St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[Mat Mann]

I have already said aid remove the discount. No need for anything else. However it has to be across the board F/S, NGA too

No dramas, now increase the cost for clubs to jump the queue

The last few drafts has shown the price for trading high into the draft, Melbourne sent 28, 40, 46, 54 and 65 as well as a future 1st, note also the Essendon wanted points for Kako (NGA- pick 15) Dogs paid 3 1sts to get 4 off the suns the year before 10, 17 and future 1st. Carlton paid a future 1st and future 2nd for pick 14 from the hawks.

Go back to 2016 and St Kilda acquire a future first round pick and two second round picks(Hawthorn) – currently No. 23 and No. 36 – in exchange for pick No. 10 and No. 68.

So it’s not something that just started happening

That’s the cost. Not a collection of (now to be) mid 2nd’s for a top 5 pick.

 

[StevoJenkins]

That’s laughable. In the last five years. Who’s had the better list. St Kilda or GCS?

GCS has never had a talent issue, they’ve been as mismanaged as my club yet we’ve still scraped into 2 finals series, yet my club get slaughtered because we have no stars and the suns are scoffed at because they can’t get their talent to produce.

Such a terrible argument

Does the list matter if you don't make finals with it?

The Suns might have a better list, but they've done three thirds of bugger all with it, whilst also being a feeder club for the rest of the AFL for their entire existence.

The Saints, at the very least, have one premiership to their name and, I'm assuming, have made finals before (last time in 2020).

The post you quoted was me responding to a results based argument, where the poster was using the Sun's current position in the 8 (which isn't guaranteed to last) as an argument against them having more high draft picks.

That is a weak argument, as the Sun's have objectively achieved nothing in the AFL historically, based on results. You call my post laughable, but did you read what I was responding to?

Might want to read it again before grading my comment (notice how I didn't say argument, as I didn't really make one) as "terrible".

Now let's focus on your post. Have Gold Coast had talent? Yes. Have they done anything with it? No.

Your club doesn't get slaughtered because it has no stars. The club has historically been unlucky with both drafting and trading players. King on a long term deal, throwing money at any B/B+ grader who moves and drafting duds like McCartin has been the reason. The Saint's have also, arguably, not picked good coaches recently, so much so that they've gone back to getting a shallow shell of Ross the boss back in the drivers seat.

All of the above is the reason the Saints are having issues. It's not the draft, it's not academies or father-sons, it's bad management across the board with list management and coaching.

 

[Mat Mann]

Collingwood used Picks 38, 40, 42, and 44 to match the bid on Daicos at 4.

To match it with picks in the 30’s they’d now need approx. 28, 30, 32, and 34. That’s a sizeable difference - those aren’t nothing picks.

Another way to view it, if you were required to use a pick within say, 6 places, they previously could’ve have done 10 and 53. That is now 10 and 28. If the discount goes to 0%, it’s 10 and 22.

Both of these things (requiring a picking within a certain proximity, and 0 discount) may well occur at some point.

Ofc there not nothing picks, but no club in the competition would trade pick 4 for those picks. Dogs paid 3 1sts for pick 4.
The issue is clubs selling out of the 1st round into the following year.

It should cost more to trade up higher in the draft, the only place that doesn’t happen is with NGA/FS and Academy

I doubt many get upset if a clubs uses pick 6-10 to match a top 5 pick, but when for example. Brisbane traded out of pick 20, for a top 5 pick and paid with picks in the 40’s.

The claim was qld/nsw needs more local players, but surely the comp still has to maintain equality of the draft. And we are far from it atm, even under the new curve.

 

[Mat Mann]

Does the list matter if you don't make finals with it?

The Suns might have a better list, but they've done three thirds of bugger all with it, whilst also being a feeder club for the rest of the AFL for their entire existence.

The Saints, at the very least, have one premiership to their name and, I'm assuming, have made finals before (last time in 2020).

The post you quoted was me responding to a results based argument, where the poster was using the Sun's current position in the 8 (which isn't guaranteed to last) as an argument against them having more high draft picks.

That is a weak argument, as the Sun's have objectively achieved nothing in the AFL historically, based on results. You call my post laughable, but did you read what I was responding to?

