St Kilda complain about priority draft access in Oct 2024; now set to gain priority access to a first / second round pick via their NGA access

[mighty_lions]

So the solution is to make finals every year?

You're also not addressing the point of the post, which is that poorly performing Victorian teams like North can draft largely from their home state (which appears to greatly assist retention), whereas without academies, poorly performing NSW/Queensland sides can't.

This bozo doesnt understand we dont have flight risks picks leaving because we haven't been down the bottom and haven't been drafting them

 

[GenericUsername202]

The acadamies aren't going. Even AFL house told St Kilda to get over it. Also, looking forward to Brisbane Lions legend Luke Hodge's son playing for the Lions. By the way, any hawks fan upset over this should probably watch more games on 7. Seems like Luke Hodge is a bigger brisbane fan than hawthorn these days

 

[Philhawk]

So the solution is to make finals every year?

You're also not addressing the point of the post, which is that poorly performing Victorian teams like North can draft largely from their home state (which appears to greatly assist retention), whereas without academies, poorly performing NSW/Queensland sides can't.

Winning breeds a culture of success, making players more keen to stay. Doesn’t matter what state the player is from.

As for your second point, I do see where you’re coming from but don’t believe it’s that simple.

North can draft local - but for a team like they have crying out for talls, it’s not that simple when Walter was clearly the best tall that year with a gap to the next best. By saying “you can simply draft local”, it’s not that simple when there’s so much talent coming from the academies that are simply unavailable to the bottom teams.

 

[mighty_lions]

Winning breeds a culture of success, making players more keen to stay. Doesn’t matter what state the player is from.

As for your second point, I do see where you’re coming from but don’t believe it’s that simple.

North can draft local - but for a team like they have crying out for talls, it’s not that simple when Walter was clearly the best tall that year with a gap to the next best. By saying “you can simply draft local”, it’s not that simple when there’s so much talent coming from the academies that are simply unavailable to the bottom teams.

Logan Morris went at 31 in that draft, draft better

 

[Philhawk]

Logan Morris went at 31 in that draft, draft better

So because he’s Victorian he clearly wants to return home, right?

 

[JasRulz63]

Winning breeds a culture of success, making players more keen to stay. Doesn’t matter what state the player is from.

As for your second point, I do see where you’re coming from but don’t believe it’s that simple.

North can draft local - but for a team like they have crying out for talls, it’s not that simple when Walter was clearly the best tall that year with a gap to the next best. By saying “you can simply draft local”, it’s not that simple when there’s so much talent coming from the academies that are simply unavailable to the bottom teams.

While I get your point re Jed Walter, if North had used their picks on the best key forwards from Victoria they'd have ended up with Caddy and Morris.

 

[mighty_lions]

So because he’s Victorian he clearly wants to return home, right?

I didnt say anything about returning home you are unhinged, and who knows what will happen

 

[Philhawk]

I didnt say anything about returning home you are unhinged, and who knows what will happen

But I thought there was a huge go home risk with Victorians? Why hasn’t that been the case since 2019?

 

[Philhawk]

While I get your point re Jed Walter, if North had used their picks on the best key forwards from Victoria they'd have ended up with Caddy and Morris.

True, but we can’t be completely revisionist come draft. Morris has done well now in a good system but I doubt he was top 10 on any board at the time. Caddy might be different.

 

[Ian Dunross]

What was your club's excuse prior to free agency, FS and NGA?
100 years with 1 premiership and plenty of wooden spoons.

The simple fact is that it's easy for St Kilda to cling on to excuses as to why they are an unsuccessful club.
It's always been a poor club and it always will be.

Your club has won 3 flags in nearly 70 years. You can dial down the hubris.

 

[paulige]

Got it - and how many have you lost since being in the finals (and competent) since 2019? Additionally, how does that compare to poorly performing teams like St Kilda?

So all’s well and good as long as we remain in the top 8… forever? Is that sustainable?

