St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[WillHayward]

How will it make it fairer?

There will also be less talent available, is that an issue, especially as we head towards 20 teams.

Saints hoping we drag the rest of the comp down to their level and then they can be competitive.

I reckon ban all "interstate" players and teams and just go back to VFL.

Blues, Bombers and North fans are also supporting this submission.

 

[WillHayward]

you think it's just St Kilda wanting change?

Bombers, Blues and North are also right there with you on the picket line.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Fairer draft. I think that would be pretty evident if you cared to listen

Zero orange braincell supporters will never listen

And so will dumb arse Sydney flogs.

 

[mighty_lions]

Zero orange braincell supporters will never listen

your obsession with orange cats is rather weird

 

[Elixuh]

The only thing I’ve heard from the mighty saints supporters is they want to limit and reduce the pool of talent in the league and backtrack us to a more VFL centric draft which favours…wait for it…the VFL clubs.

Nothing is ever going to benefit or advantage the Saints, that is the sad and unfair truth. They’re always going to be disadvantaged within their own VFL market…which is where the hurt really is for them…not the academies…The afl don’t want any team to be a basket case but they also couldn’t care less if certain teams do nothing more than survive.

 

[beside the seaside]

Happy to be a vic club that poach others though
Henry kicked a nice goal today

Bizarre post. You've never traded for a player before? Your best three yesterday were from other clubs.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Bizarre post. You've never traded for a player before? Your best three yesterday were from other clubs.

Talking about nga
Jackson and Bolton won flags for their clubs before they left and netted their clubs 5 first rd picks between them.
Clark wasn’t a top 10 pick and the cats invested nothing in to him.
Henry we heavily invested time and resources in our nga and his future endeavours and was top 10 in the draft
The bright lights of st Kilda attracted him
And you poached him for a packet of chips.
Poor st Kilda also poached our club champion Bradley hill.
It’s not as bad as the saints board say it is that’s all

 

[The Punter]

Why do some St Kilda fans think the abolishment of the Victorian country zones in 1986 suddenly turned it into an "uncompromised draft" era for the following 20 years? You're not the first I've seen suggest this, but if you look into it then you'll find it's not true at all. The late 80s, 90s and early 2000s are probably the MOST compromised years in terms of drafting. West Coast were given exclusive/priority rights to all WAFL players for many years (even while winning flags), Brisbane were given exclusive/priority rights to SANFL, QAFL & NTFL players, Adelaide were later given exclusive rights to all SANFL players for several years, Fremantle were given 20+ pre-draft selections as well as zone access to WAFL players for several years, Port Adelaide were given zone access to SANFL players for several years.

It was also the era in which priority picks became really prominent and that obviously compromises the draft by pushing other picks back in the draft order. The priority picks allowed struggling clubs to speed up the rebuild process by acquiring multiple top end picks in the same year e.g. St Kilda finished dead last in 2000 and were able to get five top 5 picks in Riewoldt + Koschitzke in 2000, Ball + Clarke in 2001 and Goddard in 2002 over three drafts instead of just getting the standard three picks in those years. Two years later, the Saints find themselves in a prelim and lose by a single kick to the eventual premiers.

The truth is those years were anything but uncompromised. Just because it fits the narrative that the Saints are currently trying to push, doesn't mean it's true. In reality, what that era of drafting actually shows is the AFL is able to manufacture more equal on field outcomes by heavily compromising the draft.

There's some good points in here, but the cat is belled in the second paragraph. Automatic priority picks.

The objective of the draft is to provide access to the best talent to the poorest teams. Automatic priority picks don't compromise the objective of the draft: they accelerate it. Every team in the 2000s made a prelim.

As I have posted in other areas before

St Kilda

2000-2002
3 poor years
2 years with five wins or less
Access to draft: 5 top 3 picks

2013-2015
3 poor years
2 years with five wins or less
Access to draft: 2 top 3 picks

The post 2012 system just does not provide the access to the draft it used to unless the AFL arbitrarily decides to give a club access.

So the entirety of my proposal to fix the broken system is:

• restoration of automatic priority picks for fewer than six wins
• free agency rights to come in at 6 years
• 25% increase in salary cap immediately (with commensurate increase in revenue)
• no commensurate increase in salary floor
• abolition of the father-son rule
• abolition of NGA academies
• one northern academy selection per northern club per year outside of the draft

 

[Mat Mann]

Happy to be a vic club that poach others though
Henry kicked a nice goal today

Jackson went ok too. What's your point?
You forced the Acres trade with Hill, in the end, even he didn't want to stay home.

We have 3 SA kids being heavily courted by both SA clubs, but hey it's only a "go home" thing when its a Vic club doing it

 

[RonnieRaven]

Jackson went ok too. What's your point?
You forced the Acres trade with Hill, in the end, even he didn't want to stay home.