Might want to read it again before grading my comment (notice how I didn't say argument, as I didn't really make one) as "terrible".

Now let's focus on your post. Have Gold Coast had talent? Yes. Have they done anything with it? No.

Your club doesn't get slaughtered because it has no stars. The club has historically been unlucky with both drafting and trading players. King on a long term deal, throwing money at any B/B+ grader who moves and drafting duds like McCartin has been the reason. The Saint's have also, arguably, not picked good coaches recently, so much so that they've gone back to getting a shallow shell of Ross the boss back in the drivers seat.

All of the above is the reason the Saints are having issues. It's not the draft, it's not academies or father-sons, it's bad management across the board with list management and coaching.

So saints bad because we sign a player who only wants to play for our club, who’s family has a long and strong connection to our club, who contract has get out clauses, games played triggers that he probably won’t meet now, and was happy enough to have his renumeration tailored to suit the clubs financial strategy.
McCartin wasn’t a dud, he proved that at Sydney as a defender, injury ruined the poor bloke before he even got a start, why Sydney were even allowed to play him is the mystifying thing.

Saints hire crap coach’s. what the hell were Eade and Dew????
the hate Ross brings is hilarious, seriously low level analysis stuff, we are 10x better off now than we were 2 years ago
As for throwing contacts around to lure players, suns paid pick 2 for Weller, sold off pick 8 and Bowes( a 1st round player himself). The only club to date allowed to sell draft picks for salary cap.

Last played finals in 2020, dude. Do some research, know what you are talking about

The difference between the 2 clubs, beside about 20 1st round pics, is the AFL stepping in and giving them assistance they haven’t given to any other club.

Saints have and do admit we’ve been shit, drafted poorly, etc.. but this notion that GCS has done nothing wrong and it’s only been the sooky vic kids going home is the laughable bit

 

[paulige]

Ofc there not nothing picks, but no club in the competition would trade pick 4 for those picks. Dogs paid 3 1sts for pick 4.
The issue is clubs selling out of the 1st round into the following year.

It should cost more to trade up higher in the draft, the only place that doesn’t happen is with NGA/FS and Academy

I doubt many get upset if a clubs uses pick 6-10 to match a top 5 pick, but when for example. Brisbane traded out of pick 20, for a top 5 pick and paid with picks in the 40’s.

The claim was qld/nsw needs more local players, but surely the comp still has to maintain equality of the draft. And we are far from it atm, even under the new curve.

I’m not opposed to having to use at least one pick within X places - eventually. It does make the value paid a little clearer and representative of the quality of the player attained.

I just don’t think the academies are producing talent at the point where they require nerfing just yet. In a decade or so, Brisbane have never had a top 10 pick (Hipwood at 14 being the highest). That looks set to change this year. But it’s not like it’s first rounders left right and centre - they’re the exception.

 

[StevoJenkins]

So saints bad because we sign a player who only wants to play for our club, who’s family has a long and strong connection to our club, who contract has get out clauses, games played triggers that he probably won’t meet now, and was happy enough to have his renumeration tailored to suit the clubs financial strategy.
McCartin wasn’t a dud, he proved that at Sydney as a defender, injury ruined the poor bloke before he even got a start, why Sydney were even allowed to play him is the mystifying thing.

Saints hire crap coach’s. what the hell were Eade and Dew????
the hate Ross brings is hilarious, seriously low level analysis stuff, we are 10x better off now than we were 2 years ago
As for throwing contacts around to lure players, suns paid pick 2 for Weller, sold off pick 8 and Bowes( a 1st round player himself). The only club to date allowed to sell draft picks for salary cap.

Last played finals in 2020, dude. Do some research, know what you are talking about

The difference between the 2 clubs, beside about 20 1st round pics, is the AFL stepping in and giving them assistance they haven’t given to any other club.

Saints have and do admit we’ve been shit, drafted poorly, etc.. but this notion that GCS has done nothing wrong and it’s only been the sooky vic kids going home is the laughable bit

No, Saints bad because they bring in players who, clearly, are trophed up and need a good system to get the most out of them, which the Saints aren’t equipped to do.

To call McCartin the person a dud is unfair, to call McCartin the player a draft dud is accurate. No hate towards the guy, but his concussion issues made him a dud of a pick.

