List Mgmt. Squad reduction

[eastfreo75]

Yes. Smaller lists mean lesss development/project players. You are much more likely to be expected to come in and play.

Guys who could football at junior level but don’t have the right athletic profile — think Neale or Daniels @ Bulldogs — would probably have to do a lot of hard years in the semi-pros to prove they can make it in adult footy before getting picked up, if they ever do.

Same with good juniors who had injuries, like Burton or Valente. Left-field project players like Sandilands, Cox, Kennelly, etc would never get a call up, let alone guys like Taberner or Hughes

You make a lot of sense.

I think the AFL is a bit short sighted but maybe they have to in the short term.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

You make a lot of sense.

I think the AFL is a bit short sighted but maybe they have to in the short term.

I think a truly ambitious league would always be looking to increase the number of 100% professional footballers.
Even if most of them were on a little less money.
A healthy professional game should be aiming for 2,000 full-time pros. Most if those guys won't be playing AFL seniors each week, but that is OK.
After all the AFL can only be the pinnacle, if there is a strong enough base for "top" league to be meaningful.
Lots of pro footballers means lots of pathways too. This encourages talented teenagers to choose football over other pro sports as there are more options to make a pro career.

 

[Taylor]

The AFL should expect to lose footballers if they cut list sizes. Not from AFL lists but from the game. If there is a Tim Kelly or Marlion Pickett hoping to earn his chance at an AFL club well he just saw another 100 or so already AFL listed players get dumped back down to the 2nd tier to compete alongside him for 30% less spots.

I wouldn't be surprised if the WAFL becomes a game of 19, 20, 21 and 29 year olds with the middle block going to find a job while they can. I know those guys all work already but you know it's going nowhere now. Young guys hoping and old guys trying to make the most of whats left of the salary cap at WAFL level.

 

[eastfreo75]

The AFL should expect to lose footballers if they cut list sizes. Not from AFL lists but from the game. If there is a Tim Kelly or Marlion Pickett hoping to earn his chance at an AFL club well he just saw another 100 or so already AFL listed players get dumped back down to the 2nd tier to compete alongside him for 30% less spots.

I wouldn't be surprised if the WAFL becomes a game of 19, 20, 21 and 29 year olds with the middle block going to find a job while they can. I know those guys all work already but you know it's going nowhere now. Young guys hoping and old guys trying to make the most of whats left of the salary cap at WAFL level.

Money wise is better to play country footy and hold a full time job than play WAFL.

 

[PurpleReign95]

So talk is squads may be reduced to 35 or maybe 38.

Assume no draft in 2020, who do you cut if we had to go 38, and then who would be the next 3 if we went to 35?

Currently there are 47 on the list. First 9 to go, then next 3. For mine:

All the rookies:

1. North
2. Carter
3. Butters
4. Thomas
5. Watson
6. Pina
7. O’Reilly.... plus
8. Mundy (hurts to say but I think he would retire anyway at his age, to give younger guys a go)
9. One of Schultz (most likely him)/Matera/Switkowski (keep the other two)
   
   Then:
10. Banfield
11. Giro
12. Crowden

Thoughts?

The problem with Giro and Crowden is they both signed Long Term Deals!

 

[ImperialPurple]

The problem with Giro and Crowden is they both signed Long Term Deals!

Neither are long-term AFL players imo

 

[eastfreo75]

The problem with Giro and Crowden is they both signed Long Term Deals!

I never understand why we sign up players long term when are not best 22.

Look at Hawthorn, anybody outside of say the best 25 is on an one year contract. Except drafted players, they are on a 2 year contract.

 

[Superkoops]

Neither are long-term AFL players imo

Whilst you are likely correct unfortunately both have a year to run on contract (to the end of 2021). With clubs struggling financially that is indeed a lifeline for those under contract like Giro, Crowden and Colyer.

I’m going to agree with the theories put out there that Cat-A rookie list will go but the main list might squeeze a little but not much. Also believe the Cat-B rookie list will stay and become the Rookie list (that is, Irish, Academy not picked up in the ND, Or players from other sports).

So what clubs will have to decide with a modified ND (either restricted 18-year old selections or no 18-year olds) is how many selections to have and how many current rookies to upgrade to the primary list or otherwise delist.