We have 3 SA kids being heavily courted by both SA clubs, but hey it's only a "go home" thing when its a Vic club doing it

Henry was a top 10 NGA who we invested in and saints get the rewards of.
Jackson not a nga.
This is just another example of the saints crying poor whilst neglecting the benefits they get which is the premise of the thread.

 

[The Punter]

Henry was a top 10 NGA who we invested in and saints get the rewards of.
Jackson not a nga.
This is just another example of the saints crying poor whilst neglecting the benefits they get which is the premise of the thread.

What picks did Fremantle use in 2019 to get up to pick 9 to select Henry? Fremantle had the two picks immediately previously before pick 9 and selected Young and Serong.

 

[Mat Mann]

Henry was a top 10 NGA who we invested in and saints get the rewards of.
Jackson not a nga.
This is just another example of the saints crying poor whilst neglecting the benefits they get

You realise that doesn't entitle you to rights on him forever, he's not a slave... we didn't kidnap him
same as Hill, whom I might add, you got very good value for
you said that the Saints were a club that liked to poach others, Jackson and Bolton are just 2 examples of Freo doing the same thing
But aside, you got to select a top 10 NGA player, we didn't, we could not select Cam McKenzie. Ohh look, poor Freo

on the side, why were Freo fans booing Ross yesterday, considering you sacked him, very wierd

 

[mighty_lions]

on the side, why were Freo fans booing Ross yesterday, considering you sacked him, very wierd

because hes weird

 

[RonnieRaven]

What picks did Fremantle use in 2019 to get up to pick 9 to select Henry? Fremantle had the two picks immediately previously before pick 9 and selected Young and Serong.

We actually went in to a negative and our following years first got deducted points and lost our top 10 pick
2020 we should have had pick 7
It got moved to 11 then their was 2 academy selections and a free agent compo pic that pushed us out to 14
But we didn’t whinge Wallsy dug in and dragged Chapman odriscoll walker and Treacy out of the fire of the 2020 draft

 

[The Punter]

We actually went in to a negative and our following years first got deducted points and lost our top 10 pick
2020 we should have had pick 7
It got moved to 11 then their was 2 academy selections and a free agent compo pic that pushed us out to 14
But we didn’t whinge Wallsy dug in and dragged Chapman odriscoll walker and Treacy out of the fire of the 2020 draft

This is an answer that does not contain the answer to what I asked, which was about what picks were used in 2019.

Whatever picks you used, you didn't need to trade with Carlton to acquire the pick, which is only way it would have been fair value.

 

[RonnieRaven]

You realise that doesn't entitle you to rights on him forever, he's not a slave... we didn't kidnap him
same as Hill, whom I might add, you got very good value for
you said that the Saints were a club that liked to poach others, Jackson and Bolton are just 2 examples of Freo doing the same thing
But aside, you got to select a top 10 NGA player, we didn't, we could not select Cam McKenzie. Ohh look, poor Freo

on the side, why were Freo fans booing Ross yesterday, considering you sacked him, very wierd

Yep poor freo just like saints but we aren’t kicking and screaming about it we are playing the hand we dealt.

On the side, I have no idea why the freo faithful booed our greatest ever coach.
I don’t condone that behaviour.
What’s RTB ever done to them?!
(besides the freo women staffer she probably has a right)

 

[RonnieRaven]

This is an answer that does not contain the answer to what I asked, which was about what picks were used in 2019.

Whatever picks you used, you didn't need to trade with Carlton to acquire the pick, which is only way it would have been fair value.

It was more than what saints paid for him.
Carlton would have made the trade just about
sos was just playing funny buggers because we got serong.
He bid on three players
Henry wasn’t rated before 18 even with %20 discount we still payed overs

 

[The Punter]

Can't find that information anywhere.

 

[Elixuh]

There's some good points in here, but the cat is belled in the second paragraph. Automatic priority picks.

The objective of the draft is to provide access to the best talent to the poorest teams. Automatic priority picks don't compromise the objective of the draft: they accelerate it. Every team in the 2000s made a prelim.

As I have posted in other areas before

St Kilda

2000-2002
3 poor years
2 years with five wins or less
Access to draft: 5 top 3 picks

2013-2015
3 poor years
2 years with five wins or less
Access to draft: 2 top 3 picks

The post 2012 system just does not provide the access to the draft it used to unless the AFL arbitrarily decides to give a club access.

So the entirety of my proposal to fix the broken system is:

• restoration of automatic priority picks for fewer than six wins
• free agency rights to come in at 6 years
• 25% increase in salary cap immediately (with commensurate increase in revenue)
• no commensurate increase in salary floor
• abolition of the father-son rule
• abolition of NGA academies
• one northern academy selection per northern club per year outside of the draft

The draft is compromised.

