken by Brad Ottens. Noone can deny the guy consistently gets his hands on the ball first at the hitouts more often than not. You are right, his disposal efficiency is high because he handballs alot. That's fine with me, especially when those handballs are going to Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Selwood and co, which they often are. Hell, Scott Wynd won a Brownlow Medal doing the exact same thing. I am not drawing a comparison, but I am just saying sometimes that's all you need to be effective which Blake is for us. His disposal "technique" is extremely suspect, but I'll take his proficiency.
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
You're struggling to make an argument IMO. You are looking at a ruckmen's supercoach score when he gave away 5 free kicks and did not get an enourmous amount of game time and is a tap ruckmen rather than utility ruckmen. 10's about what you'd expect. For this reason I find it perfectly reasonable to discount supercoach scores.
Of those mentioned:
Brogan = Arguably 1st ruck after Lade's very average in 08
Kosi = Forward Utility
Hale = Forward Utility
Petrie = CHB Utility
J.Blake= ? 189cm hack
Minson= Dud so far not even close to Blake
Seaby = Not as good as Blake, not even close
With some of those selections I guess you can also include; Mooney, Goodes, and Q.Lynch.
Also if i'm not mistaken an ineffective kick is one that is less than 40m which results in opposition possesion. It's not that complicated and pretty easy to quantify.
Yes they were. Still means he turned the ball over directly to opposition 7 times.
My comments are in relation to his performance last game. Not overall.
Supercoach isn't a good tool for ranking a performance but no one could argue that a score of 10 is a fantastic game. I find it amusing that you dismiss supercoach but back up your argument with efficiency rating. That is just as subjective as champion data ratings. Do you know what actually constitutes an ineffective possession? Clangers are obviously ineffective but what else? Kicking it a 50/50 contest? Does a 10m dribble kick that ends up in the arms of a team mate who has to back track to get it constitute an effective disposal?
Anyway I'll play along; the reason his effeciency is fairly high is because he handballs 70% of the time. Not hard to hit a target running past is it? Much harder to get a higher effeceincy when you have to kick it 15-50m. Handballing it 2m...... Pfft... Andre Bocelli could do that.... Marking the ball might be a bit hard for him.
And the day that I, or any football supporter with the slightest degree of football knowledge, judges the worth of a player on effeciency % scored, will be the day pigs fly.... oh wait you did.
I am not going to get into the debate of West vs Blake vs Mumford. My opinion is that if West has had the opportunity Blake has we would see a much better player than what his performances have shown to date.
As for teams that have a better second ruckman(in no particular order);
North: Petrie/Hale/McIntosh. Depending who is the primary ruckman on the day, all 3 are better than Blake.
St Kilda: Kosi when he plays ruck. J. Blake is better around the ground but M Blake is better at tap ruckwork.
Port Adelaide: Brogan.
Western Bulldogs: Hudson/Minson (depending on who you think their 2nd ruckman is)
Eagles: Seaby (close call but I think he's in front).
Obviously going with how many taps Blake had from last season most of those guys aren't going to have the same amount but Blake did play half the season as the primary ruckman which skews his season statistics as a 2nd ruckman.
You're struggling to make an argument IMO. You are looking at a ruckmen's supercoach score when he gave away 5 free kicks and did not get an enourmous amount of game time and is a tap ruckmen rather than utility ruckmen. 10's about what you'd expect. For this reason I find it perfectly reasonable to discount supercoach scores.
Of those mentioned:
Brogan = Arguably 1st ruck after Lade's very average in 08
Kosi = Forward Utility
Hale = Forward Utility
Petrie = CHB Utility
J.Blake= ? 189cm hack
Minson= Dud so far not even close to Blake
Seaby = Not as good as Blake, not even close
With some of those selections I guess you can also include; Mooney, Goodes, and Q.Lynch.
Also if i'm not mistaken an ineffective kick is one that is less than 40m which results in opposition possesion. It's not that complicated and pretty easy to quantify.
- Joined
- May 10, 2004
- Posts
- 24,853
- Reaction score
- 5,698
- Location
- The Mothership
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Pistons/Hammers/Sri Lanka/The Exers
Re: Some thoughts on tonight
Well said.
I've about had enough of the Blake bashing.
He's doing enough as a second ruck to justify his continued selection.
I also believe that his best footy is still ahead of him.
Well said.
I've about had enough of the Blake bashing.
He's doing enough as a second ruck to justify his continued selection.
I also believe that his best footy is still ahead of him.
Similar threads
