Opinion Something else happened.

[Wally Walpamur]

I haven’t seen too much shift in structures all season, with the exception of delivery inside 50. We still look to block the switch and outlets from defence but by using the chaos ball, Lyon’s depending that we pressure them enough to keep the ball in our forward half and win the stoppages. The play on and quick ball movement from d50 looks a lot improved though (better skill?). I can’t remember the last time we looked to go up the middle so often and that’s where we’ve seen Ed, Billy, Colyer and Son Son break things open.

 

[theGav56]

I distinguish Ross from Eade etc type coaches in that they slowly faded into irrelevance whereas Ross experienced the big crash of 2016 and probably had to take stock of his actions and philosophies a bit and adjust. He was lucky he got extended while things were rosy but don’t underestimate the importance of major failure in learning, and I wouldn’t be discouraged by his age as well, lots of 52 year olds in high stress jobs are in their professional primes


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

The contract extension was given with the full knowledge that the club would need some level of rebuilding, and that they wanted someone to see it through to completion. To avoid the sack the coach speculation, the extension fitted what would be required to become realistic finalists again; 2020.

 

[theGav56]

Maybe. No harm in expanding your thinking!

But RTB throws his hands up in the pressor after last game saying players have to "own their own" skills. Not his problem is it? Then in the only two Perth training sessions this week about 75-80% of the time is spent on SKILL drills. Edit for clarity: One session was 100% skills, the other around 50-60%, so I'm averaging the two sessions. This doesn't come from Ross given his public stand on skills and my mental gymnastics can hear a Bell ringing.

Secondly the game plan hasn't changed for the last three years and players are told just to try harder, until game 1 this season. We may have been playing against witches hats but for that team it was very effective. The only coaching change was Montagna being added to Freo as a "opposition analysist" and Ross publically thanking him after the game.

Back to the usual defensive chaos ball for the next three games until this game with the attacking style and forward structure of game 1. The ground being longer and wider than any other we play doesn't support our usual zone press, but that didn't stop repeatidly trying it in the past without success.

Just a guess but I think the opposition analyst had an influence in our structure and tactics for this game.

I don't think you always get to play the way you want to, and with a team like GWS who tend towards attacking, perhaps it is easier to play your preferred style. No doubt that defence will always be important, and you see that in pretty much every team.

Monocle makes a good point about us having a young list, plus having a substantially revamped forward line equating to an emphasis on game plan. I;m looking at drafting and seeing the likes of Bewley, Valente and Sturt all being recruited because of their skills in a deliberate effort to improve that aspect of our game.

 

[Joao]

I distinguish Ross from Eade etc type coaches in that they slowly faded into irrelevance whereas Ross experienced the big crash of 2016 and probably had to take stock of his actions and philosophies a bit and adjust. He was lucky he got extended while things were rosy but don’t underestimate the importance of major failure in learning, and I wouldn’t be discouraged by his age as well, lots of 52 year olds in high stress jobs are in their professional primes


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Age is just a number. If you are good enough you are young enough.

If it was really a problem, Fagan was doomed from the start. He is 5 years older than Ross.

 

[Cesoir]

Wow, two training sessions and our skills have improved out of sight. A couple more sessions focused purely on skills and we will be like Hawthorn, one more week and we'll be unbeatable.

Why the **** have they focused so much on implementing a new game plan when all it took was two good skills sessions.

Useless clowns!

 

[theGav56]

Interesting couple of games coming up, both against teams where the fans are struggling with their respective coaches. Beveridge getting an absolute caning despite being a recent premiership coach. Pyke getting hammered too although today's result will give some respite. Hard to believe he was runner up coach of the year just a few seasons back. Both well and truly on the nose now.

It really is not looking so silly that if Lyon demonstrates this season that he has produced a productive, attacking game plan, and that he has successfully rebuilt the list, that he would not be considered for a range of clubs. In contrast, I wouldn't be looking at Beveridge or Pyke at this stage.

 

[Joao]

Interesting couple of games coming up, both against teams where the fans are struggling with their respective coaches. Beveridge getting an absolute caning despite being a recent premiership coach. Pyke getting hammered too although today's result will give some respite. Hard to believe he was runner up coach of the year just a few seasons back. Both well and truly on the nose now.