Even if you remove academies, fs and priority picks it’s still compromised.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Nah mate. Your president made sure clubs will pay 'fair' price for priority access and that means picks beyond 55 have no value when it comes to matching bids. So if Fincher is bid on with, say, pick 15 in the draft, then that equates to 1112 points. Apply the 10% NGA discount and St Kilda will need to have enough 2025 picks to cover the required 1000 points in order to match the bid. St Kilda's natural second (23) and third round (41) picks won't be enough to cover the required points and fourth round picks don't hold any value anymore.

Further complicating the problem is the Saints traded away their 2025 second round pick last year so they're approximately 780 points short of matching a bid for Fincher (as it stands) and that's the equivalent of pick 19. That's assuming Fincher is bid on at pick 15 - if he's bid on earlier in the draft then it gets really diffcult for the Saints and they may have to trade away their natural pick 5 or give away several future draft picks.

So get ready for your club to engage in plenty of point accumulating trades this year. You're either going to lose picks, players or maybe even both in order to keep Fincher. Just remember you can thank your president when you're reviewing some of the confusing/one-sided trades that your club will complete later this year.

Thats bloody rich coming from a Gold Coast fan

 

[Dangerousfield]

You can really tell which people know anything about St Kilda and flogs who don't.

Why would anyone bother knowing anything about St.Kilda? Just a drag on the comp

 

[The Punter]

The draft is compromised.

Even if you remove academies, fs and priority picks it’s still compromised.

Just for clarity

The objective of the draft is compromised. That is giving the worst teams the best access to the best talent. If you want to do something else with the draft, other forms of player recruitment all work better than a draft. A draft system has one objective.

This is why I advocate for northern academy access outside of the draft, because I can see a league benefit to them. The father-son rule offers no benefit to the competition.

And I don't want priority picks removed. I want the AFL's discretion on handing them out removed.

 

[Dangerousfield]

The draft is supposed to be a form of equalisation designed to help clubs that are struggling on field the club that finishes last should have the opportunity to pick the best player , the bidding system the afl have is absolutely laughable

Free Agency is a big fairness distorter and it strongly favours the big Vic clubs. The often played Go Home Card another that favours Vic clubs, albeit we have done very nicely of late

 

[Elixuh]

Just for clarity

The objective of the draft is compromised. That is giving the worst teams the best access to the best talent. If you want to do something else with the draft, other forms of player recruitment all work better than a draft. A draft system has one objective.

This is why I advocate for northern academy access outside of the draft, because I can see a league benefit to them. The father-son rule offers no benefit to the competition.

And I don't want priority picks removed. I want the AFL's discretion on handing them out removed.

I don’t know how it would work outside the draft nor why it’s necessary.

If the academies didn’t exist the majority of draftees from northern academies wouldn’t exist. The top end picks would largely either not be top end picks or not exist. Eg Heeney would be playing nrl. Granted there will be examples like Nick Riewoldt who are simply good enough but you get 1 of those types of every X number of other draftees the academies produce. The Lions are a good example in that Eric Hipwood is our highest drafted player at 14. He likely would never have made it to the afl system without the academies. Likely a back of the draft project player at best.

So it’s really an optics thing. If I am a team that holds pick 37 and bid on Kiddy Coleman and it’s matched and then I take Joe Bloggs at pick 38. If the academies hadn’t existed I’d still be taking Joe Bloggs just with pick 37.

 

[The Punter]

I don’t know how it would work outside the draft nor why it’s necessary.

If the academies didn’t exist the majority of draftees from northern academies wouldn’t exist. The top end picks would largely either not be top end picks or not exist. Eg Heeney would be playing nrl. Granted there will be examples like Nick Riewoldt who are simply good enough but you get 1 of those types of every X number of other draftees the academies produce. The Lions are a good example in that Eric Hipwood is our highest drafted player at 14. He likely would never have made it to the afl system without the academies. Likely a back of the draft project player at best.

So it’s really an optics thing. If I am a team that holds pick 37 and bid on Kiddy Coleman and it’s matched and then I take Joe Bloggs at pick 38. If the academies hadn’t existed I’d still be taking Joe Bloggs just with pick 37.

But from a fairness point of view, one club has access to anyone it develops as a junior and another club does not. What you have described is an argument for the entire abolition of the draft. And who decides who is not going to pursue AFL without the academies? I've described what I think is the most fair way the draft remains and restored to it's objective of sending the best talent to the worst teams while maintaining the academies. But having three top fifteen picks in one year all through academy rights without any compensation (and the bloggs example is an explanation for some level of fairness but not an example of compensation) is unacceptable.

It's important the northern teams have home grown stars. It's not important they realise maximum return on all players who might be persuaded to play AFL because they were supported through a local academy in their junior years.

And it's really not important that sons play at the same clubs as their fathers.