For the coaching, I’m aware the Gold Coast failed with their coaching, but notice how I didn’t mention the Suns when I mentioned coaching and the Saints? Maybe there’s a reason for that? Deflection is not the way.

Regarding Ross, I don’t hate the guy, he’s achieved a pretty good record, just as long as you ignore the past 6 seasons of his time at the head.

Don’t particularly care about what the Gold Coast payed to get rid of Bowes, as that has nothing to do with anything I’ve mentioned thus far, nor does Weller’s situation. You are throwing random stuff I haven’t mentioned to clearly rant as an argument.

Don’t care about the Saints finals record. Literally did a quick Google/Wikipedia lookup for their last finals appearance (they came 6th, so I assumed they played finals that year). Wasn’t the point I was making and it had very little to do with the point that the Gold Coast’s high draft picks coming in would cause concern based on ladder position, because (and I’ll try to make this even more clearer for you) the Suns have achieved nothing in their entire history.

For the point on the AFL, they’ve literally been passing out priority picks for a while. They did for North, they’ve done for Brisbane and the Gold coast, they will for West Coast if Allen leaves and they will again in the future. Won’t be in the same form as previous assistance, but that’s different administrations for you.

For your final point, I never said the Suns did anything wrong, but their establishment was completely fumbled on multiple fronts, not only by the club, but also via the AFL. Any stuff-ups they may have made is mostly due to the club being a crap place to be and having to turn itself around. That’s what’s led to the “sooky kids going home” over the years.

 

[Mat Mann]

I’m not opposed to having to use at least one pick within X places - eventually. It does make the value paid a little clearer and representative of the quality of the player attained.

I just don’t think the academies are producing talent at the point where they require nerfing just yet. In a decade or so, Brisbane have never had a top 10 pick (Hipwood at 14 being the highest). That looks set to change this year. But it’s not like it’s first rounders left right and centre - they’re the exception.

3 years ago when the suns had 3 kids in the 1st round. Everyone said oh it’s a one off, it won’t happens again for ages. Blah blah, well here we are 2 years later, we’re set to see a repeat.

I agree that the academies aren’t producing that many kids. GCS have skewed the numbers and appearance. But that doesn’t mean that cost can’t be addressed, and if the cost is representative of the value I outlined earlier. Then that will also address how many can be drafted each year. I know the value won’t get to what it should be, but it’s got to be more than it is now, much more.

Put yourself in our shoes for a second, 15 years, 3 rebuilds, the 1st one heavily compromised by GWS and GCS introductions, the second one where we were pressurised by the AFL to get our act together regarding debt and we felt we couldn’t hit the draft again so we trade like crazy( my opinion). Now the present one where we are back to the draft again, again compromised by the system that sees, and no dig a Brisbane. But your about to get your 5th-6th (most high end) 1st round pick in 4 years whilst playing off in prelims and gf’s. or GCS who are about to nab 7 1st end DP’s in 3 years. Whilst we’ve lost players via FA and haven’t got close to the talent these 2 clubs have. Surely you can see how demoralising that is.

Be better, draft better, We could be the best drafters in history, but if a few clubs get getting the benefits they have, will it even matter how good we are?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

No dramas, now increase the cost for clubs to jump the queue

The last few drafts has shown the price for trading high into the draft, Melbourne sent 28, 40, 46, 54 and 65 as well as a future 1st, note also the Essendon wanted points for Kako (NGA- pick 15) Dogs paid 3 1sts to get 4 off the suns the year before 10, 17 and future 1st. Carlton paid a future 1st and future 2nd for pick 14 from the hawks.

Go back to 2016 and St Kilda acquire a future first round pick and two second round picks(Hawthorn) – currently No. 23 and No. 36 – in exchange for pick No. 10 and No. 68.

So it’s not something that just started happening

That’s the cost. Not a collection of (now to be) mid 2nd’s for a top 5 pick.

They already have- that's what the increases in the index have done this year. It will make it a higher price to pay. That is fair enough no issues. This doesn't need to be complicated, keep the academies, NGA's and F/S but a fairer price, it doesn't need to be the extreme your President seems to think every time. Thankfully Swann won't allow it anyway. Those Suns picks are skewed the were just selling to the highest bidder and were over the odds everyone knows it. Picks are worth 0 after the 3rd round this year, it will be a lot harder to match with what I call 'mid range' selections. It is heaps fairer.