Those who will face decisions on at the end of this season because of their contract status:
Primary List:
Bailey Banfield (OOC 2020) - ??
Lachie Schultz (OOC 2020) - Unlucky
Brett Bewley (OOC 2020) - Re-sign
Cam McCarthy (OOC 2020) - ??
Brandon Matera (OOC 2020) - ??
Luke Valente (OOC 2020) - ??
David Mundy (OOC 2020) - Retire

Cat-A Rookies
Toby Watson (OOC 2020) - Unlucky
Jarvis Pina (OOC 2020) - ??
Dillon O’Reilly (OOC 2020) - Unlucky
Thomas North (OOC 2020) - Delist
Hugh Dixon (OOC 2020) - Delist

Cat-B Rookies
Jason Carter (OOC 2020) - Remain Cat-B
Izzy Butters (OOC 2020) - Remain Cat-B
Leno Thomas (OOC 2020) - Delist

Those underlined and with ?? have what’s left of the season to show us whether they are worth Re-signing. So do those with unlucky but up against it for mine. I like what I have seen from Pina and Valente but both are up against it as well.

A lot will depend on the primary list size. If it is for eg. 40 Primary + Cat-B rookies. We can get away with delisting only 3 from the primary list, with 3 new draftees and promoting a rookie (ie say Pina or Watson).

 

[Docker82]

Whilst you are likely correct unfortunately both have a year to run on contract (to the end of 2021). With clubs struggling financially that is indeed a lifeline for those under contract like Giro, Crowden and Colyer.

I’m going to agree with the theories put out there that Cat-A rookie list will go but the main list might squeeze a little but not much. Also believe the Cat-B rookie list will stay and become the Rookie list (that is, Irish, Academy not picked up in the ND, Or players from other sports).

So what clubs will have to decide with a modified ND (either restricted 18-year old selections or no 18-year olds) is how many selections to have and how many current rookies to upgrade to the primary list or otherwise delist.

Those who will face decisions on at the end of this season because of their contract status:
Primary List:
Bailey Banfield (OOC 2020) - ??
Lachie Schultz (OOC 2020) - Unlucky
Brett Bewley (OOC 2020) - Re-sign
Cam McCarthy (OOC 2020) - ??
Brandon Matera (OOC 2020) - ??
Luke Valente (OOC 2020) - ??
David Mundy (OOC 2020) - Retire

Cat-A Rookies
Toby Watson (OOC 2020) - Unlucky
Jarvis Pina (OOC 2020) - ??
Dillon O’Reilly (OOC 2020) - Unlucky
Thomas North (OOC 2020) - Delist
Hugh Dixon (OOC 2020) - Delist

Cat-B Rookies
Jason Carter (OOC 2020) - Remain Cat-B
Izzy Butters (OOC 2020) - Remain Cat-B
Leno Thomas (OOC 2020) - Delist

Those underlined and with ?? have what’s left of the season to show us whether they are worth Re-signing. So do those with unlucky but up against it for mine. I like what I have seen from Pina and Valente but both are up against it as well.

A lot will depend on the primary list size. If it is for eg. 40 Primary + Cat-B rookies. We can get away with delisting only 3 from the primary list, with 3 new draftees and promoting a rookie (ie say Pina or Watson).

A lot will depend on the Draft imo.

If there’s no footy other than AFL for most of the season then I can’t see how we have one involving 18 year olds tbh.

The cuts in this scenario would mainly come from retirees and rookie listed players. Clubs like Richmond who’d keep a number of players on their rookie list over senior listed players may trade depth players for peanuts to keep Pickett, Baker etc who remain on their rookie list.

Not sure how trade period would work but I couldn’t see one not happening as there’s still players out of contract. Perhaps we’re trading with future picks and players only. Perhaps 2020 picks traded last year roll over to 2021.

The draft would essentially remain as a top up only, perhaps almost entirely in the form of the Pre Season Supplement rule.

Agree that Category B rookies will remain. If the draft for 18 year olds doesn’t happen I see no reason to delist Thomas tbh. Can’t see too many clubs going for the more expensive Category B rookies (international, players from other sports etc) too regularly in the first 2-3 years.

 

[WilloTree]

Whilst you are likely correct unfortunately both have a year to run on contract (to the end of 2021). With clubs struggling financially that is indeed a lifeline for those under contract like Giro, Crowden and Colyer.

I’m going to agree with the theories put out there that Cat-A rookie list will go but the main list might squeeze a little but not much. Also believe the Cat-B rookie list will stay and become the Rookie list (that is, Irish, Academy not picked up in the ND, Or players from other sports).

So what clubs will have to decide with a modified ND (either restricted 18-year old selections or no 18-year olds) is how many selections to have and how many current rookies to upgrade to the primary list or otherwise delist.

