St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[bulldogs201616]

I think everyone can agree that it's time for changes. Sick of seeing other clubs benefit from F/S why the dogs have to settle for Sam Darcy.

 

[WillHayward]

Saints absolutely must finish bottom 5 this season.

A late season surge to 10th or 11th would be disastrous.

 

[The Punter]

Also this topic is mute because the father son isn’t going anywhere

Firstly, the word is moot. We're not having a silent debate.

Secondly, excellent attempt to shut down debate.

Thirdly, still no defence of the rule. It does nothing for the league. No one follows their team because of it. No one goes to a game because of it. All it does is entrench structural disadvantage based on dumb luck. There's a reason no other league in the world with a draft has it.

 

[Bill Crouse]

It makes sense that Bassat would be looking after his own team's interests.

Same way St Kilda weren't considering the fairness of the competition when they joined the raid of Brisbane's former first round picks for cents on the dollar in 2013.

Billy Longer? The guy you picked ahead of Toby Greene?
No, we weren't looking after our team's interests trading out Ben McEvoy for him.

 

[The Punter]

We traded pick 25 for Longer. He played 57 games. Average games played for pick 25: 70.

We may have raided (again complaining about rules playing by rules) but we traded cents, and cents is what we got back.

 

[JasRulz63]

Billy Longer? The guy you picked ahead of Toby Greene?
No, we weren't looking after our team's interests trading out Ben McEvoy for him.

Yep that's the one.

So your argument is that St Kilda at the time weren't trying to what was best for them, and instead doing what was best for Hawthorn? The premiership drought would make sense if that was the case.

We traded pick 25 for Longer. He played 57 games. Average games played for pick 25: 70.

We may have raided (again complaining about rules playing by rules) but we traded cents, and cents is what we got back.

You weren't trading for a player that would be out of the league after 57 games at the time. At the time he was a pick 8 two years prior, had captained Vic Metro and was U18 All-Australian. We wanted to keep him, but you got him for unders.

In the end it worked out fine for Brisbane. We used that pick on McStay who played 161 games for Brisbane, and then left for FA compensation used as points for Ashcroft. But at the time it was a pretty big loss for a team losing 4 other recent draftees at the time.

 

[The Punter]

You weren't trading for a player that would be out of the league after 57 games at the time. At the time he was a pick 8 two years prior, had captained Vic Metro and was U18 All-Australian. We wanted to keep him, but you got him for unders.

In the end it worked out fine for Brisbane. We used that pick on McStay who played 161 games for Brisbane, and then left for FA compensation used as points for Ashcroft. But at the time it was a pretty big loss for a team losing 4 other recent draftees at the time.

Fair enough. My gripe is not with clubs using existing rules to try to win a premiership, the sole reason clubs exist. It's with the league for enacting the rule.

 

[JasRulz63]

Fair enough. My gripe is not with clubs using existing rules to try to win a premiership, the sole reason clubs exist. It's with the league for enacting the rule.

Yeah I think that's completely fair. If I was a St Kilda supporter, I'd want Bassat advocating for my club too, so I actually don't have a lot of issue with his actions personally. Swann and co have been great at advocating for Brisbane.

 

[Elixuh]

We traded pick 25 for Longer. He played 57 games. Average games played for pick 25: 70.

We may have raided (again complaining about rules playing by rules) but we traded cents, and cents is what we got back.

It’s not our fault the Saints picked the bad player out of the go home 5. Im starting to see a pattern.

 

[Elixuh]

I do wonder whether St Kilda would behaving like this had Nick Riewoldt not showboated on the goal line in the grand final and got run down. I think they’d be less blamey if they had a flag to their name.

 

[botts]

I do wonder whether St Kilda would behaving like this had Nick Riewoldt not showboated on the goal line in the grand final and got run down. I think they’d be less blamey if they had a flag to their name.

Flog

 

[GenericUsername202]

Looking forward to St Kilda folding in the next 10 years. Maybe we could buy them out, and use them as our VFL team to develop our acadamy players.

 

[mighty_lions]

Firstly, the word is moot. We're not having a silent debate.

Secondly, excellent attempt to shut down debate.

Thirdly, still no defence of the rule. It does nothing for the league. No one follows their team because of it. No one goes to a game because of it. All it does is entrench structural disadvantage based on dumb luck. There's a reason no other league in the world with a draft has it.

its not changing, so stop complaining the rule is the same for everyone

 

[The Punter]

its not changing, so stop complaining the rule is the same for everyone

When same sex marriage was not permitted, the law was the same for everyone: you were able to marry any person of a different gender you wanted. We changed the law because it was unfair.