 

[WillHayward]

Saints have some legitimate arguments about looking for ways to equalise the competition .

But big picture is it won't be at the expense of the northern academies.

The talent crisis is real. Unless the AFL can find more AFL standard players from Qld and NSW the national competition will be seriously compromised and in decline.

There is already a serious mismatch between the amount of money available to players and the number of talented players available.
This threatens to be a full blown crisis in the 2030s.

Birthrate falls in Australia’s biggest cities amid cost-of-living crisis, preliminary data shows

Outer-suburban and regional Australians increasingly likely to have more children per person than inner-city residents, report shows

www.theguardian.com

 

[Elixuh]

So saints bad because we sign a player who only wants to play for our club, who’s family has a long and strong connection to our club, who contract has get out clauses, games played triggers that he probably won’t meet now, and was happy enough to have his renumeration tailored to suit the clubs financial strategy.
McCartin wasn’t a dud, he proved that at Sydney as a defender, injury ruined the poor bloke before he even got a start, why Sydney were even allowed to play him is the mystifying thing.

Saints hire crap coach’s. what the hell were Eade and Dew????
the hate Ross brings is hilarious, seriously low level analysis stuff, we are 10x better off now than we were 2 years ago
As for throwing contacts around to lure players, suns paid pick 2 for Weller, sold off pick 8 and Bowes( a 1st round player himself). The only club to date allowed to sell draft picks for salary cap.

Last played finals in 2020, dude. Do some research, know what you are talking about

The difference between the 2 clubs, beside about 20 1st round pics, is the AFL stepping in and giving them assistance they haven’t given to any other club.

Saints have and do admit we’ve been shit, drafted poorly, etc.. but this notion that GCS has done nothing wrong and it’s only been the sooky vic kids going home is the laughable bit

Dew was a good coach at the Suns. Poor comment. Do better.

 

[Broski]

Dew was a good coach at the Suns. Poor comment. Do better.

Sorry mate, but Dew may have been a good bloke, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest he was a good head coach. In a results driven busy, he had one 'okay' season from 2018-23 where he finished 12th. Great assistant maybe.

I am not going to try and sling mud at clubs and say this or that, but the Suns operate in a different environment than most other clubs. They have had a perpetual safety net throughout their entire existence, but will keep getting better due to the draft.

You may disagree, but the Suns' academy will continue to produce high-quality talent consistently well into the future now after the investment that has been put in. I don't buy the "they haven't played finals, so let them have this one thing".

Because, there will - not an if - be a time in the near future where the Suns become a perpetual premiership contender and will continue to be topped up by 2-3 talents that aren't available to any other club. The AFL and QLD will be stoked.

I will tell you what will likely happen this year. If the Eagles get a compo pick (likely pick 2) for Oscar Allen, they will likely trade it to the Suns for its later first rounders and beat the bids of clubs like St Kilda for its academy players.

This means they get all first round academy players - which many of them are considered the best in the country - while also stealing an A-Grade talent that is available in the open pool.

Again, I am not against the academies that the non-traditional states have, but there needs to be some fine tuning because it will destroy arguably the only tool that lower market teams have to recruit elite talent.

I will also add that Father/Son and NGAs shouldn't exist. The former apparently is supposed to add "romance" to the game, but that feeling apparently is felt at 100 games, but not 99.

A player could play 95 games, be a 2xAA, win multiple B&Fs and win a Brownlow, but the romance wouldn't be there if their son made it because they didn't reach the magical number. While a plodder could play 102 unremarkable games and qualify.

I will put a Saints lens on it. Nick Riewoldt's kids - who people believe are a certainty to play AFL despite not being old enough to do their times tables - shouldn't be gifted to St Kilda. They should be available to every club and if they really wanted to play for the Saints, then they can request a trade to the club and compensate the other club. Simple.

Finally, everyone knows the NGA system is a mess and is taking the urine. So I won't bore you with that. Give it back to the AFL and stop the clubs rorting the hell out of it.

 

[Elixuh]

Sorry mate, but Dew may have been a good bloke, but there is absolutely nothing to suggest he was a good head coach. In a results driven busy, he had one 'okay' season from 2018-23 where he finished 12th. Great assistant maybe.