Those who will face decisions on at the end of this season because of their contract status:
Primary List:
Bailey Banfield (OOC 2020) - ??
Lachie Schultz (OOC 2020) - Unlucky
Brett Bewley (OOC 2020) - Re-sign
Cam McCarthy (OOC 2020) - ??
Brandon Matera (OOC 2020) - ??
Luke Valente (OOC 2020) - ??
David Mundy (OOC 2020) - Retire

Cat-A Rookies
Toby Watson (OOC 2020) - Unlucky
Jarvis Pina (OOC 2020) - ??
Dillon O’Reilly (OOC 2020) - Unlucky
Thomas North (OOC 2020) - Delist
Hugh Dixon (OOC 2020) - Delist

Cat-B Rookies
Jason Carter (OOC 2020) - Remain Cat-B
Izzy Butters (OOC 2020) - Remain Cat-B
Leno Thomas (OOC 2020) - Delist

Those underlined and with ?? have what’s left of the season to show us whether they are worth Re-signing. So do those with unlucky but up against it for mine. I like what I have seen from Pina and Valente but both are up against it as well.

A lot will depend on the primary list size. If it is for eg. 40 Primary + Cat-B rookies. We can get away with delisting only 3 from the primary list, with 3 new draftees and promoting a rookie (ie say Pina or Watson).

Jason Carter is on the main list (not Cat B). Freo will have to make a call at the end of this year as he is also coming out of contract.

 

[Taylor]

Jason Carter is on the main list (not Cat B). Freo will have to make a call at the end of this year as he is also coming out of contract.

He agreed to a year extension on the category B list as far as I remember. Never upgraded to the senior list, was temporarily upgraded during the season as required to play as a Cat B.

 

[Joao]

Carter is defs cat B.

 

[Docker82]

He agreed to a year extension on the category B list as far as I remember. Never upgraded to the senior list, was temporarily upgraded during the season as required to play as a Cat B.

There’s 39 senior listed players and five rookies not including Carter. 44 is the maximum amount allowed for lists outside of Category B rookies.

He’s a Category B rookie - simple as that. He’ll be useful next year if Category B rookies remain but lists are cut imo.

 

[Taylor]

Its the first year I've actually tracked the rookies on my spreadsheet on the list depth thread so we better be correct

 

[Alfonz]

A lot will depend on the Draft imo.

If there’s no footy other than AFL for most of the season then I can’t see how we have one involving 18 year olds tbh.

There is absolutely zero chance of not having a regular draft. It's just going to be more pot luck than usual, but it's honestly not far off throwing darts anyway.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

I never understand why we sign up players long term when are not best 22.

Look at Hawthorn, anybody outside of say the best 25 is on an one year contract. Except drafted players, they are on a 2 year contract.

Back in 2016 we had DeBoer & Barlow on short deals but Suban and D.Pearce on long term deals. When they decided to turn over the list, the wrong guys were delisted as a result.
We may be in a similar position later this year.

 

[eastfreo75]

Back in 2016 we had DeBoer & Barlow on short deals but Suban and D.Pearce on long term deals. When they decided to turn over the list, the wrong guys were delisted as a result.
We may be in a similar position later this year.

It’s frustrating when you see the same issue over and over again.

I just don’t get how Giro,Crowden, Meek, Switkowski, and Duman all get two year extensions.

 

[ImperialPurple]

There is absolutely zero chance of not having a regular draft. It's just going to be more pot luck than usual, but it's honestly not far off throwing darts anyway.

There was talk of raising the draft age by a year, so all this year’s crop won’t be of age till next year, and all future drafts get pushed back a year by age, so no one misses out and there’s always an opportunity for the same number of players, they’re just a year older.
They’d have to raise the under-aged comps to 19s instead of 18s, but would that be a problem?

Back in 2016 we had DeBoer & Barlow on short deals but Suban and D.Pearce on long term deals. When they decided to turn over the list, the wrong guys were delisted as a result.
We may be in a similar position later this year.

Remember how livid everyone was when that happened? And remember how Suban was in a 4 year deal at the time, which gobsmacked everyone when it was announced.

It’s frustrating when you see the same issue over and over again.

I just don’t get how Giro,Crowden, Meek, Switkowski, and Duman all get two year extensions.

Duman the only one who should have got 2 years. Giro, Crowden not up to it. Not too against Meek, as a developing / back up ruck is useful, and if Switta could actually hit the scoreboard he could be decent. But right now, Duman at a push is the only one worth 2 years. Who is going to come and swoop Giro, Crowden or Meek from under our noses with godfather offers to move clubs? It’s not like we’re protecting super-valuable assets. And contracts mean f**k all from a player’s perspective anyway.

 

[Inveigh Slang]

The problem with Giro and Crowden is they both signed Long Term Deals!

I've never seen anything with Giro to think he'll ever make it as a best 22 player. Even at WAFL, he's been average.

 

[Superkoops]

A lot will depend on the Draft imo.

If there’s no footy other than AFL for most of the season then I can’t see how we have one involving 18 year olds tbh.

The draft would essentially remain as a top up only, perhaps almost entirely in the form of the Pre Season Supplement rule.