And I'll stop complaining when the rule is abolished. Not before.

 

[jumperfan]

Looking forward to St Kilda folding in the next 10 years. Maybe we could buy them out, and use them as our VFL team to develop our acadamy players.

With what money? You receive more funding from the AFL than us despite winning the premiership last year.

 

[mighty_lions]

When same sex marriage was not permitted, the law was the same for everyone: you were able to marry any person of a different gender you wanted. We changed the law because it was unfair.

And I'll stop complaining when the rule is abolished. Not before.

That would have to be the worst comparison ive ever heard

 

[Cleric]

F/S and NGAs are cyclical.
In the next 10 years St Kilda might get a half a dozen, while Brisbane get none. In the whole existence of the Crows we have only had one viable father so, and that's Max Michaelanny. He wasn't a top 10 pick, or highly fancied, and was bidded on higher than most expected by Sydney, but he is a good one.

We had to sit there and eat shit while Geelong got FS after FS, and flag after flag.
It is what it is. It may well be that Geelong dont get another good one for a decade, while the Crows get five.

The Northern Academies are different. The reality is that the increase in players coming out of the northern states are an addition to the traditional talent sources of SA, WA and Vic. Historically the northern states have taken their picks out of those states, watering down the available talent from those three states.
With the northern states now having the ability to take kids from their states, it leaves more of the talented kids from SA, WA and Vic on the boards for the rest of the states to take. It's not a nil sum game.

The issue isn't that the northern clubs get first crack of their academy kids, its that they get to have their cake and eat it at the same time. When their academies have the talent, they get first option at a discount rate, but when there's no talent in their academies, they then get to pick the eyes out of the best talent from the other states.
What should happen is that the northern clubs are forced to take more of their academy kids, even if they arnt as highly touted. They need to take the good with the bad. It will increase their efforts into talent Identification and development, as their lists will depend on it. It then allows kids from the traditional states more chance of getting the ability to stay home and play.

The other issue is that the AFL did the NGAs in a way that gave the Victorian clubs a better shot at it than the SA and WA clubs did. In SA and WA the AFL removed indigenous kids from the metro areas, while allowing Melbourne clubs to have access to indigenous kids in their metro areas. Hell, some clubs like North got access to Tasmanina metro indigenous kids. Not happy with that, the AFL also removed the country areas that had a history of producing indigenous talent from SA and WA as well. Remote areas like Port Lincoln were removed from the SA clubs, when its a seven hour drive from Adelaide.
That's the issue with the NGAs.

 

[mighty_lions]

F/S and NGAs are cyclical.
In the next 10 years St Kilda might get a half a dozen, while Brisbane get none. In the whole existence of the Crows we have only had one viable father so, and that's Max Michaelanny. He wasn't a top 10 pick, or highly fancied, and was bidded on higher than most expected by Sydney, but he is a good one.

We had to sit there and eat shit while Geelong got FS after FS, and flag after flag.
It is what it is. It may well be that Geelong dont get another good one for a decade, while the Crows get five.

The Northern Academies are different. The reality is that the increase in players coming out of the northern states are an addition to the traditional talent sources of SA, WA and Vic. Historically the northern states have taken their picks out of those states, watering down the available talent from those three states.
With the northern states now having the ability to take kids from their states, it leaves more of the talented kids from SA, WA and Vic on the boards for the rest of the states to take. It's not a nil sum game.

The issue isn't that the northern clubs get first crack of their academy kids, its that they get to have their cake and eat it at the same time. When their academies have the talent, they get first option at a discount rate, but when there's no talent in their academies, they then get to pick the eyes out of the best talent from the other states.
What should happen is that the northern clubs are forced to take more of their academy kids, even if they arnt as highly touted. They need to take the good with the bad. It will increase their efforts into talent Identification and development, as their lists will depend on it. It then allows kids from the traditional states more chance of getting the ability to stay home and play.

The other issue is that the AFL did the NGAs in a way that gave the Victorian clubs a better shot at it than the SA and WA kids. In SA and WA the SFL removed indigenous kids from the metro areas, while allowing Melbourne clubs to have access to indigenous kids in their metro areas. Hell, some clubs like North got access to Tasmanina metro indigenous kids. Not happy with that, the AFL also removed the country areas that had a history of producing indigenous talent from SA and WA as well. Remote areas like Port Lincoln were removed from the SA clubs, when its a seven hour drive from Adelaide.
That's the issue with the NGAs.