We’ve had the perfect storm, a series of small miracles that see’s us where we are now. Making the perfect appointments (Fages, Swan, etc), nailing almost every draft (the trading of Pick 2 for 3 and 17, Clug and Berry, a classic example), trading first round picks on talents like Charlie, Neale, rehabilitating players like McCarthy, bargain basement gets like Lyons…. And of course once this is all in full swing we’re making the top 4, and able to attract talents in Daniher and Dunkley via FA.

This doesn’t last forever. One day we’ll drop away again, and the vultures will be circling ready to pick the bones clean. The academies will (hopefully) see that we don’t go full basketcase.

It remains a fact that for the foreseeable future, the majority of our list will come from interstate. This cannot be seen as anything other than a disadvantage.

 

[Philhawk]

So all’s well and good as long as we remain in the top 8… forever? Is that sustainable?

We’ve had the perfect storm, a series of small miracles that see’s us where we are now. Making the perfect appointments (Fages, Swan, etc), nailing almost every draft (the trading of Pick 2 for 3 and 17, Clug and Berry, a classic example), trading first round picks on talents like Charlie, Neale, rehabilitating players like McCarthy, bargain basement gets like Lyons…. And of course once this is all in full swing we’re making the top 4, and able to attract talents in Daniher and Dunkley via FA.

This doesn’t last forever. One day we’ll drop away again, and the vultures will be circling ready to pick the bones clean. The academies will (hopefully) see that we don’t go full basketcase.

It remains a fact that for the foreseeable future, the majority of our list will come from interstate. This cannot be seen as anything other than a disadvantage.

I agree with the majority of what you’re saying, but I’m not sure if you’re seeing the middle ground.

Yes, while you’re successful, it’s always easy to retain top talent.

No, you won’t be successful forever.

But can you see how it’s massively impacting poorly performing, smaller Victorian teams like North and St Kilda who haven’t had either the success or size to retain/attract top talent?

If we can’t concede that there’s a problem, then this will only go in circles.

I don’t have a solution. I do think there’s enormous benefits for having academies - run by the AFL. But something needs to change. Perhaps local academy kids are only eligible to be drafted by their team if their affiliated club didn’t make finals the year before?

 

[paulige]

So because he’s Victorian he clearly wants to return home, right?

Why do you take such an absolutist view of things?

No one has ever claimed that every single player from interstate wants to return home. That is ludicrous, and you’re being disingenuous to suggest it.

We are arguing the issue that those from interstate have a far greater tendency to be drawn to home, and how this places clubs such as Brisbane who must draft them, at a distinct disadvantage. It’s the law of numbers.

 

[paulige]

While I get your point re Jed Walter, if North had used their picks on the best key forwards from Victoria they'd have ended up with Caddy and Morris.

Set for a decade!

 

[mighty_lions]

But I thought there was a huge go home risk with Victorians? Why hasn’t that been the case since 2019?

we have not had access to top 10 picks since 2019 you absolute potato

 

[paulige]

I agree with the majority of what you’re saying, but I’m not sure if you’re seeing the middle ground.

Yes, while you’re successful, it’s always easy to retain top talent.

No, you won’t be successful forever.

But can you see how it’s massively impacting poorly performing, smaller Victorian teams like North and St Kilda who haven’t had either the success or size to retain/attract top talent?

If we can’t concede that there’s a problem, then this will only go in circles.

I don’t have a solution. I do think there’s enormous benefits for having academies - run by the AFL. But something needs to change. Perhaps local academy kids are only eligible to be drafted by their team if their affiliated club didn’t make finals the year before?

I don’t think the academies are what is holding North and St Kilda back. They need to start by finding their own Fages and Swan. Then hope for some more miracles.

Regarding your last point, the AFL doesn’t want to. I imagine more restrictions like the ones you’ve suggested will come in once the talent stream is consistent (e.g. average of 6-7 draftees per year). Once that’s happening and there are proportionally a higher number of QLD’er in the talent pool, I can see the academy benefits being ‘watered down’. Maybe something like a maximum 3 players inside the top 25 in any 3-year period, so if GC clean up like they did last year (or was it 2023?), any other top 25 picks for 2 years would be up for grabs.