I think there has to be a draft with at least some 18 year olds. Maybe a limit of 2 per club. If there is no drafting of U18’s then it will negatively affect many clubs in a massive way based on 2019 trades. Geelong for eg traded in 3 first rounders whilst West Coast have none. North Melbourne (traded out of 2019 1st round to get another 1st round in 2020), Adelaide and Brisbane all have two first-round selections.

Draft doubts could ruin Cats’ haul for Tim Kelly. Here’s where your club sits

Years of clever trading may have been a complete waste. Here’s why your club could be nervous

www.foxsports.com.au

If ND is replaced with effectively a supplementary / top up selections then the picks for 2020 will need to slide through to 2021 and ladder positions that influence traded picks to be based on 2021 season.

 

[FreoRicci]

Going to be a harsh off season, if we ever seen one. Incredible circumstances.
Here’s what could happen:

Dixon - sad, shows promise. Needed this season to ramp up how fitness for WAFL and who knows.

Schulz- meh. Sure he can be fit and kick occasional goals. Doesn’t have th pace and goal sneak about him.
Hill? - asked to retire could be a possibility.

Mundy- probably time up unfortunately.
Meek?- is he contracted end of 2020 or 21. He’s not really going to be a requirement. Our rucks suck right now.

North- again, another unfortunate causality. Can show anything. Inside bull. Serong probably takes his spot now.

Watson- very close to debuting round 1. Think he has the tools to be a good solid back man. But with contracts to Duman, Ryan and Hughes, he ll be forced to leave .

Carter- would be horrid if he doesn’t get signed on. Shows promise and a few more full pre seasons. Better then Duman tbh. But his contract is an issue.

Banfield- will be delisted. Good option for high half forward but there’s talent through the middle and he ll be like North, unfortunate.

Hope McCarthy is resigned. He has proved his worth. Can kick, goals when he’s on.

Bewley will be re signed too. Only winger we have really, once Langdon and Hill left.

Absolute awful signings, in hindsight, with Giro, Crowden, Colyer. Give them one year, see how they go. Two? Royalty screws a lot of talent. Not much at all to work with them three. All small, have needs that are already fulfilled ahead of them. Called up with a heavy injury list. Didn’t learn from Suban and Pearce 2 years it seems.. Wonder what De Boer and Barlow are up to.

 

[FreoRicci]

There was talk of raising the draft age by a year, so all this year’s crop won’t be of age till next year, and all future drafts get pushed back a year by age, so no one misses out and there’s always an opportunity for the same number of players, they’re just a year older.
They’d have to raise the under-aged comps to 19s instead of 18s, but would that be a problem?


Remember how livid everyone was when that happened? And remember how Suban was in a 4 year deal at the time, which gobsmacked everyone when it was announced.



Duman the only one who should have got 2 years. Giro, Crowden not up to it. Not too against Meek, as a developing / back up ruck is useful, and if Switta could actually hit the scoreboard he could be decent. But right now, Duman at a push is the only one worth 2 years. Who is going to come and swoop Giro, Crowden or Meek from under our noses with godfather offers to move clubs? It’s not like we’re protecting super-valuable assets. And contracts mean f**k all from a player’s perspective anyway.

Duman should’ve got one as well. Hardly doing much improvement. Hughes was forced to work his way in, on a rookie list. Significantly better then Duman. Just the way contracts work I guess

 

[FreoRicci]

Are posters seriously wanting Valente cut?

He is an absolute talent. Some young players under injury clouds end up guns. I'd take the chance on him.

The older statesmen will have to move on and a few rookies.

I still think there will be a draft but it will be very brief. Once the AFL decides on list number then wait for list cuts and trade week. Then the AFL can see how many list spots in total across all clubs and go with that.

Let's say most clubs have only 1 list spot available with a number of clubs two. There might be up to 25 players drafted.

100% agree. He’s a top 10 pick, was grateful he was available at 32. You don’t just throw that away, when he’s in his 2nd year. Like at how great Sturt was. Same draft year too. Have to keep the 1-4 year players, as they’re the ones to build a premiership around.
Banfield, Schulz, should be gone before him

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Crazy thing about signing Giro and Crowden (and also Meek) to multi-year deals is that even if you think they are bona-fide 200 game players (I don't , but even if _you_ did), what was the rush? Who was ever going to poach them from under our nose?

Sure you sign up a guy like Cerra to a long-term deal because you know other clubs will come asking questions.

But Giro, Crowden and Meek? I doubt it.

 

[Joao]

I don't think you are being honest with yourself if you think Carter should stay on but the likes of Duman should definitely go. Carter looked completely out of his depth in his AFL outings. A lot of those other blokes at least looked like they could play the level. Duman especially has played genuinely good games at AFL level.