I am not going to try and sling mud at clubs and say this or that, but the Suns operate in a different environment than most other clubs. They have had a perpetual safety net throughout their entire existence, but will keep getting better due to the draft.

You may disagree, but the Suns' academy will continue to produce high-quality talent consistently well into the future now after the investment that has been put in. I don't buy the "they haven't played finals, so let them have this one thing".

Because, there will - not an if - be a time in the near future where the Suns become a perpetual premiership contender and will continue to be topped up by 2-3 talents that aren't available to any other club. The AFL and QLD will be stoked.

I will tell you what will likely happen this year. If the Eagles get a compo pick (likely pick 2) for Oscar Allen, they will likely trade it to the Suns for its later first rounders and beat the bids of clubs like St Kilda for its academy players.

This means they get all first round academy players - which many of them are considered the best in the country - while also stealing an A-Grade talent that is available in the open pool.

Again, I am not against the academies that the non-traditional states have, but there needs to be some fine tuning because it will destroy arguably the only tool that lower market teams have to recruit elite talent.

I will also add that Father/Son and NGAs shouldn't exist. The former apparently is supposed to add "romance" to the game, but that feeling apparently is felt at 100 games, but not 99.

A player could play 95 games, be a 2xAA, win multiple B&Fs and win a Brownlow, but the romance wouldn't be there if their son made it because they didn't reach the magical number. While a plodder could play 102 unremarkable games and qualify.

I will put a Saints lens on it. Nick Riewoldt's kids - who people believe are a certainty to play AFL despite not being old enough to do their times tables - shouldn't be gifted to St Kilda. They should be available to every club and if they really wanted to play for the Saints, then they can request a trade to the club and compensate the other club. Simple.

Finally, everyone knows the NGA system is a mess and is taking the urine. So I won't bore you with that. Give it back to the AFL and stop the clubs rorting the hell out of it.

When Dew took over the Suns they were a basket case, a laughing stock, they didn’t have any identifiable brand, they couldn’t play consistent football and they were bleeding talent every season.

Dew stopped the bleeding of talent to a large extent, got them playing a contested and identifiable brand of football and had them on an upwards trajectory based on the usual metrics.

Dimma did not magically shoot them up the ladder last year. It was continued progression based on where Dew had them the year prior which was continued progression based on the year prior to that. They’ve then progressed further this year.

Calling Dew a poor coach is unacceptable.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You have to love a middling team whinging when they have fixed 90% of the issues. Literally how about for one second we wait to see how this new curve works rather than getting rid of every single pathway for players.

People whinging should literally go and travel to Sydney for instance and see how much of a league town it is, it's worse in schools. Yes it's improving and great but we are still decades away from being near parity if we ever get there. These academies help get players that would otherwise be lost to the game, Heeney wouldn't be playing if it weren't for the academy.

We may be in a position in a decade where we can roll back the academies etc but it's not now, you will need to learn to coexist, and it might help not blowing first rounders (which you have started to do better and that is fantastic). You are getting two of the bigger off contract players this off season too.

 

[Broski]

When Dew took over the Suns they were a basket case, a laughing stock, they didn’t have any identifiable brand, they couldn’t play consistent football and they were bleeding talent every season.

Dew stopped the bleeding of talent to a large extent, got them playing a contested and identifiable brand of football and had them on an upwards trajectory based on the usual metrics.

Dimma did not magically shoot them up the ladder last year. It was continued progression based on where Dew had them the year prior which was continued progression based on the year prior to that. They’ve then progressed further this year.

Calling Dew a poor coach is unacceptable.

Never said he was a poor coach. I said he wasn't a good one. He may have delivered an okay foundation, but to say he saved them from being a laughing stock is a stretch. The Suns have rightly or wrongly been a laughing stock up until arguably this year.

I do not like Dimma, but you are underselling his importance. He has helped change the perception of a being a "laughing stock" to a club serious about winning premierships and being respected by the football world.

They will play finals this year, and I reckon they have everything needed to win a flag. The club's recruiting team has done well in recent times and have not wasted the concessions that have been given to them.