It really is not looking so silly that if Lyon demonstrates this season that he has produced a productive, attacking game plan, and that he has successfully rebuilt the list, that he would not be considered for a range of clubs. In contrast, I wouldn't be looking at Beveridge or Pyke at this stage.

Definitely not Pyke. Don't usually just repeat media drivel but in his case they are right, dude has no plan B. Just sits in his box hoping they player will get it done. You almost never see him making phone calls or chatting to the assistants. Has no idea when it doesn't go his way. In 2017 it was fine because they were so good most games that teams couldn't stop them. In the GF, the Tigers did and just rolled over the top of them.

Bevo I don't know. Still yet to have a team with an actual forward line. Would think he could do some damage with the right players.

 

[theGav56]

Definitely not Pyke. Don't usually just repeat media drivel but in his case they are right, dude has no plan B. Just sits in his box hoping they player will get it done. You almost never see him making phone calls or chatting to the assistants. Has no idea when it doesn't go his way. In 2017 it was fine because they were so good most games that teams couldn't stop them. In the GF, the Tigers did and just rolled over the top of them.

Bevo I don't know. Still yet to have a team with an actual forward line. Would think he could do some damage with the right players.

Have you had a look at their Board? Makes our anti-Rossers look like mildly disgruntled fans.

 

[tacopavlich]

Have you had a look at their Board? Makes our anti-Rossers look like mildly disgruntled fans.

It's ubiquitous with bigfooty in general, it's really bizarre. It's so funny to me reading people trying to delineate what are the causal factors for us suddenly executing an attacking game plan, whether Lyon had a sudden epiphany kicking goals wins games, Bell, Montagna, etc. when the last few years we've had an extremely young unbalanced side made up of under 50 gamers and no forwards. I have no idea what people were expecting lol

 

[theGav56]

It's ubiquitous with bigfooty in general, it's really bizarre. It's so funny to me reading people trying to delineate what are the causal factors for us suddenly executing an attacking game plan, whether Lyon had a sudden epiphany kicking goals wins games, Bell, Montagna, etc. when the last few years we've had an extremely young unbalanced side made up of under 50 gamers and no forwards. I have no idea what people were expecting lol

Apparently they did some skills practice last week.

 

[LeftFootBanana]

Apparently they did some skills practice last week.

I heard Tabs wagged it and went to the waterslide

 

[theGav56]

Hey, remember this ol' thread?

Thought I'd dust it off with a little update.

What has happened over the past 2 games in which we squeaked past the opposition in the the last milliseconds of each game has reinforced the core points of the OP which is;

that;

• the fallacy about the game plan not changing (even when the entire list has been in transition) has been shown up.
• the charge that Lyon can't run a game plan that delivers a winning score looks vacuous now.
• the mantra that Lyon only knows dour, defensive football has been exposed.
• he has laid out the case that the timeframe of 2020 is quite realistic.
• that the rebuild begins with a complete overhaul of defence, a rewire and restock of the midfield, and topped off with a rejig of the forward line was planned and is being implemented is shown to be sound, logical and on track

The situation now is that there is virtually no scenario where Lyon's contract is in danger of not being fulfilled, and the likelihood of an extension has ramped up significantly. The club will be well aware that some clubs will be looking for a senior coach who may be get-able. They will not want Lyon to be considered get-able.

The conversation about Lyon's coaching future could quickly become about Fremantle needing to lock him in. It is abundantly clear that the players want that, and record of 2 wins against the 3 top 4 teams we have played this season speaks volumes for where the club has positioned itself.

The other point that is very clear is the upside still latent in this rebuilt list.

 

[Nodgey]

I told you so.

[emoji6]

 

[Clems Knee]

Remember in Lyon’s first year, the team played very well in the first game to beat reigning premiers Geelong in a close high scoring game.

Then the scoring dried up, including in the first derby where Freo scored just 36 points. Freo didn’t score 100 points again until round 16 but then did it again and again, making the finals and shocking Geelong at the MCG in the process. Oh, and Pav outscored the Eagles in the second derby.

My point is that the new game plan worked after a preseason of concentrating on it, but it needed to be bedded down by players so that it stood up week after week. That took some time.

No doubt if we lose a few games on the trot, or the game play isn’t as scintillating as yesterday, the same old whingers will sound the alarm shrilly. My advice would be to be patient. The boys would have gained a lot of confidence from their actions yesterday, but they will need to reinforce their confidence with further wins before we see games like yesterday week in, week out.