Something like that would be fair enough at that point, I just don’t think we’re anywhere near that point yet - and naturally I’d hope things don’t change, for the benefit of my own club. They just have to go gently enough that clubs are still incentivised to pump resources into the academies.

 

[Elixuh]

Got it - and how many have you lost since being in the finals (and competent) since 2019? Additionally, how does that compare to poorly performing teams like St Kilda?

What’re you arguing exactly? Flick mechanisms on and off based on where a team is? Always be bad? Always be good? Makes no sense.

 

[Elixuh]

So the solution is to make finals every year?

You're also not addressing the point of the post, which is that poorly performing Victorian teams like North can draft largely from their home state (which appears to greatly assist retention), whereas without academies, poorly performing NSW/Queensland sides can't.

Re St Kilda, which of their recent high draftees has been rumoured to be considering leaving? One of the ones they drafted from interstate (NWM).

It’s because there is no serious argument against the points you’ve made.

 

[Elixuh]

I’m actually willing to share an initiative I’ve spent a lot of time considering which will help out the struggling lowly Victorian teams.

Everyone plays everyone once. Then the competition splits. Each of the northern clubs nominate one afl quality academy prospect who is then offered up as tribute.

The spud teams down the bottom then play a series of matches for these players in the backend of the season. At the conclusion of the game the academy prospect joins their list for free.

Conceptually it’s just like the spoon bowl games, eg the Harley Reid cup. Except more lowly teams can get involved and receive welfare.

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

Daniher and Dunkley were both Sydney father sons who didn't want to play in Sydney.

Both were Victorian’s who requested trades to Brisbane.

 

[Chip Scab1]

If 50% of the talent pool were QLD’ers, and we were benefitting from all the advantages that come with that, there would be an uproar.

And the opposite is occurring, and it’s crickets.

Go figure.

You won the flag, coming off 3 20 years ago. Little bit different.

 

[VinnieB]

Your club has won 3 flags in nearly 70 years. You can dial down the hubris.

Very selective on years, aren't you ?
Very weak, just like your club.
How many since we've both been in the competition? Or, how many since it was the AFL?

150 year and you still can't get your shit together. But it's everyone else's fault.
Next, $12m over 7 years for a ruckman......

Can see thus ending badly, but once again, you and your club will be blaming everyone else, because you were forced to pay an incredible amount to get a player to show some interest in St Kilda. A player who probably couldn't care less about the Saints, but will sleep well knowing he is how much cash he has locked in for 7 years.

Fancy paying a guy 50%+ more than your next highest player, when he won't even be your best player.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Very selective on years, aren't you ?
Very weak, just like your club.
How many since we've both been in the competition? Or, how many since it was the AFL?

150 year and you still can't get your shit together. But it's everyone else's fault.
Next, $12m over 7 years for a ruckman......

Can see thus ending badly, but once again, you and your club will be blaming everyone else, because you were forced to pay an incredible amount to get a player to show some interest in St Kilda. A player who probably couldn't care less about the Saints, but will sleep well knowing he is how much cash he has locked in for 7 years.

Fancy paying a guy 50%+ more than your next highest player, when he won't even be your best player.

No one cares about what happened 100 years ago mate. Get a life.

 

[VinnieB]

No one cares about what happened 100 years ago mate. Get a life.

You specifically brought up 70 years. Weak, as expected.

The fact is 150 years and you still can’t make your club work.

What about 50 years? 30 years?
Your club is the one who keeps complaining. The Saints add nothing to the competition, other than whining each year, and now about to ge themselves into more trouble.

 

[Elixuh]

Both were Victorian’s who requested trades to Brisbane.

Daniher was a FA and Dunkley was escaping an abusive work environment.