This is another terrible idea, what happens if we dont have any academies coming through, you just have to draft people no where near the level??? go and have a look at the entire Brisbane academy selections over a 13 year period that would be an horrendous team and then all the additional players that would be drafted on top of that

another dumb idea not thought out

 

[Dogflogger]

Dunno why Brisbane fans are so worked up to be honest, St kilda have had the bad luck of having no father sons of worth while also losing multiple premierships to teams that do. Not that hard to understand why the people in charge would hate that rule. And being a team that has a real hard time trading in anyone of note our only real way of getting better is to nail draft picks, So also not that hard to understand why the list managers and coaches hate to see their competition getting an abundance of discounted draftees.

This is all on the AFL for allowing this crap to keep going on, without trading a lot of assets no top 8 team should be getting a better draft haul than a bottom 4 team let alone a team who was just in a GF. Again this is the fault of the AFL and i don't blame any club for taking full advantage of the rules laid in front of them.

 

[GenericUsername202]

With what money? You receive more funding from the AFL than us despite winning the premiership last year.

Who gives a toss. We have a healthy cash reserve (thanks AFL), we're having record profits, record crowds, record memberships. We're literally the opposite of St Kilda at this point.

 

[mighty_lions]

Dunno why Brisbane fans are so worked up to be honest, St kilda have had the bad luck of having no father sons of worth while also losing multiple premierships to teams that do. Not that hard to understand why the people in charge would hate that rule. And being a team that has a real hard time trading in anyone of note our only real way of getting better is to nail draft picks, So also not that hard to understand why the list managers and coaches hate to see their competition getting an abundance of discounted draftees.

This is all on the AFL for allowing this crap to keep going on, without trading a lot of assets no top 8 team should be getting a better draft haul than a bottom 4 team let alone a team who was just in a GF. Again this is the fault of the AFL and i don't blame any club for taking full advantage of the rules laid in front of them.

the father son rule is not the reason why st Kilda is in the position they are in and its not the academies either, its an excuse that your fans have latched on to instead of looking internally

 

[Chip Scab1]

F/S and NGAs are cyclical.
In the next 10 years St Kilda might get a half a dozen, while Brisbane get none. In the whole existence of the Crows we have only had one viable father so, and that's Max Michaelanny. He wasn't a top 10 pick, or highly fancied, and was bidded on higher than most expected by Sydney, but he is a good one.

We had to sit there and eat shit while Geelong got FS after FS, and flag after flag.
It is what it is. It may well be that Geelong dont get another good one for a decade, while the Crows get five.

The Northern Academies are different. The reality is that the increase in players coming out of the northern states are an addition to the traditional talent sources of SA, WA and Vic. Historically the northern states have taken their picks out of those states, watering down the available talent from those three states.
With the northern states now having the ability to take kids from their states, it leaves more of the talented kids from SA, WA and Vic on the boards for the rest of the states to take. It's not a nil sum game.

The issue isn't that the northern clubs get first crack of their academy kids, its that they get to have their cake and eat it at the same time. When their academies have the talent, they get first option at a discount rate, but when there's no talent in their academies, they then get to pick the eyes out of the best talent from the other states.
What should happen is that the northern clubs are forced to take more of their academy kids, even if they arnt as highly touted. They need to take the good with the bad. It will increase their efforts into talent Identification and development, as their lists will depend on it. It then allows kids from the traditional states more chance of getting the ability to stay home and play.

The other issue is that the AFL did the NGAs in a way that gave the Victorian clubs a better shot at it than the SA and WA clubs did. In SA and WA the AFL removed indigenous kids from the metro areas, while allowing Melbourne clubs to have access to indigenous kids in their metro areas. Hell, some clubs like North got access to Tasmanina metro indigenous kids. Not happy with that, the AFL also removed the country areas that had a history of producing indigenous talent from SA and WA as well. Remote areas like Port Lincoln were removed from the SA clubs, when its a seven hour drive from Adelaide.
That's the issue with the NGAs.

Perfect! Did you not learn about Truganini at School? Thanks so much AFL.

 

[jumperfan]

Who gives a toss. We have a healthy cash reserve (thanks AFL), we're having record profits, record crowds, record memberships. We're literally the opposite of St Kilda at this point.

OK? So why do you care about one club wanting to even the draft system up? Shouldn't have any effect on you at all then.

 

[botts]

Looking forward to St Kilda folding in the next 10 years. Maybe we could buy them out, and use them as our VFL team to develop our acadamy players.

Fold like ya mum

 

[jumperfan]

the father son rule is not the reason why st Kilda is in the position they are in and its not the academies either, its an excuse that your fans have latched on to instead of looking internally

How are you still parroting this same nonsense after having the reality of the situation explained to you about 400 times over the past few weeks?