Told you so

 

[theGav56]

Told you so

In fact, so accurate that I almost blame you!

 

[theGav56]

Just a little update here.

Even though at the start of the thread I wasn't actually advocating extending Lyon's contract, it is getting to a point where that needs to be discussed.

This game showed that Lyon is in the upper echelons of the AFL coaching fraternity. Brilliant work in the pre-game preparation, the planning and in the box today. He has us in finals contention, but more importantly he has delivered a side and game plan which has us primed for finals for the foreseeable future. We are playing lively, aggressive football and continue to improve.

There is virtually no risk that the club will end his contract. There is some risk that other clubs will pursue him.

I think it is now a good time for the club to create certainty around our coaching set-up.

 

[Cesoir]

Just a little update here.

Even though at the start of the thread I wasn't actually advocating extending Lyon's contract, it is getting to a point where that needs to be discussed.

This game showed that Lyon is in the upper echelons of the AFL coaching fraternity. Brilliant work in the pre-game preparation, the planning and in the box today. He has us in finals contention, but more importantly he has delivered a side and game plan which has us primed for finals for the foreseeable future. We are playing lively, aggressive football and continue to improve.

There is virtually no risk that the club will end his contract. There is some risk that other clubs will pursue him.

I think it is now a good time for the club to create certainty around our coaching set-up.

I wouldn't be in favour of extending his contract before next season, but I'm sure there are lots of discussions taking place behind closed doors - along the lines of "don't do anything without talking to us first".

Ross would know that as long as the team continues to improve his future at Fremantle is secure - as it should be!

 

[Mudd]

A month is a long time in football, if the season continues in this downward spiral I wonder how much weight Bell and the board will place on the pre bye results.

 

[theGav56]

A month is a long time in football, if the season continues in this downward spiral I wonder how much weight Bell and the board will place on the pre bye results.

Yes, the OP prediction is taking a hammering at the moment.

The people who review the coach will do what they should do, which is look at results in context. Pre-bye we were closer to our full list, so that would be considered. They will factor in injuries which is certainly hitting us at the moment. But beyond that I can't say the response has been positive from the coach or the club. There has been things tried, but none of it has worked and become something to even remotely celebrate.

In terms of the OP things have slipped back a bit. I still think the club gets through this season, regroups, and goes into next season with a fit list and some optimism. Also a little difficult to see what can be salvaged from this season, but I think the remainder should be about debuts and development (not focused on getting to 10 wins). If we can get a couple of games into Carter, Valente and perhaps Dixon and Sturt, that would be a small achievement.

I also hope it goes into the season with a sidekick in the coaches box who they feel confident to take over if required. My move would be to work as hard as possible to persuade both Longmuir and Glass to join as assistants.

 

[apuchar]

Yes, the OP prediction is taking a hammering at the moment.

The people who review the coach will do what they should do, which is look at results in context. Pre-bye we were closer to our full list, so that would be considered. They will factor in injuries which is certainly hitting us at the moment. But beyond that I can't say the response has been positive from the coach or the club. There has been things tried, but none of it has worked and become something to even remotely celebrate.

In terms of the OP things have slipped back a bit. I still think the club gets through this season, regroups, and goes into next season with a fit list and some optimism. Also a little difficult to see what can be salvaged from this season, but I think the remainder should be about debuts and development (not focused on getting to 10 wins). If we can get a couple of games into Carter, Valente and perhaps Dixon and Sturt, that would be a small achievement.

I also hope it goes into the season with a sidekick in the coaches box who they feel confident to take over if required. My move would be to work as hard as possible to persuade both Longmuir and Glass to join as assistants.

Why would any decent assistant coach come to Freo under Ross unless they are the heir apparent.

 

[theGav56]

Why would any decent assistant coach come to Freo under Ross unless they are the heir apparent.

Not sure why assistant coaches move, but "a sidekick in the coaches box who they feel confident to take over if required" is another phrase for heir apparent.

 

[apuchar]

Not sure why assistant coaches move, but "a sidekick in the coaches box who they feel confident to take over if required" is another phrase for heir apparent.

I think it would have to be when required, not if required. Otherwise it would be sensible to stay where you are.

 

[theGav56]

I think it would have to be when required, not if required. Otherwise it would be sensible to stay where you are.

If Lyon agrees to a transitional position, no problems. Assistant coaches have to support the Senior Coach as their primary role.