Being essentially given the Rowell/Anderson combo was clearly front of mind from the AFL, considering the success that the Lions got when they implemented similar strategies with McCluggage/Berry to reduce homesickness in Vic kids.

However, I do understand that the pure number of Victorian kids available in the draft will result in some returning home. I think it has got slightly better, and I think it's great we are seeing players see QLD and NSW as a great career move.

What is unacceptable is destroying the purity of the draft to grow the game in non-traditional markets.

I am not saying QLD and NSW don't matter. They matter just as much as VIC, SA, WA etc. However, as soon as money is more important and equity, you become an "entertainment organisation", not a "sporting organisation".

Again, so you can understand that this isn't a targeted attack. The Saints did so many things wrong for the best part of a decade. Poor investment in recruiting and other critical parts of admin.

We have been much better over the past four years or so in all aspects of the club, but we are still paying for that incompetence from those before this current administration. Those we drafted 10 years ago should be driving us today. They are non-existent.

We, like many other small market clubs, need plenty to go right to compete in the current landscape. Zero marquee games, no FAs and consistently having talent leave for the bright lights of the MCG tenants.

That's why the Saints have put their head down to get everything right, so they can improve on-field and get more opportunities to play at the MCG etc to get off the AFL drip.

The environment and past mistakes mean we have to receive financial assistance. Only on-field success will change that. Playing finals in 2023 was great, but we have have cut over 20 players from the list since.

Record membership and continual growth in all facets of the club show we are doing a lot right. Things will turn quickly.

 

[Elixuh]

Never said he was a poor coach. I said he wasn't a good one. He may have delivered an okay foundation, but to say he saved them from being a laughing stock is a stretch. The Suns have rightly or wrongly been a laughing stock up until arguably this year.

I do not like Dimma, but you are underselling his importance. He has helped change the perception of a being a "laughing stock" to a club serious about winning premierships and being respected by the football world.

They will play finals this year, and I reckon they have everything needed to win a flag. The club's recruiting team has done well in recent times and have not wasted the concessions that have been given to them.

Being essentially given the Rowell/Anderson combo was clearly front of mind from the AFL, considering the success that the Lions got when they implemented similar strategies with McCluggage/Berry to reduce homesickness in Vic kids.

However, I do understand that the pure number of Victorian kids available in the draft will result in some returning home. I think it has got slightly better, and I think it's great we are seeing players see QLD and NSW as a great career move.

What is unacceptable is destroying the purity of the draft to grow the game in non-traditional markets.

I am not saying QLD and NSW don't matter. They matter just as much as VIC, SA, WA etc. However, as soon as money is more important and equity, you become an "entertainment organisation", not a "sporting organisation".

Again, so you can understand that this isn't a targeted attack. The Saints did so many things wrong for the best part of a decade. Poor investment in recruiting and other critical parts of admin.

We have been much better over the past four years or so in all aspects of the club, but we are still paying for that incompetence from those before this current administration. Those we drafted 10 years ago should be driving us today. They are non-existent.

We, like many other small market clubs, need plenty to go right to compete in the current landscape. Zero marquee games, no FAs and consistently having talent leave for the bright lights of the MCG tenants.

That's why the Saints have put their head down to get everything right, so they can improve on-field and get more opportunities to play at the MCG etc to get off the AFL drip.

The environment and past mistakes mean we have to receive financial assistance. Only on-field success will change that. Playing finals in 2023 was great, but we have have cut over 20 players from the list since.

Record membership and continual growth in all facets of the club show we are doing a lot right. Things will turn quickly.

Disagree, Dew is an excellent coach.

 

[paulige]

I agree that the academies aren’t producing that many kids. GCS have skewed the numbers and appearance. But that doesn’t mean that cost can’t be addressed, and if the cost is representative of the value I outlined earlier. Then that will also address how many can be drafted each year. I know the value won’t get to what it should be, but it’s got to be more than it is now, much more.

I think you’ve underselling how much impact the change in the points index and the discount being cut to 10% will have. That year GC had 3 high picks - no chance of matching all 3 under the new conditions.

Put yourself in our shoes for a second, 15 years, 3 rebuilds, the 1st one heavily compromised by GWS and GCS introductions, the second one where we were pressurised by the AFL to get our act together regarding debt and we felt we couldn’t hit the draft again so we trade like crazy( my opinion). Now the present one where we are back to the draft again, again compromised by the system that sees, and no dig a Brisbane. But your about to get your 5th-6th (most high end) 1st round pick in 4 years whilst playing off in prelims and gf’s. or GCS who are about to nab 7 1st end DP’s in 3 years. Whilst we’ve lost players via FA and haven’t got close to the talent these 2 clubs have. Surely you can see how demoralising that is.

We rebuilt through the compromised expansion drafts too, all the while losing players to the ‘go-home’ factor. I can’t speak to your second one, I don’t know what your situation was.

As for the last 4 years, these are the players we took:

2024: 5, 25, 42
2023: 31, 42, 51, 64
2022: 2, 12
2021: 16, 20, 41

We also traded out picks to grab Dunkley. In bold are the F/S selections. Had we received them in 2016 nobody would have batted an eye. The timing has been fortunate to say the least.

But clearly, the academies are not the issue. 95% of our benefits have come from the potluck F/S rule. I’ve always liked the rule, even when other clubs are on the receiving end. It is what it is.

Would I be upset if they got rid of it? Yes and no - I’d disagree but move on pretty quickly. The academies however serve a far greater purpose and must not be nerfed into oblivion.

Be better, draft better, We could be the best drafters in history, but if a few clubs get getting the benefits they have, will it even matter how good we are?

Yes - if you draft well you will be good. That is true regardless of how compromised you feel the drafts are. Looking at our drafting above the F/S selections were easy. But nailing picks like 16 (Wilmot), 20 (Lohmann) and 31 (Morris) all the while targeting good FA’s and trade targets is how to get good. Add an average of 2-3 good players to your list each year and you’re laughing.

 

[randyzany]

Saints have some legitimate arguments about looking for ways to equalise the competition .

But big picture is it won't be at the expense of the northern academies.

The talent crisis is real. Unless the AFL can find more AFL standard players from Qld and NSW the national competition will be seriously compromised and in decline.

There is already a serious mismatch between the amount of money available to players and the number of talented players available.
This threatens to be a full blown crisis in the 2030s.

Birthrate falls in Australia’s biggest cities amid cost-of-living crisis, preliminary data shows

Outer-suburban and regional Australians increasingly likely to have more children per person than inner-city residents, report shows

www.theguardian.com

Are all native Queenslanders/New South Welshman only interested in playing pro footy if they're recruited by sides in their respective cities? I find it hard to believe that young players would forego hundreds of thousands of dollars a year just because they can't bear the thought of living in Melbourne or another city outside of Queensland/NSW.

They can always do what the likes of Treloar have done in reverse and sign just for 2 years at a Vic/SA/WA club and if they are not settled into those cities by then, they can force their way back to NSW/Queensland assuming they're good enough to attract attention from one of the clubs in those states.

I'm just not sold by the claim that potential footy talent from Queensland and NSW needs to be drafted by local clubs in those states to attract them to footy in the first place; it just seems like an excuse to justify the existence of these academies and their exclusive access to the most talented young players from their state every year.

 

[Mat Mann]

You have to love a middling team whinging when they have fixed 90% of the issues. Literally how about for one second we wait to see how this new curve works rather than getting rid of every single pathway for players.

People whinging should literally go and travel to Sydney for instance and see how much of a league town it is, it's worse in schools. Yes it's improving and great but we are still decades away from being near parity if we ever get there. These academies help get players that would otherwise be lost to the game, Heeney wouldn't be playing if it weren't for the academy.

We may be in a position in a decade where we can roll back the academies etc but it's not now, you will need to learn to coexist, and it might help not blowing first rounders (which you have started to do better and that is fantastic). You are getting two of the bigger off contract players this off season too.

laughable, Swans have blown a heap of 1st rounders as well, as most teams do. Still, it's always only said about St Kilda, but never raised about the 8 clubs that didn't take Cripps in the same draft after Billings and Bontempelli.

Go look at Collingwood's drafting History

Jed Lamb
Dean Towers
Lewis Johnston
Zak Jones
Matthew Ling
Dylan Stephens
Logan McDonald
Braeden Campbell
Angus Sheldrick
Jacob Konstanty
Will Green

Some misses there